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blkfish92 on 29 June 2011

Damn him...



           

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thranx on 29 June 2011
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.



o_O.Q on 29 June 2011
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.

 

"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :


" 

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

"

...and your dates for his second exploit...  you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people

"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"

 

"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"

... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :

http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key

"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."

 


if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update

 

but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"

 

...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway



thranx on 29 June 2011
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.

 

"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :


" 

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

"

...and your dates for his second exploit...  you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people

"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"

 

"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"

... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :

http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key

"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."

 


if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update

 

but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"

 

...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway

if your not going to read what you yourself post why bother arguing? None of what you posted shows geohot as hacking the psn or pirating. I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware ect and you still will not accept the facts. If you can't accept facts what else can I do here? Everything you post just shows that other people did the hacking or that sony removed otherOS cause of security concerns. None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers.

 

the article you posted was from after dec. the root jeys were made known at a hacking convention in dec 2010. before geohots release



o_O.Q on 29 June 2011
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.

 

"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :


" 

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

"

...and your dates for his second exploit...  you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people

"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"

 

"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"

... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :

http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key

"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."

 


if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update

 

but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"

 

...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway

if your not going to read what you yourself post why bother arguing? None of what you posted shows geohot as hacking the psn or pirating. I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware ect and you still will not accept the facts. If you can't accept facts what else can I do here? Everything you post just shows that other people did the hacking or that sony removed otherOS cause of security concerns. None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers.

 

the article you posted was from after dec. the root jeys were made known at a hacking convention in dec 2010. before geohots release

 

you said "I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware"

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

extract form article above "hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year"

"you still will not accept the facts" what facts are you reffering to? it can't be the crap above

...its about at this point that im beginning to realise that you don't even understand the whole thing yourself geohot posted two hacks for the ps3 one in early 2010 and then the keys in late 2010... it was on the second occasion that he collaberated with fail overflow who did indeed hack the console but did not post the keys online guess who took it upon himself to do it?


you said "If you can't accept facts what else can I do here?" the irony of this is killing me 


"None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers." :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"


http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 



Around the Network
thranx on 30 June 2011
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.

 

"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :


" 

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

"

...and your dates for his second exploit...  you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people

"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"

 

"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"

... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :

http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key

"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."

 


if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update

 

but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"

 

...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway

if your not going to read what you yourself post why bother arguing? None of what you posted shows geohot as hacking the psn or pirating. I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware ect and you still will not accept the facts. If you can't accept facts what else can I do here? Everything you post just shows that other people did the hacking or that sony removed otherOS cause of security concerns. None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers.

 

the article you posted was from after dec. the root jeys were made known at a hacking convention in dec 2010. before geohots release

 

you said "I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware"

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

extract form article above "hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year"

"you still will not accept the facts" what facts are you reffering to? it can't be the crap above

...its about at this point that im beginning to realise that you don't even understand the whole thing yourself geohot posted two hacks for the ps3 one in early 2010 and then the keys in late 2010... it was on the second occasion that he collaberated with fail overflow who did indeed hack the console but did not post the keys online guess who took it upon himself to do it?


you said "If you can't accept facts what else can I do here?" the irony of this is killing me 


"None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers." :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public,               HACKERS               have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"


http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

There i highlighted the key word that makes all the difference in that sentance.

You asked if all of the psn hacks would have happened had geohot not done what he did, I showed how they would still happen if he did not exist.

His first hack did not result in anyone hacking the psn or pirating that came after fail over flows work. So again what did he do? Other people seem to have done all the bad things. You keep reposting that article but it clearly says other hackers did the damage after what geohot did. It definatly does not say geohot did it. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. I repeated on purpose as I keep having to say this in this thread



o_O.Q on 30 June 2011
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.

 

"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :


" 

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

"

...and your dates for his second exploit...  you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people

"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"

 

"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"

... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :

http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key

"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."

 


if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update

 

but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"

 

...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway

if your not going to read what you yourself post why bother arguing? None of what you posted shows geohot as hacking the psn or pirating. I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware ect and you still will not accept the facts. If you can't accept facts what else can I do here? Everything you post just shows that other people did the hacking or that sony removed otherOS cause of security concerns. None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers.

