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Forums - General Discussion - Muslim Woman Strangles and Stabbs Daughter 40 Times to Exorcise Her

Seriously just WTF?



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Honestly I know of the problems within Islam that lead to things sort of like this. But in this womans case it was clearly mental I know of people who said Jesus told them to kill themselves. Or that Mother earth did or their dead mother. I have heard several cases outside of Islam where people have become convinced to commit suicide or kill others either hearing voices or getting strong violent urges.

Unfortunetly there is little that you can do to prevent these cases. Unless you diagnose the problem early enough that family should have staged an intervention and gotten the women mental help. But honestly this is a common occurance and most people do not get the help they need in time to prevent these things from happening.

Honestly I don't think this women is evil or should be killed or such. However I do think she should be confined for her own safety and the safety of those around her. She should recieve treatment and mental help until she dies. She did not appear to be doing this of her own free will, she is mentally incapable of taking responsability for her actions.

I have never been in the situation myself (Hearing voices or having an over whelming urge to commit a crime) but as someone with a mental disability I have met many with those struggles. I realize what she did was horrible but you can't say (Send her to meet satan) she was obviously mentally disturbed.



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:

I guess so :B

But really, it all comes down to what you define as religious fanaticism. If you describe it as taking your beliefs to a point where you take action on them in counter-social ways (such as Ghandi's fast), then I believe it is fine so long as it is properly directed. If you define religious fanaticism to be any form of violent behavior in the name of religion then for the most part I can only agree with you that it is counter-positive.

Of course, if you want, we could instead stay with a vague definition of it all :P

Ghandi's actions can't be considered religious fanatism, because he wasn't acting in the name of any religion (I'm not even sure what religion he followed). Those actions were politcally motivated. When I think of religious fanatisicm, I think of hings like the Crusades, or the bombing of abortion clinics. Or Westboro Baptist Church.

The Crusades were politcally motivated to export europes violence outside of europe since the person being invaded, even if they won the war, suffered MASSIVE economic losses and there were a number of "poor lords" and proffesional soldiers at this point just rareing for combat and gains through war were always far greater then through peace.  (Since looting was allowed.)

The Westboro Baptist Church's entire goal is the banning of gay marriage.  Which would be a political motivation.

 

Aside from that.  Gahndi was a Hindu who believed in the core of every religion was good.  Gahndi's response to you would be....

"As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side."

Religious reason were the drivign force of the Crusades (whether they were just a pretext used by those in power is besides the point, but it was the primary motivation of the common people).

Why does Westboro Baptist Church want to ban same sex marriage? Is it not due to religious reasons? Is religion not their primary motivation?

And Ghandi was really wrong about that. I'd say it's the other way around.

And Martin Luther King's main pretext for making the arguement for equality was religion.

Aside from that... your basically calling Gahndi's entire nonviolent peace movement a lie in that case sicne that was the basis of his entire movement.  His driving force you could say.

Though i'm not surprised as you and Gahndi are pretty diametrically apposed philosphy wise.

I just find it funny you'd feel the audacity to just outright say "Gahndi was wrong".  On the one hand someone usually considered one of the top 25 or so greatest people ever who had spent a long time of his life studying all religions.  Versus a bitter romanian teenage atheist who hasn't been expirenced to much more then one religion and who could be seen as a "tad" bit biased considering their own personal situation.

No actual attempt at a quote from another philosopher or antyhing.  Just "Gahndi's wrong!"



Joelcool7 said:

Honestly I know of the problems within Islam that lead to things sort of like this.


Explain further.



Kasz216 said:

And Martin Luther King's main pretext for making the arguement for equality was religion.

Aside from that... your basically calling Gahndi's entire nonviolent peace movement a lie in that case sicne that was the basis of his entire movement.  His driving force you could say.

Though i'm not surprised as you and Gahndi are pretty diametrically apposed philosphy wise.

I just find it funny you'd feel the audacity to just outright say "Gahndi was wrong".  On the one hand someone usually considered one of the top 25 or so greatest people ever who had spent a long time of his life studying all religions.  Versus a bitter romanian teenage atheist who hasn't been expirenced to much more then one religion and who could be seen as a "tad" bit biased considering their own personal situation.

