o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
o_O.Q said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Joelcool7 said:
thranx said:
Kantor said:
thranx said:
on that same note sony should stop selling ps3's. without them supplying them to people, people would not be able to hack ps3 and then pirate games. look at sony enabling hackers and pirates, how dare they. Sony is hurting the industry with its enabling of piracy.
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That's like saying it's the store founder's fault for founding the store, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have been robbed.
You're also implying that Sony wanted this to happen, which is ridiculous.
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I know it is. I completely agree its ridiculous. But its the same as blaming Geohot for it. Thats why I said it, to show just how ridiculous it is.
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You read my metophore. Geo may not have done anything illegal himself. But he broke the store window (Security on PS3), he knew that by breaking the security that others would rob the store (Sony). He is so intelligent , how could anyone believe he didn't realize that by releasing his hack that others would use it for piracy?
I'm not saying GeoHotz is soully responsable or a criminal. But his actions lead to crimes being committed and he was obviously aware they would be. He broke into the store (PS3) and made it possible for theives to steal from that store (PS3).
What you said was radiculous. Kantor is absolutely right. Thats like saying its the stores fault for being robbed and as such nobody should make anything in the future or own any possesions because somebody might steal them. It makes no sense, how is it the retailers fault that some punk broke into their store and allowed hundreds to loot it?
By your logic we should be in the stone age, heck not even the stone age they still had wives and huts. Nobody should have anything to their name. Heck if a guy gets murdered its his fault for existing.
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He never did anything to anyones property but his own. He did not steal anyhting so your analogy does not really make sense. There is no way to spin it, what he did was perfectly legal and perfectly fine and something that has been done since electronics have been around.
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No thats not true, he provided the jail break hack info to everyone with a computer so that they could break Sony's security on their systems and run pirated software. So my metaphor stands. Had he only hacked his console that would be one thing but he hacked everyones consoles by releasing the hack and he brought down Sony's security system.
So yes he broke the window. Also he knew by providing everyone with this jail break that people would use it to pirate(Steal from the store)
Also I never said he stole anything, my metaphor was clear he took what the store owed him and had promised him. However in doing so he broke Sony's security allowing others to steal from Sony. He provided the hack and essentially broke Sony's security system.
There;s no way to spin it , any way you look at it Geo is not 100% innocent.
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He disabled piracy as well as he could in his firmware. What do you expect him to do? If sony cant protect its sytems against hackers how is geohot supposed too? Have you read up on the specifics of this whole incident? The firmware he released specificaly did not allow piracy. He is anti piracy. All he did was tell others how to get homebrew going on their own ps3s. He did not hack the psn or any games or any one elses ps3. He took nothing. He created something, you act as if he took something out of the ps3. He created a a program that adjust the firmware on the ps3. There is no store analogy just look at the facts as is. There is no moral dilema here. He midified something he owned that affected no one else. All the piracy and psn hacks were done by others people should focus on and complain about them. Not somebody who only did what was in his rights of woning that equiptment. Stop trying to spread the blame to him. If you go down that route than you must blame Sony and anyone who makes any tool that is remotely related to hacking, you can't just decide to only blame one of the tool makers can you? How is that fair? Best just to blame those with direct involvement. This is probably why sony settled, they realoised he did no wrong and they could find nothing wrong he did. I have yet to find any case where it is illegal or wrong to hack your own equiptment, I tried I really did. There just is no case out there.
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without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened? if not how the hell is he not to blame? the point at the end of the day no matter how much dancing around you do is that this all happened because he did not keep his hacks and thereby the results of his hacks to himself here he even apologises to the ps community for his bs :
http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/
an extract from that site :
"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:
First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"
you said some nonsense in your post about "He midified something he owned that affected no one else." <--- that is wrong if his actions affected no one else then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? quote from the article above "Before releasing" thats what this is about... him releasing hacks that then affect all of the users of psn and ps3s in general
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other peoples actions are what caused the problems on ths psn and piraticy. i dont know how else to say it. Facts are facts. Please show me any article about how he hurt the psn or pirated directly. Sony removed otheros not geohot, sony had a choice not to remove it. I am sorry if you can not see the facts here. all geohot did was modify a device he owned and tell other people how to do the same. its like saying you cant teach someone to fix a car up. He did not teach anyone how to break any laws or how to pirate, nor did he break any laws himself. so again what is the issue here? Be mad at those that pirate and those that hack the psn, both of wich are ciminaly wrong in the usa.
