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Forums - Politics - Circumcision ban getting people snippy.

To those saying that foreskin can just be grown back, it is not quite true...

Would you say that the skin of your hand is mildly sensitive, or would you say that it is very sensitive? The answer is both as the back of your hand is mildly sensitive and the palm of your hand is very sensitive.

The same apply to your foreskin, the outside part that covers the glans is not very sensitive but the inside part is much more sensitive, not as much as the glans but much more than the skin on the rest of the shaft.

When an uncircumcised man gets an erection that sensitive skin get revealed as the foreskin pulls back as the penis get bigger, and, being attached to the bottom of the glans, that sensitive skin is the second thing to come in contact with your partner's vaginal/rectal wall (after the glans of course).

Unfortunately , during circumcision, most of that sensitive skin is cut away, leaving only a small band at the base of the glans (those of you who are cut might be able to see a slightly different skintone there, though I don't know if it keeps its sensitivity over the years as it is not protected anymore).

When a cut guy undergoes foreskin restoration (lol, almost wrote foreskin restauration) most of the skin that grows back is skin from the shaft, which doesn't have the same sensitivity as inner foreskin so while you can restore a natural look you cannot restore the natural feel.



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

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MrBubbles said:


odd...as a group anyone not speaking against it seemed to be the most calm and rational people throughout this entire discussion.  every other post from someone against seems to be accusing everyone not against it of butchering children and start coming up with the most absurd points and arguments....especially when throwing around things that are not fact, like a supposed decreased sensitivity eventhough there are studies that show both an increased and decreased sensitivity.  the most outraged people in this thread seem to be people it doesnt concern at all...perhaps they are all just upset women like the circumsized look better.  *shrugs*

Well, when I think about circuncision, uh, you know when someone is hit in the balls and you can feel it too? It's kind of like that but with a knife. The simple idea can be frankly frightening to not circuncised men. Maybe that's the reason for the bigger commotion and the butchering accusations.

I do hate the idea and would never do it to a son but I do realise this is highly cultural and not that offensive to the child. I also hate when people try to use certain terms for their impact rather than how well they describe a situation (and that goes beyond a dictionary's definition), and rationally I sure think calling circuncision mutilation is silly. But emotionally, it does kinda feel right :P

To be honest I don't know and haven't done any deep research on the issue (it's not even anything you'd think about around here), but my impression is that it's at least, idk, 'over-medication'. One thing is for sure though (but more relevant in cultures where the practice isn't commom place): I'm completely against it if it's done to a baby for religious reasons. But that's not whats being discussed, so yeah.

Idk, circuncision for any non-(good)medical reason just feels so wrong, and the argument that people won't clean as well is ridiculous and not getting it done is thus dangerous is ridiculous, but since I can't really show it's harmfull I wouldn't try to proibit it either based on what I know and people have been able to show thus far.



elticker said:
sapphi_snake said:
elticker said:



you have anything to back it up. over here almost all babies are circumsized and i have neeeeeeveeeeeeeer heard anyone say they want it back.

MrBubbles didn't provide anything to back up his claim either. The fact that this movement exists, and that foreskin reperative treatment is researched, shows that there are many people unsatisfied with not havibg foreskins. Also, you can't compare the mentality of someone from a fundementalist muslim country with someone from a secular democracy, where things like human rights are actually valued. Men in your country don't even realise the abuse that's done to them, and what's worse is tha they perpetuate it under the guise of "religion".

we don't even know if most of them are circumsized. for all you know you could have like over 90 to 95% with foreskin so unless you could go out film them naked everyone of them you wouldn't be able to prove that they have or dont have foreskin besides there probably are females in there which makes you point mute since females don't know how it is to have or not have foreskin.

by your logic the fact that there are communist movements and communist parties in various parts of the world means that many people are no satisfied with their political system and want communism. and please don't compare our countries, the fact that romania pretty much murdered anyone who was suspected of being part of corruption in their bloody revolution while we have civilsin trails for our president and anyone suspected of corruption with evidence provided for their accusations.

 hint for weak minded people: they dont have a thomas jones

But that is actually true. Plus, there are places where Communists are the majority.