No actual attempt at a quote from another philosopher or antyhing.  Just "Gahndi's wrong!"

'Ghandi is wrong' is all I really have time to say right now.

Out of curiosity, who would you say I'm like 'philosphy-wise'? I'm quite curious, since it will say a lot about the image you have of myself (and considering the way you usually refer to me, I'm expecting someone nasty).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:

I guess so :B

But really, it all comes down to what you define as religious fanaticism. If you describe it as taking your beliefs to a point where you take action on them in counter-social ways (such as Ghandi's fast), then I believe it is fine so long as it is properly directed. If you define religious fanaticism to be any form of violent behavior in the name of religion then for the most part I can only agree with you that it is counter-positive.

Of course, if you want, we could instead stay with a vague definition of it all :P

Ghandi's actions can't be considered religious fanatism, because he wasn't acting in the name of any religion (I'm not even sure what religion he followed). Those actions were politcally motivated. When I think of religious fanatisicm, I think of hings like the Crusades, or the bombing of abortion clinics. Or Westboro Baptist Church.

What about martin luther king? Would you consider his mission politically motivated, or religiously motivated. Keep in mind one of his biggest quotes: "I have seen the promised land".

What about George W. Bush Jr.? Was he politically motivated, or religiously motivated? He claimed he was on a 'mission from God'.

Don't dodge buddy :)

I'm not doging anything. Just making a point.

Okay, well Martin Luther King? Strictly religiously motivated or strictly politically motivated, or both?
In my eyes he was a fanatic, just a reasonable one. He took what he believed and applied it passionately. Aren't fanatics pationate, at least? Could we agree about that?

Yes, they sure are passionate. So passionate that they could commit murder.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:

I'm not doging anything. Just making a point.

Okay, well Martin Luther King? Strictly religiously motivated or strictly politically motivated, or both?
In my eyes he was a fanatic, just a reasonable one. He took what he believed and applied it passionately. Aren't fanatics pationate, at least? Could we agree about that?

Yes, they sure are passionate. So passionate that they could commit murder.

And liberate a race :D
See? I'm just trying to show you there are two sides to a coin! Look at the other side of the coin! :B

? I don't get what you're tryign to say. Don't know of any religious fanatic who 'liberated a race'.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

And Martin Luther King's main pretext for making the arguement for equality was religion.

Aside from that... your basically calling Gahndi's entire nonviolent peace movement a lie in that case sicne that was the basis of his entire movement.  His driving force you could say.

Though i'm not surprised as you and Gahndi are pretty diametrically apposed philosphy wise.

I just find it funny you'd feel the audacity to just outright say "Gahndi was wrong".  On the one hand someone usually considered one of the top 25 or so greatest people ever who had spent a long time of his life studying all religions.  Versus a bitter romanian teenage atheist who hasn't been expirenced to much more then one religion and who could be seen as a "tad" bit biased considering their own personal situation.

No actual attempt at a quote from another philosopher or antyhing.  Just "Gahndi's wrong!"

'Ghandi is wrong' is all I really have time to say right now.

Out of curiosity, who would you say I'm like 'philosphy-wise'? I'm quite curious, since it will say a lot about the image you have of myself (and considering the way you usually refer to me, I'm expecting someone nasty).

 It's pretty simple really, and not anything I think you'd disagree with... it's worth noting that Gahdni's entire movement was based on Satya... what is Satya?  It's Truth, according to Ghandi, what is Truth?

Truth = God.

Gahndi's entire movement was based on his religious faith.

 

Aside from that... lets compare with Gahndi.

Gahndi: Relgions are inherently good.   You: Religions are inherently bad.

Gahndi: "Supplication, worship, prayer are no superstition; they are acts more real than the acts of eating, drinking, sitting or walking. It is no exaggeration to say that they alone are real, all else is unreal."    You: I mean do I even need something here?

Gahdni: People are in inherently good.   You: People are inherently self interested and therefore "bad".

Gahndi: "Nothing is impossible for pure love"   You: Obviously don't believe that.

Gahdni: believed in the smallest amount of government possible.  You: For huge overarching governments

Gahndi: Anti gun control.  "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest"  You: As far as i can tell would like to see all guns banned

Gahndi: deal with discrimination and other issues with nonviolence.  You: have a wide stretch of laws to rigidly prevent any kind of bigotry.  (Except religious bigotry.)

