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Forums - General Discussion - WHAT IS THE POOREST COUNTRY OF THE WORLD ?

mjk45 on 25 May 2011


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mjk45 on 25 May 2011

Zimbabwe was ranked the world poorest country in 2010 by the International Monetry Fund  due to it's extreme hyper inflation rate of 87.9 sextillion with inflation doubling  every 1.1 days .

Its GDP is $0.1

the next poorest country is The democtratic Republic Of the Congo (not to be confused with the Republic of Congo)

GDP $334

Note: it is GDP Gross Domestic Product that is used to denote how rich or poor a country is rated.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

SamuelRSmith on 25 May 2011
mjk45 said:

Zimbabwe was ranked the world poorest country in 2010 by the International Monetry Fund  due to it's extreme hyper inflation rate of 87.9 sextillion with inflation doubling  every 1.1 days .

Its GDP is $0.1

the next poorest country is The democtratic Republic Of the Congo (not to be confused with the Republic of Congo)

GDP $334

Note: it is GDP Gross Domestic Product that is used to denote how rich or poor a country is rated.


Of course, by this point, GDP becomes a totally irrelavent means of measuring Zimbabwe's economy, as they would have found a substitute, such as bartering, to their currency. The standards of living will be low in Zimbabwe, no doubt, but not as low as this measure suggests.



Lostplanet22 on 25 May 2011
SamuelRSmith said:
Lostplanet22 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
libellule said:
SamuelRSmith said:

This is exports-imports. This doesn't rank wealth, at all. In fact, as current accounts will always, by definition, end up balancing, this implies that in the future, the USA will have one of the largest trade surplusses in the world, and China, the largest trade deficit (either that, or minimal surplus/deficit for very, very, very long periods of time).

This is, in no way, a measure of how rich or poor a country is.

I do not get what u are saying. Wealth ? what are the wealth that US possess outside a debt ?

I... err.. don't get what you're saying. I didn't even mention the wealth of the USA, I'm just saying this isn't a measure of wealth (which you implied it was, through your title).

But, if you want to know, the USA has more wealth than any other country in the world by just about every measure - it's the most resource-rich country in the world, its workers are the most productive (The average American is 40% more productive, each year, than the average European... and the average American produces the same amount as 11 Chinese people, or 43 Indians!), also, 90% of the world's largest corporations and brands are based in the USA. And, somewhere along the line, pretty much every major non-American corporation has a lot of American money invested in it.

Remember, the only reason the USA was able to accumulate such a debt, is because the lenders are confident that the USA are capable of paying the debt back.

That was true for quite some time because they also believed a few years ago that USA would take measures to stop the growth of the debt but that didn't happen. That is why some countries who owe some of the USA debt have transferred some of the dollars to Euro's/and other currencies creating the weak dollar that we know now compared to Yen and Euro..

And also this


The announcement by credit rating agency Standard and Poor’s that it had downgraded its outlook on US debt to “negative” has sent a shudder through global financial markets. The decision means there is now a one in three chance that US debt itself will be downgraded over the next two years—an event without precedent.
More than the state of the US economy and government finances, however, is being called into question by the S&P decision. With US debt considered the safest in the world, any downgrading means that the role of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency will be severely undermined, if not ended altogether.


Yes, I'm well aware of the S&P outlook downgrading, which is why I said that the USA will be getting its debt habit dead within a few years. As for the end of the dollar world-currency... doubt it, very much so. Who's going to replace it? The Euro's dying, Yen is a complete mess, and China's currency is inflating through the roof (faster, even, than the USA).

However, this is discussing future debt. Libellule seems to be of the impression that the USA won't be able to deal with its current debt, I do not believe this to be the case. Future debt is a completely different beast, and the USA won't be able to fund deficit spending as easily, which is why the USA will start more severe cuts.

I also doubt about it, I read about it some time ago sadly can't give you a answer to your question the stuff I read was about creating an 'new currency' or replace it with gold;..

The debt habit will be still their though

In presenting his long-term plan for closing the federal budget shortfall, Obama set a target of reducing the annual U.S. deficit to 2.5 percent of gross domestic product by 2015, compared with 10.9 percent of GDP projected for this year. He reiterated his support for overhauling the tax code to lower rates while closing loopholes and ending some breaks to increase revenue.

