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Forums - NSFW - Slutwalks, rape and the blame game

sapphi_snake on 12 June 2011
Porcupine_I said:
sapphi_snake said:
Porcupine_I said:

i completely agree! it can never be the rape victims responsibility to have been raped. no matter how she was dressed or where she went. it's absolutely the culprits responsibility and they are the only ones at fault for the crime.

however you raise a few interesting subjects.

 Obviously no one's telling them to walk on the streets alone at night.

and why is that?  because it is common sense? because they should be knowing that anyway? because it is dangerous for anyone?

It's not as if she's stepping on hot coal and getting her legs burnt. 

same! common knowledge! do not step on hot coal, or if you have to go in the hot coal area wear the right shoes! is that what you are saying? i don't think anyone would disagree with that.

anyway, my point is it can never be theit fault if they are victims of a rape. but will that knowledge help them if they do get raped? i don't think so.

 

 

Getting burned if touching hot coal is a natural consequence of said act. Rape is not a natural consequence of wearing revealing clothing.

i am sure rape victims will find that interesting to know.

Yep, I'm quite sure that rape victims will be very happy to know that they were not raped because they were wearing revealing clothing, thus it not being their fault.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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kurasakiichimaru on 12 June 2011
mantlepiecek said:
sapphi_snake said:
mantlepiecek said:

He said don't dress like sluts to avoid being victimized. I don't see the big deal.

The only way this would be a big deal is if people wanted to dress like sluts.

"Don't wanna get raped? Don't dress like a slut!" is hardly what he said. He didn't say that sluts are the only people that get raped. Your assumption implies that.

He did not say that sluts are the ONLY people to get raped, but he did suggest that a slut is "asking for it", as in she's already said "yes" even before you ask her.

And what makes you think that women don't wanna dress like sluts? These women who are protesting are actually taking offence to the fact that they're being demeaned by society (mostly men) for dressing a certain way. I bet the first thing that police officer did when he got home was to go on a porno site, and watch a porn film starring a "slut". It's actually quite funny: traditional patriarchal society sure loves hailing frigid women, but it's still the "sluts" that men end up turning to.

So wait women want to dress like sluts but they should not be called sluts? Again, "avoid being victimized" doesn't in anyway mean "they have already said yes" you are assuming this.

I am not sure why you are assuming this way though.

The way I see it the policeman is saying that if women dress like sluts, then the rapists would think she has already said yes. He is not a rapist so I really don't understand the backlash at him?

And these slut women that are being demeaned by the society....what makes you think its mostly men? That's just ridiculous. If anything I would say men are the most kind towards them. You have obviously not seen some of the women criticize the way women flaunt their body as a sign of a bad influence/etc etc.

The policeman should've minded his own business.

And society is changing. Look around you, do you still see the same thing over and over?


And women loves to gossip of their own kind especially the bad things about them like their clothes, weight, etc.  That's why the slut word is being thrown around needlessly.It's a behaviour that I find unacceptable yet highly amusing but you just just gotta go with the flow and stay quiet or you'll be in trouble. :P Women are the worst enemy you'll ever find. tbh. Haha



oldschoolfool on 12 June 2011

If a women dresses like a slut that doesn't mean she deserves to be raped. There is nothing funny about rape and it's one of the lowest things a human being can do in my mind. The police guy should have chosen his words more carefully. It made it sound like he was blaming the victim.



MrBubbles on 12 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
MrBubbles said:
sapphi_snake said:
MrBubbles said:
you cover yourself in honey and walk through the woods. whos fault is it when a bear rips you open.

They say that animals are purely driven by instinct, wheras humans have rational thought. Due to this you presented a bad analogy. As I said before, rape is not a natural consequence of wearing revealing clothing.


why dont you go and ask them how many feel they were thinking rationally at the time of the rape.  i guarantee you not many, if any, will tell you they were.

as one would take care venturing into bear territory, so too should they take such care when going out.

