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Forums - General - Trolls can now be sent to prison

It has been said that being an asshole is every humans god given right. I would not consider what this gentlemen did to be a crime, but I live in a Republic. Which means I live in a nation of laws not men. In the United States the right to freedom of speech is almost absolute. With very few exceptions, and to be honest about that we like it that way. To be bitterly blunt anyone thinking the United States will follow Europe's lead on this doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. You might think we are the same, but we are not. I am not saying that this court is wrong in how it interprets the laws it functions under, and if that is what the people of that nation want it is fine by me. I wouldn't like to live in such a state however.

Frankly I find internet shrines to be a form of trolling themselves. Trolling is not about getting a negative reaction. It is about getting a reaction. This gentlemen is looking for negative reinforcement, but the parents were looking for positive reinforcement. Both were about getting a reaction to satisfy a emotional need. Though a pity me troll goes about getting fed differently then the asshole troll. It doesn't mean they were not all trolling. Trolling is just another word for attention seeking, and frankly I am getting tired of it only being viewed in a negative fashion.

Trolling is very much necessary for a healthy community, and without their antics the community suffers, and if you think this community doesn't thrive from its population of trolls you are deluding yourself. Someone has to push the buttons to keep a community motivated. Implying otherwise is just stupid, and in the case of this story the irony is probably this. His negative antics probably generated a ground swell of positive retorts. Defending the targets of his attacks.

So as twisted as it may seem he probably did these people a favor. What are a few negative comments if it brings about thousands of well wishes. By the way the opposite of love is indifference not hate. So he is actually a little bit ahead of the vast majority. In that he cared enough to respond. Which spurred the community into action on the behalf of his targets. Like I said I think the action was extreme on the part of that community, but you know what he got the response.



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look at the guy, he's just a fucked up anti social insecure little man. He probably thought this was his easiest way to get noticed. He didn't want to be a no-one any more but he sacrificed his dignity and respect in order to do it. Yeah , he does need help from specialists not jail. Jails are practically at bursting point what with all those rioters getting collared too. Psychiatric help and then community service.



padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

1. From what I read it could be a mitigating factor, he could not understand when sick black humour is inappropriate, or the limit beyond which from just inappropriate becomes cruel and/or harassing. He could also have developed an obsessive interest and repetitive routine in doing that.

2. Obviously the judges just judge prosecuted people, after police found enough evidences for a trial or caught the culprit in the act, but police can do preliminary and cautionary investigations on the basis of founded suspicion, and I'm 100% sure Natasha's parents didn't talk lightly about bullying, although they said they didn't know the names of the bullies, but just the name of their clique.

1. The psychologist probably checked all of this out allready. His lawyer didn't seem to pursue this angle either.

2. There's really not much to be suspicious about. At this point, Natasha's parents could pursue a civil case against the bullies, but a criminal case is out of the question.

After reading both your posts I think that's exactly what Alby is getting at. The legal system is flawed. The true culprits (the girls) got away with nothing and it'll probably stay that way in the future. Go world!

Ummm, this case was this guy harassing the girl's parents. What do those girls have to do with this? Why can't people just understand that different cases are different cases?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Dodece said:
It has been said that being an asshole is every humans god given right. I would not consider what this gentlemen did to be a crime, but I live in a Republic. Which means I live in a nation of laws not men. In the United States the right to freedom of speech is almost absolute. With very few exceptions, and to be honest about that we like it that way. To be bitterly blunt anyone thinking the United States will follow Europe's lead on this doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. You might think we are the same, but we are not. I am not saying that this court is wrong in how it interprets the laws it functions under, and if that is what the people of that nation want it is fine by me. I wouldn't like to live in such a state however.

Frankly I find internet shrines to be a form of trolling themselves. Trolling is not about getting a negative reaction. It is about getting a reaction. This gentlemen is looking for negative reinforcement, but the parents were looking for positive reinforcement. Both were about getting a reaction to satisfy a emotional need. Though a pity me troll goes about getting fed differently then the asshole troll. It doesn't mean they were not all trolling. Trolling is just another word for attention seeking, and frankly I am getting tired of it only being viewed in a negative fashion.

Trolling is very much necessary for a healthy community, and without their antics the community suffers, and if you think this community doesn't thrive from its population of trolls you are deluding yourself. Someone has to push the buttons to keep a community motivated. Implying otherwise is just stupid, and in the case of this story the irony is probably this. His negative antics probably generated a ground swell of positive retorts. Defending the targets of his attacks.