^And that in my opinion is the best case scenario but I wonder how USA is going to do that especially thx to the measures that other countries took..

An example is Germany, they expect a massive growth of the economy, the unemployment is decreasing fast and is in fact it is lower than it ever was in the last 20 years? All of this thx to strict measures..  Unemployed for more than 3 months? Sorry now the state will only give you 300 Euro to survive, dropping the loans of workers (working full time for  only 800-1000 Euro)..   I don't see USA taking this kind of strict measures while taking notice Germany was not hit that hard like USA was with the financial crisis. It makes me wonder if Obama's plan took notice of the measures other countries took.......Because the Purchasing power of Germany took a hit and the measures will increase the import from Germany but the export to Germany will decrease.....And then we are not talking yet about the investors who think Germany is now a place to go...And some will probably invest in Germany while they wanted to invest in USA first;..





 

mjk45 on 25 May 2011
SamuelRSmith said:
mjk45 said:

Zimbabwe was ranked the world poorest country in 2010 by the International Monetry Fund  due to it's extreme hyper inflation rate of 87.9 sextillion with inflation doubling  every 1.1 days .

Its GDP is $0.1

the next poorest country is The democtratic Republic Of the Congo (not to be confused with the Republic of Congo)

GDP $334

Note: it is GDP Gross Domestic Product that is used to denote how rich or poor a country is rated.


Of course, by this point, GDP becomes a totally irrelavent means of measuring Zimbabwe's economy, as they would have found a substitute, such as bartering, to their currency. The standards of living will be low in Zimbabwe, no doubt, but not as low as this measure suggests.

Yes but this is about poorest countries and  GDP is the measuring stick used  so in relation to other countries it is as bad as it looks and that is why people there barter because the economy as collapsed .



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SamuelRSmith on 25 May 2011
mjk45 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
mjk45 said:

Zimbabwe was ranked the world poorest country in 2010 by the International Monetry Fund  due to it's extreme hyper inflation rate of 87.9 sextillion with inflation doubling  every 1.1 days .

Its GDP is $0.1

the next poorest country is The democtratic Republic Of the Congo (not to be confused with the Republic of Congo)

GDP $334

Note: it is GDP Gross Domestic Product that is used to denote how rich or poor a country is rated.


Of course, by this point, GDP becomes a totally irrelavent means of measuring Zimbabwe's economy, as they would have found a substitute, such as bartering, to their currency. The standards of living will be low in Zimbabwe, no doubt, but not as low as this measure suggests.

Yes but this is about poorest countries and  GDP is the measuring stick used  so in relation to other countries it is as bad as it looks and that is why people there barter because the economy as collapsed .

Yes, I know that Zimbabwe probably is one of the poorest in the world, if not THE (I dunno how it's going between Somalia, Afghanistan and Haiti)... just pointing out one of the many, many flaws of the GDP measure.



mjk45 on 25 May 2011
libellule said:


WHAT IS THE POOREST COUNTRY OF THE WORLD ?????????????

Here is the world chartz of the account balance from the CIA itself :

some big surprises toward the end of the chartz ...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