And other than the dictator (not president, but dictator) and his wife, no one was murdered. Actually, all of the corrupt communist leaders got off, and are now our current politicians.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

elticker said:
its funny of how you accuse egypt of being fundamentalist muslim country, no human rights when you were the guys who have done a pretty bloody revolution and acted like animals after the revolution worked murdering the presidents without any fair or even close to fair trails and not him alone but alot of people with him(it was pretty much a massacare, genocide against anyone who was associated with the communist leadership), much of human rights where we egypt had a white revolution and they are currently standing fair trails.
fundamentalist muslim country my ass when 90% egyptains are crying out for a seperation between religion and the state (politics) and this will be proven in the next presidentail elections where i dare you and bet that no islamic minded candidate will have over 10%

What are you smoking? No one other than the dictator and his wife were killed. And the only person who tried to commit genocide was the dictator who ordered the army to kill the protesters. If the revolution was bloody, he's to blame for it.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

I really don't understand you people. All this talk about decreased sensitivity, increased sensitivity, hygene etc. is all pointless. Bottom line: the foreskin belongs to the child, and he should decide what he does with it when he's old enough, unless the removal is required due to medical reasons (like phimosis). Otherwise it's an unecessary procedure, that has no valid justification whatsoever.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
elticker said:
its funny of how you accuse egypt of being fundamentalist muslim country, no human rights when you were the guys who have done a pretty bloody revolution and acted like animals after the revolution worked murdering the presidents without any fair or even close to fair trails and not him alone but alot of people with him(it was pretty much a massacare, genocide against anyone who was associated with the communist leadership), much of human rights where we egypt had a white revolution and they are currently standing fair trails.
fundamentalist muslim country my ass when 90% egyptains are crying out for a seperation between religion and the state (politics) and this will be proven in the next presidentail elections where i dare you and bet that no islamic minded candidate will have over 10%

What are you smoking? No one other than the dictator and his wife were killed. And the only person who tried to commit genocide was the dictator who ordered the army to kill the protesters. If the revolution was bloody, he's to blame for it.

mubarak ordered the army to fire and the army refused, i actaully have the newspaper which has our chieff of starr same annan saying that they got presidentail orders to burn tahrir square to the ground but they refused and even if the army heads ordered there would be a coup as the our military is closely bonded to the egyptain public, we cheared when they went to the streets, recieveing orders is not the same like obeying orders, your army fired at protestors and i think protestors where pretty scared when the army went to the street, while our army refused and not one shot was fired at protestors.

http://wlcentral.org/node/1298

Reporting in the Independent on Friday, Robert Fisk tells us that Hosni Mubarak had ordered the massacre of the people in Tahrir Square:

the critical moment came on the evening of 30 January when, it is now clear, Mubarak ordered the Egyptian Third Army to crush the demonstrators in Tahrir Square with their tanks after flying F-16 fighter bombers at low level over the protesters.

Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.

Fisk's report was raised near the end of 2011-02-13 Tales of Tyrants: Ben Ali, Mubarak & Suleiman yesterday but we feel it is important enough to bear repeating and elaboration:

Please note also something else that can be deduced from Robert Fisk's description of these events. Namely that it was the low level officers in the tanks, the ones that got their orders over headsets, that refused to carry out the mass murder in Tahrir Square. Had the top brass refused Mubarak, those orders never would have been heard over headsets.

It was soldiers with cell phones that stopped the slaughter. It was the low level officers and tank commanders that organized a mutiny and refused to carry out the massacre. We now know that when an army spokesman announced on state TV the day after the refused massacre, that “the armed forces will not resort to use of force against our great people.” He was not speaking of the will or morality of the supreme military council, he was speaking of their limitations. He was referring to a power they had attempted to exercise but failed to exercise the night before

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/162806.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution_of_1989

waw you are now shifting stances. you said society is to blame for everything and now it is the dictator is to blame, interesting. when i recieve orders i can choose to not do it you know that right. it was societies fault for the bloody revolution as they accepted the orders and romania pretty much became a jungle with animals killing each other.