So as twisted as it may seem he probably did these people a favor. What are a few negative comments if it brings about thousands of well wishes. By the way the opposite of love is indifference not hate. So he is actually a little bit ahead of the vast majority. In that he cared enough to respond. Which spurred the community into action on the behalf of his targets. Like I said I think the action was extreme on the part of that community, but you know what he got the response.

So he was doing them a favor by harassing them? Nice thinking...

Oh, and the Soviet Union was also a 'Republic'. The word doesn't describe what you think it describes.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

1. From what I read it could be a mitigating factor, he could not understand when sick black humour is inappropriate, or the limit beyond which from just inappropriate becomes cruel and/or harassing. He could also have developed an obsessive interest and repetitive routine in doing that.

2. Obviously the judges just judge prosecuted people, after police found enough evidences for a trial or caught the culprit in the act, but police can do preliminary and cautionary investigations on the basis of founded suspicion, and I'm 100% sure Natasha's parents didn't talk lightly about bullying, although they said they didn't know the names of the bullies, but just the name of their clique.

1. The psychologist probably checked all of this out allready. His lawyer didn't seem to pursue this angle either.

2. There's really not much to be suspicious about. At this point, Natasha's parents could pursue a civil case against the bullies, but a criminal case is out of the question.

After reading both your posts I think that's exactly what Alby is getting at. The legal system is flawed. The true culprits (the girls) got away with nothing and it'll probably stay that way in the future. Go world!

Ummm, this case was this guy harassing the girl's parents. What do those girls have to do with this? Why can't people just understand that different cases are different cases?

Sapphi, we understand. But the argument in your post is irrelevant to this thread. Kasz already mentioned it and I told him this thread is to debate the case, and to debate what revolves around it: justice who was really to blame, to incarcerate, the fact that a troll got incarcerated and all these things. It's pointless for you to keep repeating that, we want to talk about that and it's apropos to the thread in general.

Well, you're free to talk about it. It's a pretty irrational conversation though, because they're separate cases. It's like someone getting sued for firing a woman because she got cancer from the her drinking water, and you guys complaining that the company who dumped waste in the drinking water wasn't punished. Totally different cases.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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padib said:

I see what you mean. The case in question is the judgement of the guy for cyber-trolling post-mortem. Okay. But you fail to realize that the article also mentions the bullying and seems to blur out the fact that he wasn't responsible for the pre-mortem bullying at all. He was just a troll towards the parents and those who mourned. The whole article revolved around the story of a girl, and collateral to that you have some troll who gets put to jail for trolling after her death.

As alby said, if 

"It's time that stopping bullying at the source is placed higher on the government's agenda."

and

"Sherry Adhami, of the charity Beatbullying, said: 'Today's ruling is a monumental move towards bullying and cyberbullying being taken more seriously and sends a strong message to society that bullying, whether online or offline, is not going to be tolerated.' "

then the true bullies are not being dealt with, and the article shows a gross lack of justice at hand.

 

It's not because we're not following what you're used to hearing that it makes our interest in the topic irrational. You can judge it irrelevant at the very best maybe, but even then I just don't agree. Something happened to a person, someone was punished for it and is being framed by media as the main source of bullying, it's vague, it's unclear and so it's easy to bridge his post-mortem bullying with that of the girls, at least media-wise. Remember, this post is based off of a news article.

What it leaves us with is a false sence of justice that bullying is made away with, but the true bullying was completely disregarded. I don't know what to say else than that.

Is the article somehow suggesting that he was responsible for the pre-death bullying? Because I did not get that at all. The girl herself is only mentioned at the beginning of the article, and then they go on about this guy's actions regarding the girl's family, and similar offences he commited at other people's memorial sites. Those quotes refer to the case at hand (harassing the girls' parents), so the 'true bully' in this case is the accused. He is the main source of bullying in this case.

He is not blamed for the girl commiting suicide. Actually, the girl commiting suicide has nothing to do with the case at hand.

If you wanna go off topic with the punishing of those girls, you're free to do that. But don't trey to merge your off topic issue with the main topic. The judge who was trying this case (the harassment of the girls' parents by the accused), had no logical reason to care what happened to the girl, that she was bullied etc., because it had nothing to do with the case he was trying. The media was reporting mainly about this guy, because he was the main party involved in the case. They did another full article regarding Natasha (things like this tend to make the news), where they talked about how she was bullied by those girls, but since no one knows what was in Natasha's head, no one knows what was the main factor that drove her to commit suicide. No one also knows if the bullying she experienced was at the same level at this guy was doing, thus it's unknown if the girl clique could even be prosecuted.

