Final-Fan said: I note your noting my not noting Cultists but not noting my not noting Lovers.

I need to write this down in my notebook.

A) proff's long post.... that's a well drawn picture, most points are sound and there's only one I disagree with... I do think FF and you look scummy for deflecting the discussion from Linkz.
If anything, a night will give more info on Nen, whereas Linkz... we already know he'd scan guilty (as scum or miller) so there is nothing to gain there by waiting.
Although yes, Nen's insistence on link would make him look good... He didn't actually vote him day one...Linkz did vote nen, with linkz being the sure lynch down the road...

With the current situation and although I have suspicions on others, I do think Hat may have been right, Chloe, Elenna and Nathan as scum, with Nen in the role of Nathan (he did comment on the ass thing too as you pointed).

B) ABC's point of the avenging post is something that struck me too when I read it... I just thought it was very weird a statement to make, but if the mafia had decided that linkz was gonna get lynched today and have Nen be on his ass for a complete distancing, well... that could warrant the confidence of not being lynched down the road. Prof noted that Nen was the tipping point voter.... that I find interesting as besides trucks and I, he certainly is the one that was the most adamant on linkz being a fake and this lateness may be explained by trying to gain a day if at all possible.

Granted, I make many assumptions here, but I like scenarios that I believe fit well.

Oh and no, I highly doubt either is third party because A) miller doesn't make sense for linkz B) Nen would not have the confidence he had in his interactions.

With all this said though... I believe linkz's lynch today is the safest route... as many of Nen's accusation points are, in my eyes, based on both of them being scum.

Vote : Linkz

Votals

On Players

Linkz: heph, abc, baal, nen, ff

Nen: linkz, ff, prof


By Players

heph: linkz, linkz

abc: linkz

baal: linkz

nen: linkz

ff: linkz, nen

linkz: nen

prof: nen


With 10 players it takes 6 for a majority. With the current spread it takes 6 to lynch. 4 votes are needed for a time limit.

And i don't believe i "slipped up" once >_<

IIntersting to see Proff creating distant from FF in his last part of the post and also shows he future plans to keep Linkz

even tho he said he will lynching  him after me

1. Yet, you said you were happy that people would only be punished if they say their actual role. Let me explain normal games so you and others understand my point. Normally, when lynch trains are about to occur, townies claim their roles and scum make up roles. Townies don't have to worry about claiming and in fact, the whole reason the new rules about claiming exist is because townies were simply claiming and it was becoming too easy to find the scum because scum always made up quirky roles, in an attempt to evade counterclaiming. It was a dark time for vgc mafia. NOW, with these rules the past 5-6 games townies try not to claim because they may lose their power. It become much easier for scum to hide actually. Your response just now is that it's hard for scum to acquit themselves? That doesn't make any sense at all. I wold have believed you had you said something like "yes, I don't think town should be able to acquit with a claim", but your response is that it's better for town? I don't even think you knew what you were talking about and just saying things that you think sounded good.

2. Right, so I just called you a liar, and your response is "...ookay"? During the character ass thing several people claimed. What was funny was that Hat mentioned only radish and linkz, never acknowledging your claim, and adding that radish and linkz must be chloe and elena. Through that ENTIRE 100 or so posta about the asses, you never spoke up. I think you realized that you almost trapped yourself in a roleclaim that could be countered and hoped nobody would notice. Additionally, you didn't want to clear the air because you thought it might look suspicious.

3. Explain? What key word.

4. Yes, he has. He gives radish a pass almost every game. I think he even has a saying, no lynch for newbs on day 1. While Radish isn't a newb, he plays like one. I'm certain that he gave Radish a pass last game and the game before.

5. Well, there was discussion that Raja might be running around somewhere due to the rod. This ties in with the asses. You're either Nathan, or a liar. But maybe liar is too harsh a word. I'd say it's something more like a wannabe. You want to be friendly. Someone can explain it to you better. We've seen countless times where people have joined in the joking (a la the apple banana thing) to seem nonchalant. In fact, I would say you're playing extremely nonchalant this game. When you say things like "oh you just have a feeling? Oh well that's fine". Now if one person isn't fitting past playstyle, I'd say it's you.

6. Ok, maybe there aren't two mafia factions, I'm sorry I brought it up (I actually never said there were two mafia factions). I said there may be a third party and mafia. I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

-"So then you're 100% confident that he's not a third party? Or am I misreading you?"

-"........considering our relatively small number i never thought of the possibility of a third party. When you asked about the interesting point in the OP did u mean there is a SK ? And he is the one who killed Raja and stole the staff ?"

Nope I asked you exactly if you ever thought he might be a third party. My question about the OP was a general question to everyone and I didn't address it specifically to anyone. You connected those two thoughts on your own. What I think is interesting is that that is what you connected with it. If I were t o say something else to other people like ff or trucks, they might think that I was referring to something else. You have, shall we say, "scum on the brain". I don't mean you're looking for scum, I mean scum is closer to home than you let off.

7. I meant nothing by that. I just didn't want people to think I was skipping posts or intentionally leaving things out that may clear your case. You were simply either gone or not saying anything of import. No offense.

8. You said Hat was of equal suspicion as Linkz. You linked them through interactions. Secondly, you seem to be ignoring Radish. In fact, I recall you saying that if Radish turned up scum, then Linkz most likely would too. I think you're giving up your buddy in order to lynch linkz. Let it be known that I'm now willing to lynch Radish as well. I think Radish will turn up scum, and I'm looking more at the person who might be trying to use his death, than some random person defending an idiot (no offense radish)

9. Avoiding the accusation? Everyone knows you want Linkz dead. So then why did you warn people. Tell me specifically. Ask yourself "why did I warn people about insta hammering Linkz if I want him dead". Then, tell me what your answer is. Further explain how I'm escaping culpability by claiming. I expect a very good explanation, not something half assed.