 

the article you posted was from after dec. the root jeys were made known at a hacking convention in dec 2010. before geohots release

 

you said "I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware"

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

extract form article above "hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year"

"you still will not accept the facts" what facts are you reffering to? it can't be the crap above

...its about at this point that im beginning to realise that you don't even understand the whole thing yourself geohot posted two hacks for the ps3 one in early 2010 and then the keys in late 2010... it was on the second occasion that he collaberated with fail overflow who did indeed hack the console but did not post the keys online guess who took it upon himself to do it?


you said "If you can't accept facts what else can I do here?" the irony of this is killing me 


"None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers." :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public,               HACKERS               have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"


http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

There i highlighted the key word that makes all the difference in that sentance.

You asked if all of the psn hacks would have happened had geohot not done what he did, I showed how they would still happen if he did not exist.

His first hack did not result in anyone hacking the psn or pirating that came after fail over flows work. So again what did he do? Other people seem to have done all the bad things. You keep reposting that article but it clearly says other hackers did the damage after what geohot did. It definatly does not say geohot did it. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. I repeated on purpose as I keep having to say this in this thread

"His first hack did not result in anyone hacking the psn or pirating" actually it did but not to the extent that the later hack caused guess why? because sony took out linux which was required to make the exploit work... had they left it in im quite sure that the ps3 would be facing the same piracy situation the psp is now not to mention the cheating online etc

"Other people seem to have done all the bad things." 

good grief that you could say that then come back and say this "it clearly says other hackers did the damage after what geohot did."

"after what geohot did" thats the point without him none of it would have happened is it really that hard to understand? you mentioned fail overflow but what have they done that affects me or any other psn user? nothing they weren't so inconsiderate to post keys online allowing people  to do this 

http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.htm

btw in case you didn't realise geohot was the reason fail overflow and other hackers got involved in hacking the ps3... they were upset about sony removing other os ( geohots fault btw well it is if you accept that sony was trying to protect their console which you don't seem to be able to ) 

"All he did was hack his console" if that was all that he did and his actions affected no one else then right now most people wouldn't even know who he is but obviously his actions affected people 



thranx on 30 June 2011
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.

 

"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :


" 

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

"

...and your dates for his second exploit...  you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people

"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"

 

"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"

... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :

http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key

"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."

 


if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update

 

but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"

 

...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway

if your not going to read what you yourself post why bother arguing? None of what you posted shows geohot as hacking the psn or pirating. I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware ect and you still will not accept the facts. If you can't accept facts what else can I do here? Everything you post just shows that other people did the hacking or that sony removed otherOS cause of security concerns. None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers.

 

the article you posted was from after dec. the root jeys were made known at a hacking convention in dec 2010. before geohots release

 

you said "I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware"

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

extract form article above "hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year"

"you still will not accept the facts" what facts are you reffering to? it can't be the crap above

...its about at this point that im beginning to realise that you don't even understand the whole thing yourself geohot posted two hacks for the ps3 one in early 2010 and then the keys in late 2010... it was on the second occasion that he collaberated with fail overflow who did indeed hack the console but did not post the keys online guess who took it upon himself to do it?


you said "If you can't accept facts what else can I do here?" the irony of this is killing me 


"None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers." :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public,               HACKERS               have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"


http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

There i highlighted the key word that makes all the difference in that sentance.

You asked if all of the psn hacks would have happened had geohot not done what he did, I showed how they would still happen if he did not exist.

His first hack did not result in anyone hacking the psn or pirating that came after fail over flows work. So again what did he do? Other people seem to have done all the bad things. You keep reposting that article but it clearly says other hackers did the damage after what geohot did. It definatly does not say geohot did it. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. I repeated on purpose as I keep having to say this in this thread

"His first hack did not result in anyone hacking the psn or pirating" actually it did but not to the extent that the later hack caused guess why? because sony took out linux which was required to make the exploit work... had they left it in im quite sure that the ps3 would be facing the same piracy situation the psp is now not to mention the cheating online etc

"Other people seem to have done all the bad things." 

good grief that you could say that then come back and say this "it clearly says other hackers did the damage after what geohot did."

"after what geohot did" thats the point without him none of it would have happened is it really that hard to understand? you mentioned fail overflow but what have they done that affects me or any other psn user? nothing they weren't so inconsiderate to post keys online allowing people  to do this 

http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.htm

btw in case you didn't realise geohot was the reason fail overflow and other hackers got involved in hacking the ps3... they were upset about sony removing other os ( geohots fault btw well it is if you accept that sony was trying to protect their console which you don't seem to be able to ) 

"All he did was hack his console" if that was all that he did and his actions affected no one else then right now most people wouldn't even know who he is but obviously his actions affected people 

Other people reacting to what geohot did or did not do does not equate to him doing those actions.



o_O.Q on 30 June 2011
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:


on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.