A bully was prosecuted. Prosecuting such individuals is hard, because proof for conviction is hard to come by, and victims often don't speak up. Even in non-criminal cases, schools often don't have efficient rules regarding the punishment of bullies.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

padib said:
sapphi_snake said:

Is the article somehow suggesting that he was responsible for the pre-death bullying? Because I did not get that at all. The girl herself is only mentioned at the beginning of the article, and then they go on about this guy's actions regarding the girl's family, and similar offences he commited at other people's memorial sites. Those quotes refer to the case at hand (harassing the girls' parents), so the 'true bully' in this case is the accused. He is the main source of bullying in this case.

He is not blamed for the girl commiting suicide. Actually, the girl commiting suicide has nothing to do with the case at hand.

If you wanna go off topic with the punishing of those girls, you're free to do that. But don't trey to merge your off topic issue with the main topic. The judge who was trying this case (the harassment of the girls' parents by the accused), had no logical reason to care what happened to the girl, that she was bullied etc., because it had nothing to do with the case he was trying. The media was reporting mainly about this guy, because he was the main party involved in the case. They did another full article regarding Natasha (things like this tend to make the news), where they talked about how she was bullied by those girls, but since no one knows what was in Natasha's head, no one knows what was the main factor that drove her to commit suicide. No one also knows if the bullying she experienced was at the same level at this guy was doing, thus it's unknown if the girl clique could even be prosecuted.

A bully was prosecuted. Prosecuting such individuals is hard, because proof for conviction is hard to come by, and victims often don't speak up. Even in non-criminal cases, schools often don't have efficient rules regarding the punishment of bullies.

I see. Though both are two different cases of bullying, at least some bully was prosecuted and it hopefully provides a sense that bullying people no matter where or when, of a harrassing nature, is not okay.
The only issue I have is that, in the end, it's the ugly anti-social fat man that gets the full blame. Life is unjust, but I also get the sense that people like to blame the monster as much as possible, rather than the actual culprit, whether he/she/they are impossible to prove guilty or not.

Yes, that's true. I myself hate bulying, and am disgusted that more isn't done about it. Sadly there are several factors at work: no accountability if the bullies are minors (both legally, at schools, and regarding how parents treat the situation), and sometimes bullying is encouraged by the school's culture (for example how jocks are allowed to bully kids in American schools).

I guess it is sad that the anti-social 'weirdo' got made an example, when people like him may not even represent the typical bully. But as I said, a complaint was actually filed against him, and there was enough proof to prosecute him, these elements being missing in most cases of bullying.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Dodece said:
It has been said that being an asshole is every humans god given right. I would not consider what this gentlemen did to be a crime, but I live in a Republic. Which means I live in a nation of laws not men. In the United States the right to freedom of speech is almost absolute. With very few exceptions, and to be honest about that we like it that way. To be bitterly blunt anyone thinking the United States will follow Europe's lead on this doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. You might think we are the same, but we are not. I am not saying that this court is wrong in how it interprets the laws it functions under, and if that is what the people of that nation want it is fine by me. I wouldn't like to live in such a state however.

Frankly I find internet shrines to be a form of trolling themselves. Trolling is not about getting a negative reaction. It is about getting a reaction. This gentlemen is looking for negative reinforcement, but the parents were looking for positive reinforcement. Both were about getting a reaction to satisfy a emotional need. Though a pity me troll goes about getting fed differently then the asshole troll. It doesn't mean they were not all trolling. Trolling is just another word for attention seeking, and frankly I am getting tired of it only being viewed in a negative fashion.

Trolling is very much necessary for a healthy community, and without their antics the community suffers, and if you think this community doesn't thrive from its population of trolls you are deluding yourself. Someone has to push the buttons to keep a community motivated. Implying otherwise is just stupid, and in the case of this story the irony is probably this. His negative antics probably generated a ground swell of positive retorts. Defending the targets of his attacks.

So as twisted as it may seem he probably did these people a favor. What are a few negative comments if it brings about thousands of well wishes. By the way the opposite of love is indifference not hate. So he is actually a little bit ahead of the vast majority. In that he cared enough to respond. Which spurred the community into action on the behalf of his targets. Like I said I think the action was extreme on the part of that community, but you know what he got the response.