Rank
countryCurrent account balance Date of Information
1 China
$ 272,500,000,000
2010 est.
2 Japan
$ 166,500,000,000
2010 est.
3 Germany
$ 162,300,000,000
2010 est.
4 Russia
$ 68,850,000,000
2010 est.
5 Norway
$ 60,230,000,000
2010 est.
6 Saudi Arabia
$ 52,030,000,000
2010 est.
7 Switzerland
$ 49,350,000,000
2010 est.
8 Netherlands
$ 46,690,000,000
2010 est.
9 Singapore
$ 44,080,000,000
2010 est.
10 Taiwan
$ 39,000,000,000
2010 est.
11 Kuwait
$ 38,200,000,000
2010 est.
12 Korea, South
$ 36,350,000,000
2010 est.
13 Malaysia
$ 34,140,000,000
2010 est.
14 Nigeria
$ 27,770,000,000
2010 est.
15 Venezuela
$ 22,070,000,000
2010 est.
16 Sweden
$ 21,680,000,000
2010 est.
17 Qatar
$ 20,110,000,000
2010 est.
18 Hong Kong
$ 18,070,000,000
2010 est.
19 Azerbaijan
$ 15,960,000,000
2010 est.
20 Libya
$ 15,530,000,000
2010 est.
21 Denmark
$ 14,350,000,000
2010 est.
22 Thailand
$ 12,290,000,000
2010 est.
23 Austria
$ 9,900,000,000
2010 est.
24 Iran
$ 9,760,000,000
2010 est.
25 Philippines
$ 9,510,000,000
2010 est.
26 Indonesia
$ 8,532,000,000
2010 est.
27 Brunei
$ 7,024,000,000
2008 est.
28 Kazakhstan
$ 6,993,000,000
2010 est.
29 Argentina
$ 6,976,000,000
2010 est.
30 Israel
$ 6,269,000,000
2010 est.
31 Macau
$ 6,230,000,000
 
