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Forums - Gaming - How powerful should Nex-Box and PS4 be?

 

How powerful should Sony and Microsoft's machines be

50% more powerful then PS3 (Inline with WiiU) 17 11.11%
 
60% more powerful then PS3 4 2.61%
 
70% more powerful then PS3 18 11.76%
 
80% more powerful then PS3 23 15.03%
 
90% more powerful then PS3 13 8.50%
 
100% more powerful then PS3 (Heavy price tag) 78 50.98%
 
Total:153

Let me try and say this in a slightly different way.

 

Unless MS and Sony are willing to create systems that are SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than the current generation then they just wont release them. There is no reason for them to release a console that is not significantly more powerful, the current systems are still selling well and Nintendo are not blowing them out of the water as at this time there is no need for next gen consoles unless MS and Sony want to cut Nintendo's supply of 3rd party ports.

But no I am sure MS and Sony want the platform holder that outsold them 2:1 without 3rd party support to get the majority of the games that core gamers brought the PS3 and PS4 instead of the Wii. And they are also happy for tablets to offer the same experiences as their systems  as they grow ever more powerful and can stream content to TVs and will soon offer wireless controller support. While in the mean time graphics hungry gamers flock to ever cheaper gaming PCs that offer visuals many times what consoles can offer. Yup makes perfect sense



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I think the top end of the poll should be about 300%, rather than 100.



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Funtime said:
I don't think the OP knows that 100% more powerful really only means 2x as powerful. If you think MS is going to release their next gen console at anything less than 8x as powerful as the PS3 you're living in La La Land.

Typically the upgrade in power from one gen to the next is closer to 16x the power is it not?

100% more powerful would not even be worth the investment for Sony or MS.


8 to 10 times as powerful is typical as a generational leap

I think the OP comes from the business analyst who claimed that the Wii U was "50% more powerful than the PS3" without mentioning a source; no one else has even suggested what kind of processing power it has.



The lowest point of the poll should be around 400-500%



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over 500%



Microsoft and Sony will release systems in the 350-500 price range. They will probably both sell their systems at a loss again so the actual system would probably cost around 450-650 (so whatever that is in power). I am pretty sure Sony learned their lessons on releasing a system in the 500-600 price range. Most consumers aren't going to drop 500-600 on a video game console even if it can do "everything".



10-15X as powerful and within the same price range as Wii U



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HappySqurriel said:

First off, what is meant by 50% or 100% more powerful? Are we talking about a perceived increase in processing power or an actual increase in processing power? If it is actual processing power who, beyond an analyst that has no technical background with an unnamed source, has made claims about the actual processing power of the Wii U?

If we're talking about perceived processing power, I think both Sony and Microsoft's next console with struggle with seeming only slightly more powerful than their current generation systems, There are three factors at play:

  1. Sony/Microsoft released bigger and more expensive systems which have far higher energy consumption than consoles typically have been in order to increase processing power this generation, and I expect they will return to a more standard console in the next generation. If they're looking to release a system for $400 without bleeding money, that is more in line with their slim versions of their current systems, it will certainly not be as much of a technical powerhouse when released.
  2. Diminishing returns eat away at how people see the improvement. When you look at the better looking elements of many of the better looking games they're about as high detail as we can really expect something to be in a videogame, and most of the graphical effects we will see in the next generation of consoles are already being done on the HD consoles, so what the improvements will be focused on is increasing detail on less important objects and stacking effects ontop of one another. While you will be able to see a difference, it won't really be groundbreaking.
  3. Limitations of game development costs. Even if developers have all the hardware resources to implement whatever they can imagine, if you need to put 4 times the manpower into creating games to give your graphics that generational jump beyond what the HD consoles are doing few publishers will pay for that. The average cost of a HD console game is in the $20 Million range, with many big budget games being $40+ Million, and if the costs increase this generation like they have every generation since the NES the average game would be closer to $80 Million with big budget games approaching $200 Million.

1. The current trend in mobile computers in the form of tablet, phones and notebooks is forcing hardware manufacturers to put a renewed focus on low heat low power proccesors. Combined with the longer than usual generation should meant that price, power and heat will be less of a factor going forword. There are many technologies like Nvidia and Intel's 3D procesors and alternative meterails that will start to hit in the next 2 years that will drive the negative factors down. Next year manufacturers are looking to leap to 22nm transisters from the current widely used 45nm for example by 2013 the likely release year for the next gen that will be a mature proccess. 