Gahndi: I had learnt at the outset not to carry on public work with borrowed money. One could rely on people's promises in most matters, except in respect of money.  You: Seem to be a pretty clear Keynsian.

Ghandi: To attain to perfect purity one has to become absolutely passion-free in thought, speech and action; to rise above the opposing currents of love and hatred, attachment and repulsion.  You: believe in a passioned view of things rather then looking at things purely logically.

All said though, your current bigotry towards religion is clearly due to your own situation where you are an atheist but afraid to mention it to your family.  It's a fairly common way for religious bigotry to be born out.  Though it makes no more sense then someone who hates black people because he was jumped by some black people.

When it comes to your own situation, Gahndi would say to tell your parents the truth and non-violently accept all the consequences that comes with it.



padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:

I'm not doging anything. Just making a point.

Okay, well Martin Luther King? Strictly religiously motivated or strictly politically motivated, or both?
In my eyes he was a fanatic, just a reasonable one. He took what he believed and applied it passionately. Aren't fanatics pationate, at least? Could we agree about that?

Yes, they sure are passionate. So passionate that they could commit murder.

And liberate a race :D
See? I'm just trying to show you there are two sides to a coin! Look at the other side of the coin! :B

? I don't get what you're tryign to say. Don't know of any religious fanatic who 'liberated a race'.

The black people were liberated from racism after a movement largely driven by Martin Luther King. Granted the black people of America did it themselves, but they drew great inspiration from one man and that was MLK. I don't see where you're coming from though...

Except, Martin Luther King was not a religious fanatic.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:

'Ghandi is wrong' is all I really have time to say right now.

Out of curiosity, who would you say I'm like 'philosphy-wise'? I'm quite curious, since it will say a lot about the image you have of myself (and considering the way you usually refer to me, I'm expecting someone nasty).

 It's pretty simple really, and not anything I think you'd disagree with... it's worth noting that Gahdni's entire movement was based on Satya... what is Satya?  It's Truth, according to Ghandi, what is Truth?

Truth = God.

Gahndi's entire movement was based on his religious faith.

 

Aside from that... lets compare with Gahndi.

Gahndi: Relgions are inherently good.   You: Religions are inherently bad.

Gahndi: "Supplication, worship, prayer are no superstition; they are acts more real than the acts of eating, drinking, sitting or walking. It is no exaggeration to say that they alone are real, all else is unreal."    You: I mean do I even need something here?

Gahdni: People are in inherently good.   You: People are inherently self interested and therefore "bad".

Gahndi: "Nothing is impossible for pure love"   You: Obviously don't believe that.

Gahdni: believed in the smallest amount of government possible.  You: For huge overarching governments

Gahndi: Anti gun control.  "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest"  You: As far as i can tell would like to see all guns banned

Gahndi: deal with discrimination and other issues with nonviolence.  You: have a wide stretch of laws to rigidly prevent any kind of bigotry.  (Except religious bigotry.)

Gahndi: I had learnt at the outset not to carry on public work with borrowed money. One could rely on people's promises in most matters, except in respect of money.  You: Seem to be a pretty clear Keynsian.

Ghandi: To attain to perfect purity one has to become absolutely passion-free in thought, speech and action; to rise above the opposing currents of love and hatred, attachment and repulsion.  You: believe in a passioned view of things rather then looking at things purely logically.

All said though, your current bigotry towards religion is clearly due to your own situation where you are an atheist but afraid to mention it to your family.  It's a fairly common way for religious bigotry to be born out.  Though it makes no more sense then someone who hates black people because he was jumped by some black people.

When it comes to your own situation, Gahndi would say to tell your parents the truth and non-violently accept all the consequences that comes with it.

I can see why you said that Gandhi and I are opposites. I disagree with the bolded point though. I don't think that humans are inherently anything. And while I agree with the underlined part, that's really a flaw of mine, rather than a conscious belief. I can't really help that one (I do try though).

You're wrong about the reason why I dislike religion though. That's not even strong enough to fuel my irrational 'passionate' impulses. You didn't really answer my question though. Was afraid youcompare me with some nasty individual.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)