10. I agreed with your opinions? The only opinions that existed were that 2 millers was odd. There is really nothing scummy that I can see about Linkz at the moment. What is unscummy is that he acknowledges his eventual lynch. And he will be lynched. He knows I stay the course when something needs to be done. Plus, miller is still a very tricky role to claim. Claiming miller is like claiming cop. He will be lynched, I guarantee that. But you..you are just all kinds of scummy. Dodging questions, deflecting, pretending to be calm...you said earlier "I just wanted to make my suspects list look bigger", and now here you are casting suspicion on almost every player. I bet if I went through your posts, I could find all your scum buddies simply in the people you haven't cast suspicion on, and also radish.

11. Not sure I understand.

12. How am I making myself look good? Yes, I think linkz is a 3rd party. I said that in the very long post that you JUST RESPONDED TO. I have my reasons for not claiming.

Tell me something...where were you last night?

I think with (3) he means "the key word is 'ignored'", as in "you ignored Radish's scummy posts" instead of acknowledging them and then dismissing them, as nen did in the second quote.

I'm not saying that accusation holds water, but that is the way I interpreted his post. If I recall, Linkz also acknowledged the scumminess and more or less dismissed it.

1- I meant its more fun (its why i play mafia games) role claiming is the easiest way to escape lynching
so adding a negative side will make people try harder to explain there position.

2- You called me a liar with no proff (no pun itended) so what do u want me to say ? no your the liar

3-Ignored. As in hey ignored it and didn't comment about it until later.

4-Not in the games i played.

5- I always joke around with Hat, that post wouldn't bother anyone other than scum

6- Its a normal conclusion to come up with, why didnt you question me on the spot then ?
Its like you decided to lynch me and looked every single post i did and convince your self its scummy.

7- non taken. You can see when last time i was online if u checked my profile btw

8- The only thing that made me less suspicious of radish is him not jumping on Linkz vote train (to make him self look better before the lynch) and didnt vote me when u and FF began your "lets lynch nen" campaign.
actually he posted his list of suspects and it didn't include me.

9-Because i didn't want people to complain about how fast the day ende, its true i want lynch dead
but i want other to participate (yes i'm just a nice guy so sue me.........but dont lynch me)

10-Really i casted my suspicion on almost all players....wow
As for you taking my "big list " joke as evidence.....i dont know how to respond.
Like i said every thing i said and will continue to say to you it will be scummy before you read it.

11-About the 2 milers i mean.

12- Because your assuring that Linkz will be lynched (eventually) and now you saying your suspecting FF
after i said you guys are together.

13- Where was i last night ?
Are you seriously asking me that ?!!

1. But you just said it would be harder for scum. You just said that a second ago. I said, "i would understand if you meant townies. But you said it would be harder for scum".

-Happy that it will be difficult for players to acquit themselves when they're in trouble?

-No, happy that scum will have trouble acuity themselves when they're in trouble (any pro town should've understood that)

-I would have believed you had you said something like "yes, I don't think town should be able to acquit with a claim"

-role claiming is the easiest way to escape lynching so adding a negative side will make people try harder to explain there position.

I understand. But you said this in your very second post "And i though "Wonk" meant role calming your real role back then (glad too see he cleared this part)". And furthermore, no "any pro-town should have understood that" is baseless. There is no logic to that.

2. I called you a liar, and you can't prof me wrong, can you? Your character does not have a sexy ass. You were trying to fit in.

3. I ignore Radish too. Lots of people do. He's done this every single game for nearly 10 games. We even went over this a while back when he first started admitting that he gets killed day one every game, and that nobody on his old forums is ever surprised that he's first to die.

4. Well then you don't have a very good piece of reliable evidence do you?

5. So you're admitting to the lie in #2? THANKS. Again, "this post wouldn't bother anyone else than scum" is a logical fallacy. You couldn't explain even if you tried. In fact, in addition to the response to this post, I'd like a seperate post detailing exactly how that makes sense.

6. I don't think so. You're mentioning over and over how normal you're playing. I'll bold these for everyone to see. And to answer your question, that was all I wanted to know at the time. I'm not just giong to reveal what I'm thinking to someone who I think is scum so that they can just kill me.

7.

8. Someone trusting you makes you think they're town? Wow. That's never how it turns out. If someone trusts you despite evidence, it's usually because they are scum and they are buddying up to you.

9. Fine, whatever. Maybe you should mention that next time.

10. So your big list was completely and utterly a joke? Then why was it a response to a question? What is your actual response to the question then? I didn't take you joke as evidence. I took it just at face value that you wanted to look at more people. And now, what's your suspect list? 6? Let's see, me, linkz, radish, ff, abc...were there any others?

11. I still don't follow. How is that a response. I said that your arguments against linkz were solid, but that you were completely scummy in presenting them. You asked how that is possible. I explained with an example that you said 2 millers in strange, but then also said there may be more than 2. The first part is logical, the second part is scummy. To this, you responded with "read what I said above". Just answer the post, or don't. Don't point me to obscure passages.

12. What are you talking about. That looks BAD. Are you seriously telling me that I'm incapable of noticing what distancing would be? If I looked at FF with suspicion, you can be sure that I did it because  I am genuine about it. In HIS CASE it was no more than what was related to a secret that he WAS hiding.

13. Yup. Night one who did you visit? This is the crux of the argument. If you answer correctly here, I will drop all my accusations against you. I have a "feeling" that you visited me last night. Is that true?

Oh. You gave me the impression that you knew he was miller before day two started. Your explanation makes sense, but everything you "gained" from his post was already obvious. A dead player should not give any information, and hat's post didn't.