By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Muslim Woman Strangles and Stabbs Daughter 40 Times to Exorcise Her

padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:

I guess so :B

But really, it all comes down to what you define as religious fanaticism. If you describe it as taking your beliefs to a point where you take action on them in counter-social ways (such as Ghandi's fast), then I believe it is fine so long as it is properly directed. If you define religious fanaticism to be any form of violent behavior in the name of religion then for the most part I can only agree with you that it is counter-positive.

Of course, if you want, we could instead stay with a vague definition of it all :P

Ghandi's actions can't be considered religious fanatism, because he wasn't acting in the name of any religion (I'm not even sure what religion he followed). Those actions were politcally motivated. When I think of religious fanatisicm, I think of hings like the Crusades, or the bombing of abortion clinics. Or Westboro Baptist Church.

What about martin luther king? Would you consider his mission politically motivated, or religiously motivated. Keep in mind one of his biggest quotes: "I have seen the promised land".

What about George W. Bush Jr.? Was he politically motivated, or religiously motivated? He claimed he was on a 'mission from God'.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Around the Network
sapphi_snake said:

I guess Kasz offered the best explanation regardign this issue. I was mainly concerend about the religious freedom thing.

I'll have to revise through all that's been said later (busy these days). But I have family members who openly state that their religious activity is low, or more or less nonexistant due to laziness...and there are several others who debate things within Islam openly. I can assure you it had nothing to with religious freedom.

We NEVER force religion onto others, especially by brute force.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Kasz216 said:


1) Exorcism by a priest, you just hold someone down while reading from the bible and commanding the demon to leave in the name of god.  As for where the practice comes from I can't really say.  I'd guess this would answer part of your second question though, in that it predates the "Split" therefore most likely all abrhamic religions can drive out demons in the name of god.  In general the abrahamic religions are a lot "nicer" too each other, usually thinking there are some exceptions for each other. 

2) I explained how they "work".    It's a lot like the Placebo effect.  Convince people that by "taking the demon" out of them, that their pain will lessen/their "evil" actions will be less tempting/ Something else.

It often works... at least for the intermediate

3)  A relgious group can claim that demonic possessions only happen where the religion is, because the Devil is only intersted in corrupting the faithfull.  Verus some modern psychologists who have no explination for why DID really only happens with any large numbers in the United Staes.  (Though is increasingly diagnosed in europe.)

Truth is, Dissossiative Identity Disorder is likely CAUSED by therapists who unintentionally coach them to treat each emotion or set of feelings as a "different personality."

 

In Islam it's quite the opposite actually. The devils target the weak ones because they don't read Quran or mentions god's name enough. Devils are hurt by Quran (that's why it's read during exorcism) so they can't harm the faithful who is always in touch with his religion.

Most Muslims who go to the exorcists are not Shiokh, they are the ones who commit lots of sins and believe that devils possessed them easily because they "let their gaurd down", as long as your a Shaikh, you are safe. It seems that who believes he's in danger of being possessed is the ones that seeks exorcism eventually.

Lots of Muslims also believe that Humans can contact the devils. In order to do that you have to curse the god himself, burn the quran, shit on it (seriosly), grow nails, become dirty and all sorts Of Kufr. In Huaxiong's case, his aunt met "eccentric" people who she thought they did something to her. I believe by eccentric he means those same  dirty people who are in contact with the devils. That's why the devil targeted her despite being a devoted Muslim. He was ordered to. There is a good chance that what happened to his aunt started by an obsession about the people she met and their ability to harm her.

I am not convinced that exorcism is part of Islam in the first place. Quran and the thousands of hadeeths don't mention exorcism. We have Hadeeths that talks about armpits hair but zero about exorcism.

 

As for DID. Isn't DID 'not accepted" by many psychiatrists? and the ones that accept it describe it differently too. Some of them believe the whole thing is just about memory gaps. A guy moves the couch, he forgets completely that he moved it and he starts to think that there is someone invisible in his life and so on. So it's not always "2 separate" personalities. I am curious as to why you are referring to DID only. What about psychosis that accompanies LOTS of mental disoders? Each case should be studied separately .


1) I mean why demons only attack those "of the faith".  They pick of the weak ones yeah... but the weak of the believers, hence why it wouldn't manifest in outsiders as much.  (Or so they would guess.)

 

2)  I'm only talking about DID because it's a funny coicindence.  It's the psychiatrists version of Demon possession.



sapphi_snake said:
padib said:

I guess so :B

But really, it all comes down to what you define as religious fanaticism. If you describe it as taking your beliefs to a point where you take action on them in counter-social ways (such as Ghandi's fast), then I believe it is fine so long as it is properly directed. If you define religious fanaticism to be any form of violent behavior in the name of religion then for the most part I can only agree with you that it is counter-positive.

Of course, if you want, we could instead stay with a vague definition of it all :P

Ghandi's actions can't be considered religious fanatism, because he wasn't acting in the name of any religion (I'm not even sure what religion he followed). Those actions were politcally motivated. When I think of religious fanatisicm, I think of hings like the Crusades, or the bombing of abortion clinics. Or Westboro Baptist Church.

The Crusades were politcally motivated to export europes violence outside of europe since the person being invaded, even if they won the war, suffered MASSIVE economic losses and there were a number of "poor lords" and proffesional soldiers at this point just rareing for combat and gains through war were always far greater then through peace.  (Since looting was allowed.)