32 Uzbekistan
$ 5,588,000,000
2010 est.
33 Finland
$ 4,696,000,000
2010 est.
34 Algeria
$ 3,959,000,000
2010 est.
35 Bangladesh
$ 3,734,000,000
2010 est.
36 United Arab Emirates
$ 3,409,000,000
2010 est.
37 Luxembourg
$ 3,396,000,000
2010 est.
38 Trinidad and Tobago
$ 3,363,000,000
2010 est.
39 Turkmenistan
$ 3,081,000,000
2010 est.
40 Oman
$ 2,724,000,000
2010 est.
41 Iraq
$ 2,715,000,000
2010 est.
42 Angola
$ 2,089,000,000
2010 est.
43 Latvia
$ 1,620,000,000
2010 est.
44 Lithuania
$ 1,231,000,000
2010 est.
45 Timor-Leste
$ 1,161,000,000
2007 est.
46 Chile
$ 1,033,000,000
2010 est.
47 Bolivia
$ 690,200,000
2010 est.
48 Burma
$ 652,000,000
2010 est.
49 Syria
$ 649,000,000
2010 est.
50 Ukraine
$ 603,000,000
2010 est.
51 Gabon
$ 591,000,000
2010 est.
52 Bahrain
$ 589,000,000
2010 est.
53 Cote d'Ivoire
$ 534,000,000
2010 est.
54 Egypt
$ 270,000,000
2010 est.
55 Estonia
$ 265,000,000
2010 est.
56 Bhutan
$ 164,000,000
2008 est.
57 British Virgin Islands
$ 134,300,000
1999
58 Cook Islands
$ 26,670,000
2005
59 Suriname
$ 24,000,000
2007 est.
60 Palau
$ 15,090,000
FY03/04
61 Comoros
$ 8,000,000
2007 est.
62 Guinea-Bissau
$ -6,000,000
2007 est.
63 Tuvalu
$ -11,680,000
2003
64 Bulgaria
$ -12,800,000
2010 est.
65 Kiribati
$ -21,000,000
2007 est.
66 Tonga
$ -23,000,000
2007 est.
67 Samoa
$ -24,000,000
2007 est.
68 Micronesia, Federated States of
$ -34,300,000
FY05 est.
69 Iceland
$ -42,000,000
2010 est.
70 Anguilla
$ -42,870,000
2003 est.
71 Vanuatu
$ -60,000,000
2007 est.
72 Sierra Leone
$ -63,000,000
2007 est.
73 Dominica
$ -72,000,000
2007 est.
74 Sao Tome and Principe
$ -73,000,000
2010 est.
75 Central African Republic
$ -77,000,000
2007 est.
76 Cuba
$ -87,000,000
2010 est.
77 Gambia, The
$ -90,000,000
2010 est.
78 Zambia
$ -99,000,000
2010 est.
79 Papua New Guinea
$ -99,000,000
2010 est.
80 Lesotho
$ -125,000,000
2010 est.
81 Burundi
$ -136,000,000
2010 est.
82 Grenada
$ -138,000,000
2007 est.
83 Solomon Islands
$ -143,000,000
2007 est.
84 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
$ -149,000,000
2007 est.
85 Belize
$ -151,000,000
2010 est.
86 Saint Kitts and Nevis
$ -163,000,000
2007 est.
87 Mauritania
$ -184,000,000
2007 est.
88 Namibia
$ -187,000,000
2010 est.
89 Laos
$ -195,000,000
2010 est.
90 Saint Lucia
$ -199,000,000
2007 est.
91 Kyrgyzstan
$ -210,000,000
2010 est.
92 Antigua and Barbuda
$ -211,000,000
2007 est.
93 Eritrea
$ -212,000,000
2010 est.
94 Liberia
$ -224,000,000
2007
95 Barbados
$ -254,000,000
2007 est.
96 Bahamas, The
$ -283,200,000
2009 est.
97 Cape Verde
$ -286,000,000
2010 est.
98 Guyana
$ -311,000,000
2010 est.
99 Malawi
$ -315,000,000
2010 est.
100 Niger
$ -321,000,000
2007 est.
101 Macedonia
$ -328,000,000
2010 est.
102 Tajikistan
$ -330,000,000
2010 est.
103 Togo
$ -339,000,000
2010 est.
104 Seychelles
$ -351,000,000
2010 est.
105 Djibouti
$ -352,000,000
2009 est.
106 Malta
$ -362,800,000
2010
107 Swaziland
$ -374,000,000
2010 est.
108 Uruguay
$ -377,000,000
2010 est.
109 Mongolia
$ -378,800,000
2010 est.
110 Paraguay
$ -391,000,000
2010 est.
111 Guinea
$ -434,000,000
2010 est.
112 Mali
$ -446,000,000
2007 est.
113 Nepal
$ -449,000,000
2010
114 Maldives
$ -463,000,000
2010 est.
115 Burkina Faso
$ -486,000,000
2010 est.
116 Rwanda
$ -489,000,000
2010 est.
117 Fiji
$ -507,000,000
2007 est.
118 Botswana
$ -552,000,000
2010 est.
119 Moldova
$ -565,000,000
2010 est.
120 Congo, Republic of the
$ -569,000,000
2010 est.
121 Benin
$ -582,000,000
2010 est.
122 Slovenia
$ -598,000,000
2010 est.
123 Madagascar
$ -600,000,000
2010 est.
124 Ecuador
$ -692,000,000
2010 est.
125 Haiti
$ -781,000,000
2010 est.
126 Uganda
$ -784,000,000
2010 est.
127 Nicaragua
$ -819,000,000
2010 est.
128 Cameroon
$ -826,000,000
2010 est.
129 El Salvador
$ -907,000,000
2010 est.
130 Cambodia
$ -918,000,000
2010 est.
131 Mauritius
$ -949,000,000
2010 est.
132 Jordan
$ -975,000,000
2010 est.
133 Mozambique
$ -1,028,000,000
2010 est.
134 Serbia
$ -1,046,000,000
2010 est.
135 Senegal
$ -1,046,000,000
2010 est.
136 Honduras
$ -1,048,000,000
2010 est.
137 Montenegro
$ -1,102,000,000
2007 est.
138 Belgium
$ -1,129,000,000
2010 est.
139 Armenia
$ -1,138,000,000
2010 est.
140 Bosnia and Herzegovina
$ -1,175,000,000
2010 est.
141 Albania
$ -1,245,000,000
2010 est.
142 Guatemala
$ -1,345,000,000
2010 est.
143 Costa Rica
$ -1,349,000,000
2010 est.
144 Jamaica
$ -1,382,000,000
2010 est.
145 Tunisia
$ -1,389,000,000
2010 est.
146 Georgia
$ -1,404,000,000
2010 est.
147 Kenya
$ -1,414,000,000
2010 est.
148 Congo, Democratic Republic of the
$ -1,470,000,000
2010 est.
149 Equatorial Guinea
$ -1,477,000,000
2010 est.
150 Zimbabwe
$ -1,503,000,000
2010 est.
151 Tanzania
$ -1,523,000,000
2010 est.
152 Sri Lanka
$ -1,784,000,000
2010 est.
153 Ghana
$ -1,871,000,000
2010 est.
154 Slovakia
$ -1,930,000,000
2010 est.
155 Hungary
$ -2,128,000,000
2010 est.
156 Yemen
$ -2,181,000,000
2010 est.
157 Ethiopia
$ -2,232,000,000
2010 est.
158 Croatia
$ -2,312,000,000
2010 est.
159 Peru
$ -2,315,000,000
2010 est.
160 Afghanistan
$ -2,475,000,000
2009 est.
161 Cyprus
$ -2,500,000,000
2010 est.
162 Panama
$ -2,523,000,000
2010 est.
163 Sudan
$ -2,595,000,000
2010 est.
164 Chad
$ -2,600,000,000
2010 est.
165 Pakistan
$ -2,641,000,000
2010 est.
166 Kosovo
$ -2,716,000,000
2010 est.
167 Ireland
$ -3,191,000,000
2010 est.
168 Dominican Republic
$ -3,862,000,000
2010 est.
169 New Zealand
$ -4,504,000,000
2010 est.
170 Belarus
$ -5,062,000,000
2010 est.
171 Colombia
$ -5,946,000,000
2010 est.
172 Czech Republic
$ -5,956,000,000
2010 est.
173 Lebanon
$ -6,972,000,000
2010 est.
174 Mexico
$ -7,000,000,000
2010 est.
175 Morocco
$ -7,922,000,000
2010 est.
176 Romania
$ -7,934,000,000
2010 est.
177 Vietnam
$ -12,220,000,000
2010 est.
178 Poland
$ -12,330,000,000
2010 est.
179 South Africa
$ -16,510,000,000
2010 est.
180 Greece
$ -17,100,000,000
2010 est.
181 Portugal
$ -19,030,000,000
2010 est.
182 India
$ -26,910,000,000
2010 est.
183 Australia
$ -35,230,000,000
2010 est.
184 Turkey
$ -38,820,000,000
2010 est.
185 Canada
$ -40,210,000,000
2010 est.
186 United Kingdom
$ -40,340,000,000
2010 est.
187 Brazil
$ -52,730,000,000
2010 est.
188 France
$ -53,290,000,000
2010 est.
189 Italy
$ -61,980,000,000
2010 est.
190 Spain
$ -66,740,000,000
2010 est.
 