take a look at the first paragraph it shows how much our people have more values than yours because we disobeyed and not one bullet was fired against protestors, so where are the no human rights, fundamentalist muslim country now. They disobeyed even when orders where coming from high command which i daught but they disobeyed which makes me proud to be an egyptain, your army could have too but they didn't just like dogs.

why the fuck would you not trail him like human beings and murdered him and not him alone but his wife too thats pretty animalistic and inhumane to the greatest degree don't you agree.

also you didn't answer me how are we a fundemalistic muslim country when we used to jail up the muslim brother hood, no censorship on porn, no fundamalestic muslim country does that and we have 10% christain population.

bottom line: we are more humane than you romanains are so don't even compare us to you



 

 

here are more sources
http://www.mediaite.com/online/overlooked-mubarak-ordered-egyptian-army-to-crush-demonstrators-in-tahrir-square/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/14/944359/-Senior-Egyptian-Army-Officers-Ordered-Massacre!
http://polizeros.com/2011/02/15/mubarak-and-senior-military-ordered-protesters-killed-low-level-army-refused/



 

 

elticker said:

mubarak ordered the army to fire and the army refused, i actaully have the newspaper which has our chieff of starr same annan saying that they got presidentail orders to burn tahrir square to the ground but they refused and even if the army heads ordered there would be a coup as the our military is closely bonded to the egyptain public, we cheared when they went to the streets, recieveing orders is not the same like obeying orders, your army fired at protestors and i think protestors where pretty scared when the army went to the street, while our army refused and not one shot was fired at protestors.

http://wlcentral.org/node/1298

Reporting in the Independent on Friday, Robert Fisk tells us that Hosni Mubarak had ordered the massacre of the people in Tahrir Square:

the critical moment came on the evening of 30 January when, it is now clear, Mubarak ordered the Egyptian Third Army to crush the demonstrators in Tahrir Square with their tanks after flying F-16 fighter bombers at low level over the protesters.

Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.

Fisk's report was raised near the end of 2011-02-13 Tales of Tyrants: Ben Ali, Mubarak & Suleiman yesterday but we feel it is important enough to bear repeating and elaboration:

Please note also something else that can be deduced from Robert Fisk's description of these events. Namely that it was the low level officers in the tanks, the ones that got their orders over headsets, that refused to carry out the mass murder in Tahrir Square. Had the top brass refused Mubarak, those orders never would have been heard over headsets.

It was soldiers with cell phones that stopped the slaughter. It was the low level officers and tank commanders that organized a mutiny and refused to carry out the massacre. We now know that when an army spokesman announced on state TV the day after the refused massacre, that “the armed forces will not resort to use of force against our great people.” He was not speaking of the will or morality of the supreme military council, he was speaking of their limitations. He was referring to a power they had attempted to exercise but failed to exercise the night before

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/162806.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution_of_1989

waw you are now shifting stances. you said society is to blame for everything and now it is the dictator is to blame, interesting. when i recieve orders i can choose to not do it you know that right. it was societies fault for the bloody revolution as they accepted the orders and romania pretty much became a jungle with animals killing each other.

take a look at the first paragraph it shows how much our people have more values than yours because we disobeyed and not one bullet was fired against protestors, so where are the no human rights, fundamentalist muslim country now. They disobeyed even when orders where coming from high command which i daught but they disobeyed which makes me proud to be an egyptain, your army could have too but they didn't just like dogs.

why the fuck would you not trail him like human beings and murdered him and not him alone but his wife too thats pretty animalistic and inhumane to the greatest degree don't you agree.

also you didn't answer me how are we a fundemalistic muslim country when we used to jail up the muslim brother hood, no censorship on porn, no fundamalestic muslim country does that and we have 10% christain population.

bottom line: we are more humane than you romanains are so don't even compare us to you

Obviously you know little about Communist society. You follow orders and you don't question them or else you disappear misteriously and are never heard from again.