2. Deminishing returns will more likely lead to an even bigger push as it will be needed to show consumers new experiances that don't seem possible on the current generation. The generation coming up will also probably be the generation of consoles as we know them so it will benefit them to push for consoles that have a lot of staying power. Services like onLive will become actually viable over the next 5-10 years and will most likely replace consoles as they have many of the advantages over consoles as consoles have (or had) over PCs, in that you  don't need to worry about instaling games or keeping them up to date, you can jump into a game or watch someone else play with a click of a button and no need to buy games, just play what you want like netflix. Plus OnLive people are saying with distributed proccessing games will look like current CGI so if next gen consoles aren't pushing visuals OnLive will.

3. A large leap in power could also lead to cheaper games as costly time intensive tasks like pre baking shadow maps and lighting will be replaced with real time effects that can be turned on with the press of a button. Tessellation allows much more complex geometry to be generated procedurally and allows dynamic water and procedural deformation that will reduce the number of unique assets that need to be generated. And fidality doesn't really increase cost that much as most assets are currently "optomised" by reducing as much detail as possible while maintaining the look to improve performance, the real increase in cost over last generation came from the number of assets needed, where before is was ok to have a shelf be a texture on a box in this generation developers are already placing hundreds of assets in a house creating every vase, book, spoon etc but once you are already placing and creating the number of assets they are now there is not much point adding more than is realistic, it doesn't cost a lot to not compress the textures etc. Also procedural generated content will help lower costs, today it is mostly just used to create trees (every time you see a speed tree logo every tree in that game was procedurally generated) or maybe NPCs like in Assasin's creed next generation procedural generation will be used (or should be) for most background assets. Procedual buildings, NPCs, rocks, terrain and more will all be genrated procedurally rather than with hundreds of outsourced artists of course important assets like main characters will still be hand crafted for the perfect look and the assets that can't be easaly generated but proceduaral generation should help lower costs a lot.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:

1. The current trend in mobile computers in the form of tablet, phones and notebooks is forcing hardware manufacturers to put a renewed focus on low heat low power proccesors. Combined with the longer than usual generation should meant that price, power and heat will be less of a factor going forword. There are many technologies like Nvidia and Intel's 3D procesors and alternative meterails that will start to hit in the next 2 years that will drive the negative factors down. Next year manufacturers are looking to leap to 22nm transisters from the current widely used 45nm for example by 2013 the likely release year for the next gen that will be a mature proccess. 

2. Deminishing returns will more likely lead to an even bigger push as it will be needed to show consumers new experiances that don't seem possible on the current generation. The generation coming up will also probably be the generation of consoles as we know them so it will benefit them to push for consoles that have a lot of staying power. Services like onLive will become actually viable over the next 5-10 years and will most likely replace consoles as they have many of the advantages over consoles as consoles have (or had) over PCs, in that you  don't need to worry about instaling games or keeping them up to date, you can jump into a game or watch someone else play with a click of a button and no need to buy games, just play what you want like netflix. Plus OnLive people are saying with distributed proccessing games will look like current CGI so if next gen consoles aren't pushing visuals OnLive will.

3. A large leap in power could also lead to cheaper games as costly time intensive tasks like pre baking shadow maps and lighting will be replaced with real time effects that can be turned on with the press of a button. Tessellation allows much more complex geometry to be generated procedurally and allows dynamic water and procedural deformation that will reduce the number of unique assets that need to be generated. And fidality doesn't really increase cost that much as most assets are currently "optomised" by reducing as much detail as possible while maintaining the look to improve performance, the real increase in cost over last generation came from the number of assets needed, where before is was ok to have a shelf be a texture on a box in this generation developers are already placing hundreds of assets in a house creating every vase, book, spoon etc but once you are already placing and creating the number of assets they are now there is not much point adding more than is realistic, it doesn't cost a lot to not compress the textures etc. Also procedural generated content will help lower costs, today it is mostly just used to create trees (every time you see a speed tree logo every tree in that game was procedurally generated) or maybe NPCs like in Assasin's creed next generation procedural generation will be used (or should be) for most background assets. Procedual buildings, NPCs, rocks, terrain and more will all be genrated procedurally rather than with hundreds of outsourced artists of course important assets like main characters will still be hand crafted for the perfect look and the assets that can't be easaly generated but proceduaral generation should help lower costs a lot.

Game production costs will continue to rise no matter how many cost savings that can be had by improved technology.  The publishers have turned the video game industry into the Hollywood mentality.  Only the wise publishers will curb their cost while still providing a great product.  I believe even more 3rd party publishers will either go out of business or be absorbed by Activision, EA, etc... next generation.