191 United States $ -561,000,000,000 2010 est.

oups !!!!!!

That isn't a list of the worlds poorest countries  just a Current Accounts deficits list , GDP is used to rate poor and rich countries.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

SamuelRSmith on 25 May 2011
Lostplanet22 said:


(I deleted the content, as it was getting too long)

Personally, I think we should wait until next year's election before we start making any assumptions about the long term debt of the USA, if the markets don't get there first, as I believe that candidates such a Johnson, even if they don't get in, will be setting the bar high on promised cuts.



mjk45 on 25 May 2011
SamuelRSmith said:
mjk45 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
mjk45 said:

Zimbabwe was ranked the world poorest country in 2010 by the International Monetry Fund  due to it's extreme hyper inflation rate of 87.9 sextillion with inflation doubling  every 1.1 days .

Its GDP is $0.1

the next poorest country is The democtratic Republic Of the Congo (not to be confused with the Republic of Congo)

GDP $334

Note: it is GDP Gross Domestic Product that is used to denote how rich or poor a country is rated.


Of course, by this point, GDP becomes a totally irrelavent means of measuring Zimbabwe's economy, as they would have found a substitute, such as bartering, to their currency. The standards of living will be low in Zimbabwe, no doubt, but not as low as this measure suggests.

Yes but this is about poorest countries and  GDP is the measuring stick used  so in relation to other countries it is as bad as it looks and that is why people there barter because the economy as collapsed .

Yes, I know that Zimbabwe probably is one of the poorest in the world, if not THE (I dunno how it's going between Somalia, Afghanistan and Haiti)... just pointing out one of the many, many flaws of the GDP measure.

yes i agree it is flawed but it is the measure used and it gives you a good overview of wealth in a generalised manner, as with most complex questions, generalised answers painted with a broad brush stroke is sometimes all we can give.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

libellule on 26 May 2011
SamuelRSmith said:
libellule said:
SamuelRSmith said:
libellule said:
SamuelRSmith said:
libellule said:
SamuelRSmith said:

This is exports-imports. This doesn't rank wealth, at all. In fact, as current accounts will always, by definition, end up balancing, this implies that in the future, the USA will have one of the largest trade surplusses in the world, and China, the largest trade deficit (either that, or minimal surplus/deficit for very, very, very long periods of time).