 

The dicator got a fair trial. He was guilty of all the things he was accussed of (genocide, ordering the army to fire against the people). I don't agree with the death penalty, but the protesters were in overkill. His wife was part of the country's leadership, and she was just as guilty as he was.

 

I don't know what crimes Muraback has committed, or if he has committed any, but what's for sure is that, unlike Ceauşescu, he will not be punished. 

 

Also, Muraback used to jail the Muslim Brotherhood. Seems like they're gaining traction, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if an extremist Islamic state will rise to power after the elections in September. This Muraback guy seems to have been very secular, and revolutions against such individual tend to be hijacked by religious extremists (Iran is a good example). Better keep watching that porn while it's still legal, 'cause soon you may be returning to traditional Islamic "values".

 

I suppose you also think you're better than the French, after all they did have that bloody French Revolution and all... I won't try to paint Romanian's as progressive, and humane, because they're not. Most Romanian's are very right-wing, they're religous fundementalists, they're racists, anti-semites, misogynists and homophobes. If it weren't for the EU we'd be in the Dark Ages, and most of the people who are against the EU over here are upset that the EU is ruining are "culture" and "values" (like not being able to denigrate gypsies or send gays to jail or deny the Holocaust happened or force non-Christians to pray in school). I don't think I've ever given Romanian's as an example as the epitome of civilization and humanity.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
elticker said:

mubarak ordered the army to fire and the army refused, i actaully have the newspaper which has our chieff of starr same annan saying that they got presidentail orders to burn tahrir square to the ground but they refused and even if the army heads ordered there would be a coup as the our military is closely bonded to the egyptain public, we cheared when they went to the streets, recieveing orders is not the same like obeying orders, your army fired at protestors and i think protestors where pretty scared when the army went to the street, while our army refused and not one shot was fired at protestors.

http://wlcentral.org/node/1298

Reporting in the Independent on Friday, Robert Fisk tells us that Hosni Mubarak had ordered the massacre of the people in Tahrir Square:

the critical moment came on the evening of 30 January when, it is now clear, Mubarak ordered the Egyptian Third Army to crush the demonstrators in Tahrir Square with their tanks after flying F-16 fighter bombers at low level over the protesters.

Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.

Fisk's report was raised near the end of 2011-02-13 Tales of Tyrants: Ben Ali, Mubarak & Suleiman yesterday but we feel it is important enough to bear repeating and elaboration:

Please note also something else that can be deduced from Robert Fisk's description of these events. Namely that it was the low level officers in the tanks, the ones that got their orders over headsets, that refused to carry out the mass murder in Tahrir Square. Had the top brass refused Mubarak, those orders never would have been heard over headsets.

It was soldiers with cell phones that stopped the slaughter. It was the low level officers and tank commanders that organized a mutiny and refused to carry out the massacre. We now know that when an army spokesman announced on state TV the day after the refused massacre, that “the armed forces will not resort to use of force against our great people.” He was not speaking of the will or morality of the supreme military council, he was speaking of their limitations. He was referring to a power they had attempted to exercise but failed to exercise the night before

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/162806.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution_of_1989

waw you are now shifting stances. you said society is to blame for everything and now it is the dictator is to blame, interesting. when i recieve orders i can choose to not do it you know that right. it was societies fault for the bloody revolution as they accepted the orders and romania pretty much became a jungle with animals killing each other.

take a look at the first paragraph it shows how much our people have more values than yours because we disobeyed and not one bullet was fired against protestors, so where are the no human rights, fundamentalist muslim country now. They disobeyed even when orders where coming from high command which i daught but they disobeyed which makes me proud to be an egyptain, your army could have too but they didn't just like dogs.

why the fuck would you not trail him like human beings and murdered him and not him alone but his wife too thats pretty animalistic and inhumane to the greatest degree don't you agree.

also you didn't answer me how are we a fundemalistic muslim country when we used to jail up the muslim brother hood, no censorship on porn, no fundamalestic muslim country does that and we have 10% christain population.

bottom line: we are more humane than you romanains are so don't even compare us to you

Obviously you know little about Communist society. You follow orders and you don't question them or else you disappear misteriously and are never heard from again.