There's no excuse for a human being to not think rationally. If they weren't thinking rationally, it's because they didn't want to (unless you're suggesting that they became controlled by some unknown force triggered by the revealing clothing, case in which you're releasing them of blame and putting it all on the victim - welcome to before the 20th century!!!).


sort of makes me want to get into a discussion about whether free will and choice even exist in the first place...

if someone is not thinking rationally how are they going to decide to think rationally?  especially if theyve been drinking.  humans are animals and quite often driven by animal instincts that are not rational in the least.  to just say that all humans think rationally all the time unless they dont want to is a pretty crazy position to take. 

and no, it doesnt relieve them of responsibilty.  people are responsible for their actions regardless of their state of mind.

 

lets say i decide to walk through a "bad" neighbourhood...its the evening, ive got expensive clothes on, flashy jewelery, visible electronics, and openly counting a large stack of cash.  i get jumped and robbed.  were my decisions smart ones?  could this event have been prevented by making other choices for myself?



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

mantlepiecek on 12 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
mantlepiecek said:

So wait women want to dress like sluts but they should not be called sluts? Again, "avoid being victimized" doesn't in anyway mean "they have already said yes" you are assuming this.

I am not sure why you are assuming this way though.

The way I see it the policeman is saying that if women dress like sluts, then the rapists would think she has already said yes. He is not a rapist so I really don't understand the backlash at him?

And these slut women that are being demeaned by the society....what makes you think its mostly men? That's just ridiculous. If anything I would say men are the most kind towards them. You have obviously not seen some of the women criticize the way women flaunt their body as a sign of a bad influence/etc etc.

No, he is saying that "sluts" are generally considered to automatically say "yes".

 

And why should women be demeaned by society for wearing a certain type of clothing? What is a "slut"? Why is being a slut bad? Traditional society tries to repress women's sexuality, stigmatising women for having sexual desires. In the traditional view women should not enjoy, or even be interested in sex. Sex is something that they should use to make men happy, in other words sex should be used as a tool (to satisfy the husband, to concieve a child). A woman that is usually described as a "slut" is really no  different regarding sex than a regular man, however traditional patriarchal society is afraid of allowing women to have sexual desires similar to men. Sex is about power, and it's something men should enjoy, while women should limit themselves to being mere objects for men's enjoyment. They musn't enjoy sex in the traditional view. Quite the contrary, the more frigid, the more respected.

 

Prettyy much all societies have been controlled by men, and men are the ones who created these social rules., mainly because they were afraid of women demanding equality with them. The reason why many women end up respecting these rules is simply because women are conditioned by society to think that way. Not all women are feminists. And men don't really care for slots generally, other than using them as sexual objects. When it comes to marriage (especially in more traditional cultures) they typically still go for the frigid women (despite this being very counter/productive, as they'll end up cheating).

So what is this society you are talking about? Men control societies probably because they are more aggressive than women, have you ever thought of that? Traditional this traditional that, the world is hardly traditional anymore.

If you go around showing off, then whether you are a man or a woman, you will be disrespected by a certain crowd in the society. I guess the difference is you see less men walking in their underwear on the streets or even shirtless. Women obviously show off more than men. Showing off your arms = /= showing off your cleavage. Although I don't really have a problem with either.



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kurasakiichimaru on 12 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
mantlepiecek said:

So wait women want to dress like sluts but they should not be called sluts? Again, "avoid being victimized" doesn't in anyway mean "they have already said yes" you are assuming this.

I am not sure why you are assuming this way though.

The way I see it the policeman is saying that if women dress like sluts, then the rapists would think she has already said yes. He is not a rapist so I really don't understand the backlash at him?

And these slut women that are being demeaned by the society....what makes you think its mostly men? That's just ridiculous. If anything I would say men are the most kind towards them. You have obviously not seen some of the women criticize the way women flaunt their body as a sign of a bad influence/etc etc.

No, he is saying that "sluts" are generally considered to automatically say "yes".