This is, in no way, a measure of how rich or poor a country is.

I do not get what u are saying. Wealth ? what are the wealth that US possess outside a debt ?

I... err.. don't get what you're saying. I didn't even mention the wealth of the USA, I'm just saying this isn't a measure of wealth (which you implied it was, through your title).

But, if you want to know, the USA has more wealth than any other country in the world by just about every measure - it's the most resource-rich country in the world, its workers are the most productive (The average American is 40% more productive, each year, than the average European... and the average American produces the same amount as 11 Chinese people, or 43 Indians!), also, 90% of the world's largest corporations and brands are based in the USA. And, somewhere along the line, pretty much every major non-American corporation has a lot of American money invested in it.

Remember, the only reason the USA was able to accumulate such a debt, is because the lenders are confident that the USA are capable of paying the debt back.

wait, but all this is possible because of the infinite  debt.

and lenders are not confident, lenders work fo the US. Nobody would be confident to continue to give that much money to people that will never be able to give back the money lent ... At the opposite, the grec debt is, in % of PIB, a lot smaller that the US one ... but because rating agency work agaisnt Grece and because there are a lot of speculations, they explain everybody to NOT give money to Grece because it is supposed "risky" ...

Huh? Resource-rich land is not a product of debt, it's a product of the land. High productive workers isn't a product of debt, it's a product of education and training. Being home to the largest corporations and brands isn't a product of debt, it's a product of decades of business-friendly laws (low taxes, low regulation).

Greece IS a risky place to invest, compared to the USA. Greece's current economic situation is FAR worse than the USA's, Greece have a very high chance of defaulting on their debts... the USA, at this point in time, does not (not that the debt binge can go on forever, but American politicians HAVE started to see the light now... rather than Greece, where they didn't see it until the debt collectors were knocking on their door) .

Nobody is forced to lend money to anybody, it's all done optionally. People have stopped lending to Greece (I say "lending", I /mean/ buying Greek bonds) because they no longer trust that they'll get all the money back. Investors still think that they have a very, very good chance of getting their money back from the USA.

As a side-comment, I do believe that, as the USA starts repaying its debts, we will see a rebirth in the US economy, as the State is going to have to draw back to a level that it used to be, back when the USA was in its golden days.

from what I get I think your wake up is gonna be ASTOUNDINGLY HARD man ...

I do not see how you can judge Grec economy "not sure" vs US economy "sure" while the biggest debt ever is the US debt indeed ad the % over the PIB is also the biggest.

Also, I do not see which mesure is gonna allow US to repay their debt particularly since, from now, people are starting to not trust them anymore realizing they will never get pay back, making the situation even worst. I doubt US will recover from this. It is not PuppetObama that is gona change anything.

And if China and others are still buying the US debt it is becuase they still need the US customers that buy so much of their "low end" products. It is indeed a big circle, but it is by no mean virtuous IMO ...


My wake up? I actually think I know a fair bit more than you. You posted a BoPCA table as some kind of measure of wealth.

Unless the US economy majorly sours, every penny that the USA has borrowed to this day, they will be able to pay back. As for borrowing money in the future? Yeah, it's going to be more expensive for them, which is why they will cut back... I mean, have you even been watching the news, in the past few months? The literature in D.C. has very much changed from "spending" to "cutting".

As for your last statement: why do you think China buys dollars? They can't spend 'em on anything in China, can they? The reason why China buys dollars is so that they can buy stuff from the USA, in the future. That's how international trade works.


Well, u believe in what you think, fine. And despite my lack of knowledge, I mostly agree with you.

But when you talk about "cutting" vs "spending", I think you are wrong or that "cuttings" are clearly too small, since they are basically struggling to reduce their debt : I have read somewhere (cant find it in english) that they will have to negociate the maximum debt value because the maximum threshold is gonna be reached again ...



Time to Work !