 

The dicator got a fair trial. He was guilty of all the things he was accussed of (genocide, ordering the army to fire against the people). I don't agree with the death penalty, but the protesters were in overkill. His wife was part of the country's leadership, and she was just as guilty as he was.

 

I don't know what crimes Muraback has committed, or if he has committed any, but what's for sure is that, unlike Ceauşescu, he will not be punished. 

 

Also, Muraback used to jail the Muslim Brotherhood. Seems like they're gaining traction, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if an extremist Islamic state will rise to power after the elections in September. This Muraback guy seems to have been very secular, and revolutions against such individual tend to be hijacked by religious extremists (Iran is a good example). Better keep watching that porn while it's still legal, 'cause soon you may be returning to traditional Islamic "values".

 

I suppose you also think you're better than the French, after all they did have that bloody French Revolution and all... I won't try to paint Romanian's as progressive, and humane, because they're not. Most Romanian's are very right-wing, they're religous fundementalists, they're racists, anti-semites, misogynists and homophobes. If it weren't for the EU we'd be in the Dark Ages, and most of the people who are against the EU over here are upset that the EU is ruining are "culture" and "values" (like not being able to denigrate gypsies or send gays to jail or deny the Holocaust happened or force non-Christians to pray in school). I don't think I've ever given Romanian's as an example as the epitome of civilization and humanity.


that happens in egypt too and alot.

three days is a fair trail dam thats so fair i wish i could be more fair and make it a 5 second trail.

mubaraks wife was the same thing but it is his fault for being bossed around by hise wife not his wife's fault.

if that happens i predict another revolution cause he has done so much bad to egypt,

  • he devalued our currency we used ot be stronger than the us dollar and now 6 egy to 1 us
  •  we have one of the highest rate of kidney failure due to him and his health policies and food policis along with
  • one of the highest rates of cancer due to him,
  • 40% poverty in egypt thanks to him (living under 2 us dollars a day),
  • about 50% of graduates can't work and you have a higher chance of working if you finish high school than if you go to uni
  • he sold gas to our enemies israel for almost free when we import gas at global prices
  • he killed protestors in tahrir sqaure by ordering police to open fire
  • he jailed anyone who spoke against his regime
  • he continued implementing the emergency law which let the police act like our masters and we are slaves and tortured us
  • he destroyed agriculture industry in egypt and let us import wheat from outside
  • he destroyed any anti corruption mechanism making egypt at the highest level of corruption in its history
  • he forged accusations to jail up political oponents and celebraties who speak against him
  • in his reign the egyptains are treated like animals in their own country and outside their own country thanks to his shitty foreign policy
  • we egypt were once a regional superpower and now are strugling to find the food to feed our children
  • the country was being stolen by bussness men and he didn't move a finger
  • much more that i couldn't remember at the moment

we earned our human rights after the revolution

  •  the police now respects us and can't treat us like they did in mubaraks reign 
  •  our foreign policy under nabil elaraby is excellent
  •  we are now fighting corruption and literaly him and his whole cabinet is at jail along with people from his party cause of corruption, charges of killing protestors and charges of wasting egypts resources and selling gas to israel for below the global prices while we import gas at global prices for our use.
  • emergency law has been relaxed
  •  investigation is going on on killing of celeberties and forgery.
  • huge projects are under way to increase employment.
  • new measures are being implemented to make sure that level of corruption never returns.
  •  cancelleation of state security and starting homeland security.
  • dissolution of the ndp
  • and lots more which i can't bother to type

we are trying our best and hope to suceed however we never were a funadmentalist muslim country, we did have no human rights but we earned it after the revolution.

 

you know israel had a day of greifing on mubarak step down of power which shows how much he benefitted them and damaged us, since we egypt alwaysw consider israel our main enemy and have a cold peace with them, personally i have no problem with keeping the cold peace as we benefit from it and a war anytime soon would have a devastating effect on our economy.

 

also i wonder how such a society produced you, it seems pretty contradictory.



 

 

also the french revolution was a very bloody revolution.