So he was doing them a favor by harassing them? Nice thinking...

Oh, and the Soviet Union was also a 'Republic'. The word doesn't describe what you think it describes.

Since when has public discourse been granted the same status as private communication?  I really want to understand this twisted logic. These parents opened a public space encouraged public discourse. They invited public communication, and in doing so they voided their right to privacy in that space. They still seem to have retained their privacy outside of that space. Am I missing something in this story did he make personal contact with these people. Did he send them mail, or email. Did he in any way meet them in real life. All I see is someone who made snarky comments about a dead person in a public space. Oh and yes the likes of Face Book, and other social media spaces are public. You can always choose not to participate, or withdrawal yourself from scrutiny at any time. The only real harrassment I see here is what the parents did to themselves. By indulging, and fixating on a loud mouthed shmuck.

Forgive me on the second count I was referring to a Constitutional Republic. Which is based upon inviolable law rather then majority rule. In the United States the law is final. Where as in other forms of Republics the governing body or document can be altered.



Dodece said:
sapphi_snake said:
Dodece said:
It has been said that being an asshole is every humans god given right. I would not consider what this gentlemen did to be a crime, but I live in a Republic. Which means I live in a nation of laws not men. In the United States the right to freedom of speech is almost absolute. With very few exceptions, and to be honest about that we like it that way. To be bitterly blunt anyone thinking the United States will follow Europe's lead on this doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. You might think we are the same, but we are not. I am not saying that this court is wrong in how it interprets the laws it functions under, and if that is what the people of that nation want it is fine by me. I wouldn't like to live in such a state however.

Frankly I find internet shrines to be a form of trolling themselves. Trolling is not about getting a negative reaction. It is about getting a reaction. This gentlemen is looking for negative reinforcement, but the parents were looking for positive reinforcement. Both were about getting a reaction to satisfy a emotional need. Though a pity me troll goes about getting fed differently then the asshole troll. It doesn't mean they were not all trolling. Trolling is just another word for attention seeking, and frankly I am getting tired of it only being viewed in a negative fashion.

Trolling is very much necessary for a healthy community, and without their antics the community suffers, and if you think this community doesn't thrive from its population of trolls you are deluding yourself. Someone has to push the buttons to keep a community motivated. Implying otherwise is just stupid, and in the case of this story the irony is probably this. His negative antics probably generated a ground swell of positive retorts. Defending the targets of his attacks.

So as twisted as it may seem he probably did these people a favor. What are a few negative comments if it brings about thousands of well wishes. By the way the opposite of love is indifference not hate. So he is actually a little bit ahead of the vast majority. In that he cared enough to respond. Which spurred the community into action on the behalf of his targets. Like I said I think the action was extreme on the part of that community, but you know what he got the response.

So he was doing them a favor by harassing them? Nice thinking...

Oh, and the Soviet Union was also a 'Republic'. The word doesn't describe what you think it describes.

Since when has public discourse been granted the same status as private communication?  I really want to understand this twisted logic. These parents opened a public space encouraged public discourse. They invited publi c communication, and in doing so they voided their right to privacy in that space. They still seem to have retained their privacy outside of that space. Am I missing something in this story did he make personal contact with these people. Did he send them mail, or email. Did he in any way meet them in real life. All I see is someone who made snarky comments about a dead person in a public space. Oh and yes the likes of Face Book, and other social media spaces are public. You can always choose not to participate, or withdrawal yourself from scrutiny at any time. The only real harrassment I see here is what the parents did to themselves. By indulging, and fixating on a loud mouthed shmuck.

Forgive me on the second count I was referring to a Constitutional Republic. Which is based upon inviolable law rather then majority rule. In the United States the law is final. Where as in other forms of Republics the governing body or document can be altered.

You are aware that people can be held accoutnable for what they say in public, not what they say in private, no? And describing what he did as 'making snarky comments' is a quite minimizing what he did. Go read the article.

And the constitution can be altered through constitutional amendments.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
reviniente said:

From the Wikipedia article on hate speech:

'There is an international consensus that hate speech needs to be prohibited by law, and that such prohibitions override or are irrelevant to guarantees of freedom of expression. The United States is perhaps unique among the developed world in that under law hate speech regulation is incompatible with free speech.'

Free speech should be kept free.

Like any right it should be limited. Hate speech is not free speech.

Say for instance, the right to live, to work, and to own property?