That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.

You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.

I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.


You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?

I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).

What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?

By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.

He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.

No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.

So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)

Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.

There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.

He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3.  He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.


without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/

 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

 

you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general 

other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to  fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.

 

edit: fix some spelling

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no

edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue 

Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.

all of which was enabled by geohot

 

with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?

 

Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.

 

And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"

lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :

"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?

that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article  now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?

 

Edit found the dates for the hacks

first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

over one month later

Geohot jan 23rd release

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/

 

so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.

 

"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :


" 

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

"

...and your dates for his second exploit...  you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people

"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"

 

"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"

... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :

http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key

"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."

 


if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update

 

but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"

 

...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway

if your not going to read what you yourself post why bother arguing? None of what you posted shows geohot as hacking the psn or pirating. I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware ect and you still will not accept the facts. If you can't accept facts what else can I do here? Everything you post just shows that other people did the hacking or that sony removed otherOS cause of security concerns. None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers.

 

the article you posted was from after dec. the root jeys were made known at a hacking convention in dec 2010. before geohots release

 

you said "I showed you how the psn was hacked before he released his firmware"

http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

extract form article above "hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year"

"you still will not accept the facts" what facts are you reffering to? it can't be the crap above

...its about at this point that im beginning to realise that you don't even understand the whole thing yourself geohot posted two hacks for the ps3 one in early 2010 and then the keys in late 2010... it was on the second occasion that he collaberated with fail overflow who did indeed hack the console but did not post the keys online guess who took it upon himself to do it?


you said "If you can't accept facts what else can I do here?" the irony of this is killing me 


"None of it show anything geohot did to harm sony or the psn or game makers." :

"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"

"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public,               HACKERS               have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"


http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/ 

an extract from that site :

"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:

First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support" 

 

There i highlighted the key word that makes all the difference in that sentance.

You asked if all of the psn hacks would have happened had geohot not done what he did, I showed how they would still happen if he did not exist.

His first hack did not result in anyone hacking the psn or pirating that came after fail over flows work. So again what did he do? Other people seem to have done all the bad things. You keep reposting that article but it clearly says other hackers did the damage after what geohot did. It definatly does not say geohot did it. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. All he did was hack his console and tell others how to the same. I repeated on purpose as I keep having to say this in this thread

"His first hack did not result in anyone hacking the psn or pirating" actually it did but not to the extent that the later hack caused guess why? because sony took out linux which was required to make the exploit work... had they left it in im quite sure that the ps3 would be facing the same piracy situation the psp is now not to mention the cheating online etc

"Other people seem to have done all the bad things." 

good grief that you could say that then come back and say this "it clearly says other hackers did the damage after what geohot did."

"after what geohot did" thats the point without him none of it would have happened is it really that hard to understand? you mentioned fail overflow but what have they done that affects me or any other psn user? nothing they weren't so inconsiderate to post keys online allowing people  to do this 

http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.htm

btw in case you didn't realise geohot was the reason fail overflow and other hackers got involved in hacking the ps3... they were upset about sony removing other os ( geohots fault btw well it is if you accept that sony was trying to protect their console which you don't seem to be able to ) 

"All he did was hack his console" if that was all that he did and his actions affected no one else then right now most people wouldn't even know who he is but obviously his actions affected people 

Other people reacting to what geohot did or did not do does not equate to him doing those actions.


that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have happened without him he is the direct source for all of it ( and that was always my point ) had he been considerate of others and not posted ways to break through the ps3s security intentionally we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now

furthermore you're taking it from his word that he never pirated or did anything nefarious but as i already demonstrated geohot is a lier... during the trial he claimed he had no knowledge of psn when the rap video he posted had psn as a tag... and i also remmeber him saying that after he hacked his ps3 he ran a super mario game on it... how did he do that if he didn't pirate a rom? i suppose maybe it is possible that he didn't pirate it but i think its much more likley it was an illegal rom 



Lastgengamer on 30 June 2011

Great, now maybe he wont have the time to compromise gaming systems anymore and actually do something productive.