The Westboro Baptist Church's entire goal is the banning of gay marriage.  Which would be a political motivation.

 

Aside from that.  Gahndi was a Hindu who believed in the core of every religion was good.  Gahndi's response to you would be....

"As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side."


sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

(off topic: so DID isn't actually real?)


Well it's "real" but not naturally occuring.

It's an Iatroginic disease.

Someone comes to a therapist with problems, and the therapist subconsiously (hopefully) trains them to assosiate each different feeling with a different personality... which creates a DID disorder.



Around the Network

Hmm. Like many mentioned she was just psychotic. The religious part was just the make up for the insanity.

I know some people believe in ghosts and stuff like that. But Ghosts/Angels/Devils would have been discovered already if they had an effect on our reality.

Such terms were used to explain things that were impossible to explain in the past. Mostly it has something yo do with altered perception of the world through hallucinogenic drugs like magic mushrooms which they put into the beer or other food or through mental illnesses that cause you to interprete stuff the wrong way. Because your brain messes up in putting action and reaction in the proper time frame or saves things in the wrong emotional context. This can even be influenced by other people or by yourself so that even rational people start believing weird stuff. Human minds can easily be influenced. Example If you are on a concert you can hate the music but if the crowd is having a lot fun you are too. If the whole world starts phantasising about Ghosts and everyone around you takes it seriously you will end up believing it too. If you grow up in an environment that seriously believes an alien robot sneaks into houses at christmas and determins if the inhabitants will have a good/bad/ok year ahead you will believe it. Some might be harder to convince but a couple of doctors some religious leaders pseudo scientific research and media coverage will convince most people.

Here we got a gullible person fed with weird informations and paired with a physichological condition that strengthens those believes and gives her the certainty that she is right and she acts accordingly.

Nothing to do with religion but you could argue that given a different background in the past she would have acted differently.



huaxiong90 said:
sapphi_snake said:

I guess Kasz offered the best explanation regardign this issue. I was mainly concerend about the religious freedom thing.

I'll have to revise through all that's been said later (busy these days). But I have family members who openly state that their religious activity is low, or more or less nonexistant due to laziness...and there are several others who debate things within Islam openly. I can assure you it had nothing to with religious freedom.

We NEVER force religion onto others, especially by brute force.

Well, it's all good then.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:

I guess so :B

But really, it all comes down to what you define as religious fanaticism. If you describe it as taking your beliefs to a point where you take action on them in counter-social ways (such as Ghandi's fast), then I believe it is fine so long as it is properly directed. If you define religious fanaticism to be any form of violent behavior in the name of religion then for the most part I can only agree with you that it is counter-positive.

Of course, if you want, we could instead stay with a vague definition of it all :P

Ghandi's actions can't be considered religious fanatism, because he wasn't acting in the name of any religion (I'm not even sure what religion he followed). Those actions were politcally motivated. When I think of religious fanatisicm, I think of hings like the Crusades, or the bombing of abortion clinics. Or Westboro Baptist Church.

The Crusades were politcally motivated to export europes violence outside of europe since the person being invaded, even if they won the war, suffered MASSIVE economic losses and there were a number of "poor lords" and proffesional soldiers at this point just rareing for combat and gains through war were always far greater then through peace.  (Since looting was allowed.)

The Westboro Baptist Church's entire goal is the banning of gay marriage.  Which would be a political motivation.

 

Aside from that.  Gahndi was a Hindu who believed in the core of every religion was good.  Gahndi's response to you would be....

"As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side."

Religious reason were the drivign force of the Crusades (whether they were just a pretext used by those in power is besides the point, but it was the primary motivation of the common people).

Why does Westboro Baptist Church want to ban same sex marriage? Is it not due to religious reasons? Is religion not their primary motivation?

And Ghandi was really wrong about that. I'd say it's the other way around.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:

I guess so :B

But really, it all comes down to what you define as religious fanaticism. If you describe it as taking your beliefs to a point where you take action on them in counter-social ways (such as Ghandi's fast), then I believe it is fine so long as it is properly directed. If you define religious fanaticism to be any form of violent behavior in the name of religion then for the most part I can only agree with you that it is counter-positive.

Of course, if you want, we could instead stay with a vague definition of it all :P

Ghandi's actions can't be considered religious fanatism, because he wasn't acting in the name of any religion (I'm not even sure what religion he followed). Those actions were politcally motivated. When I think of religious fanatisicm, I think of hings like the Crusades, or the bombing of abortion clinics. Or Westboro Baptist Church.

What about martin luther king? Would you consider his mission politically motivated, or religiously motivated. Keep in mind one of his biggest quotes: "I have seen the promised land".

What about George W. Bush Jr.? Was he politically motivated, or religiously motivated? He claimed he was on a 'mission from God'.

Don't dodge buddy :)

I'm not doging anything. Just making a point.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

(off topic: so DID isn't actually real?)


Well it's "real" but not naturally occuring.

It's an Iatroginic disease.

Someone comes to a therapist with problems, and the therapist subconsiously (hopefully) trains them to assosiate each different feeling with a different personality... which creates a DID disorder.

Is it widely accepted as such (i.e. iatroginic disease)? And that 'hopefully' sure makes me nervous. What sort of treatment would determine a psychiatrist to tell the patient to associate different feelings to different 'personalities'?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)