edit: fix some spelling
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"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" you haven't answered my question i would prefer a yes or no
edit : btw heres a paragraph from an article related to this issue
Another shareholder suggested that the hacker attacks may have been in response to inappropriate comments made from Sony's management. Stringer replied that Sony was simply attempting to protect its games-related intellectual properties from those who would attempt to gain free access. Executive Vice President Kaz Hirai also stepped in and said that Sony was targeted because they took a variety of steps to protect their intellectual property. This is something they were doing not just for themselves, but for a global eco system that includes developers, third party publishers and retailers.
all of which was enabled by geohot
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with out sonys tool the hacks would not have happened either. with out the tools of pc makers world wide the hacks would not have happened. does that answer your question?
Again it was sony's choice to remove otheros. it says it in that paragraph you posted.
And again all of this was enabled by sony just as much, so who is really to blame geohot or sony? They both supplied the "tools"
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lol if you don't want to answer the question just say so but i'll ask once again just in case you didn't understand or whatever :
"without geohot's tools would all of the resulting hacks have happened?" yes or no?
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that qeustioned cannot be answered unless we have a time machine to go back and see what happens. that is why i haven't directly answered. who knows? maybe someone else would have posted it. He was not the only one who did work on it nor was he the actual one who cracked it. he just assisted in parts of it. So the most likely answer is yes it all would of happened. I also believe the first psn hacks happened slightly before his release of info. can't find the article now as all google brings up are the recent psn hacks. But I will try some more tomorrow. This is all besides the point as it does not really matter, if you are going to blame him for the tools he made, equal blame must be put on sony and pc makers. You can't have it one sided and only blame some of the "tool" makers. that is the sole problem with your whole argument, i really can not spell it out any more than that. Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?
Edit found the dates for the hacks
first hacks fail over flow january 3rd 2011 (shown at dec 27 2010)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters
over one month later
Geohot jan 23rd release
http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2010/01/26/ps3-exploit-released/
so to answer your question YES all of this would have happended either way. Someone else had already done the work. So again what did he do so wrong? What else do you have? All he did was hack his own equiptment and teach others how to do the same.
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"Feel fre to post any links showing how geohot hacked the psn or pirated though, you still have not, how come?" actually i have several times but obviously you didn't bother to aknowledge anything that isn't positive concerning geohot heres what i posted before :
"
http://gamercrave.com/ps3-hacker-geohot-on-lost-linux-support-im-sorry/2349/
an extract from that site :
"Sony has only pinned the change on “security concerns,” but hacker George “Geohot” Hotz, who released the first-ever PS3 hack earlier this year (preceded by several high-profile iPhone jailbreaks), which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role:
First off, I want to apologize to all the people who use Linux on their PS3. Before releasing, I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"
"
...and your dates for his second exploit... you know... the one he released after he apoglogised for the first one after mentioning that he understood how it may effect people
"which could ultimately allow piracy or other nefarious uses of the consoles, believes he played a role"
"I weighed the pros and cons, and considered the possibility of an impact on OtherOS support"
... are wrong the exploit ( well i guess i actually mean keys ) were posted online by geohot last year :
http://www.1up.com/news/hacker-claims-ps3-root-key
"Hotz makes clear he doesn't intend the root key to be used for playing illegitimate game copies, writing, "no donate link, just use this info wisely. I do not condone piracy." But of course, with the key now out in the open (why do we suddenly feel shades of the first Mission: Impossible film?), there's really no way to police or restrict its use."
if i didn't already know geohot was a lier i would actually take that seriously but of course i know better this is the guy who said he had no idea what psn was... if he didn't know of psn then he wouldn't have known of psn updates which is what he claims started all of this in that sony removed other os ( after he exploited it ) through a psn update
but regardless after he posted the keys users soon felt the consequences of his actions :
"http://www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Hack_CoD_Modern_Warfare_Users_Bear_the_Brunt/551-114202-585.html"
"Not long after the prolific hacker George "geohot" Hotz made the PlayStation 3 root key public, hackers have it easy to exploit the consoles and its software"
...but yes as you mentioned other hackers like fail overflow also worked on exploits but they've also said they didn't plan to release the keys but of course geohot did it anyway
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