 

And why should women be demeaned by society for wearing a certain type of clothing? What is a "slut"? Why is being a slut bad? Traditional society tries to repress women's sexuality, stigmatising women for having sexual desires. In the traditional view women should not enjoy, or even be interested in sex. Sex is something that they should use to make men happy, in other words sex should be used as a tool (to satisfy the husband, to concieve a child). A woman that is usually described as a "slut" is really no  different regarding sex than a regular man, however traditional patriarchal society is afraid of allowing women to have sexual desires similar to men. Sex is about power, and it's something men should enjoy, while women should limit themselves to being mere objects for men's enjoyment. They musn't enjoy sex in the traditional view. Quite the contrary, the more frigid, the more respected.

 

Prettyy much all societies have been controlled by men, and men are the ones who created these social rules., mainly because they were afraid of women demanding equality with them. The reason why many women end up respecting these rules is simply because women are conditioned by society to think that way. Not all women are feminists. And men don't really care for slots generally, other than using them as sexual objects. When it comes to marriage (especially in more traditional cultures) they typically still go for the frigid women (despite this being very counter/productive, as they'll end up cheating).


That is true.


And we need to remember that whoever invented clothing from a long long long time ago, didn't invent it to cover your penis, vagina, breast or whatever. Those were invented to protect you from cold. And summer is approaching already, it's hot. What do you the policeman expected them to do. Put a jacket on so they won't be called sluts? lol



MrBubbles on 12 June 2011
kurasakiichimaru said:

The policeman should've minded his own business.


he and another officer were speaking to a group women at a university about safety.  it was his business.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

kurasakiichimaru on 12 June 2011
MrBubbles said:
kurasakiichimaru said:
 

The policeman should've minded his own business.


he and another officer were speaking to a group women at a university about safety.  it was his business.

Edit:Okay so revealing your skin in a crowded place, the girls will be raped after they get the rapists' attention especially if you have your friends with you. lol





sapphi_snake on 12 June 2011
MrBubbles said:


sort of makes me want to get into a discussion about whether free will and choice even exist in the first place...

if someone is not thinking rationally how are they going to decide to think rationally?  especially if theyve been drinking.  humans are animals and quite off driven by animal instincts that are not rational in the least.  to just say that all humans think rationally all they time in less they dont want to is a pretty crazy position to take. 

and no, it doesnt relieve them of responsibilty.  people are responsible for their actions regardless of their state of mind.

 

lets say i decide to walk through a "bad" neighbourhood...its the evening, ive got expensive clothes on, flashy jewelery, visible electronics, and openly counting a large stack of cash.  i get jumped and robbed.  were my decisions smart ones?  could this event have been prevented by making other choices for myself?

You're right that human beings aren't constantly rational. At the end of the day we're just animals, only we're significantly more intellinget than others. However, as you yourself said, we are responsable for our actions, especially when those actions may cause harm to others. The only person responsable for a rape os the rapest him/herself.

 

As for your last paragraph, the example is somewhat extreme. The officer was suggesting that women in general should not wear "slutty" clothes, and ultimately he was making a moral judgment regarding women, and how they should behave sexually.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

forest-spirit on 12 June 2011

You are crazy if you think dressing sexy won't draw some attention, just like dressing outside of the norm draws attention to you.

However, dressing like that does in no way whatsoever make you less of a victim. That's retarded and the kind of thinking I associate with extreme islamists or other religious fanatics. Normal people do not rape. A valid excuse for raping someone does not exist.

The policemen may have meant it in a different way and maybe just wanted to warn the girls because he knows that there are lots of sick and disgusting persons out there. No matter what he actually meant his wording was beyond terrible and it sounded like he put blame on the victims.


One last thing I'd like to add is I don't believe that there would be less rapes if all women started dressing in long skirts and fully covering tops. Instead, we would just find something else to use to put the blame on the victim instead of the worthless maggot that did the raping.
I'm sure that during the Victorian Age women were begging for it if they showed their feet, just like women in some countries today are begging for it if they show their freaking face.