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Forums - General Discussion - VGC Mafia Round 29 -Grand Theft Auto 4 edition!

A Bad Clown said:

To reinterate

 

-I TOLD THE PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT TOWN THAT THEY ARE NOT TOWN IN THEIR PMs. IF YOU DID NOT RECIEVE AN ALIGNMENT IN YOUR PM OR IF I TOLD YOU YOU WERE PROTOWN, YOU ARE PRO-TOWN.-

I quickly browsed ahead to see reaction... they seem to be mixed.

In my opinion, although this can be read as a confirmation of some players,  you are only correcting an erroneous statement that you made earlier. I probably would have done the same thing... but it is highly understandable that scum would be pissed at this.

I'm sending you a PM, don't comment on it in the game thread.



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theprof00 said:
TruckOSaurus said:
Linkzmax said:

TOS, you're either being sarcastic or your reading comprehension sucks. I'm town, but I still don't want an outside advantage given.

I just thought your choice of words was strange, specifically the "if I was going to flip scum" part. I found it odd that you would theorize on your own alignment.

I've also been noting that. I remember last time his alignment was called into question and in danger of lynch he repeatedly urged that he wasn't, saying, this is a big mistake. I WILL flip town, this will be a devastating loss, etc etc. I've only see him do it here a couple times now, and even stranger I have noticed him theorizing his alignment also in several posts. I want to lynch him but I can't help feel that he's a bomb now, thanks to wonk.

You mean last game, when I knew my death would certainly mean the death of two townies? Here I do not know for certain that my death will mean the death of a second townie.(Yes, I've seen TOS's post)



Hephaestos said:
A Bad Clown said:

To reinterate

 

-I TOLD THE PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT TOWN THAT THEY ARE NOT TOWN IN THEIR PMs. IF YOU DID NOT RECIEVE AN ALIGNMENT IN YOUR PM OR IF I TOLD YOU YOU WERE PROTOWN, YOU ARE PRO-TOWN.-

I quickly browsed ahead to see reaction... they seem to be mixed.

In my opinion, although this can be read as a confirmation of some players,  you are only correcting an erroneous statement that you made earlier. I probably would have done the same thing... but it is highly understandable that scum would be pissed at this.

I'm sending you a PM, don't comment on it in the game thread.

It was not an erroneous statement earlier. As I pointed out before this clarification, "If I did not denote your side, you are town. All non-towns I labebled in their pms." does not translate to "All town did not have their side denoted."

If both you and Vette are town you can expect at least one "I told you so" from me about the metagaming on PMs. I still doubt that you're both town though.



theprof00 said:

vette and trucks and heph and stefl and wonk, can I please get your opinions on my suspects via the potals? You're all online and I'd really like to get this day over with.

DO we lynch linkz, or is there a better option? If there is a better option, would you consider notstan or ST?


I think linkz needs to go.



Wonktonodi said:
theprof00 said:

vette and trucks and heph and stefl and wonk, can I please get your opinions on my suspects via the potals? You're all online and I'd really like to get this day over with.

DO we lynch linkz, or is there a better option? If there is a better option, would you consider notstan or ST?


I think linkz needs to go.

To expand on this a bit. I am thinking it's either him or no lynch today. To get the lynch onto someone else at this point wouldn't give as much info because I could another lynch happening as a fast bandwagon from day fatigue that won't give as much info.

The game won't be the same without him since he's always one of the more frequent posters, but I don't think it would be a good idea to leave him for some future lynch. Where other things might occur and the town may have to postpone it again.

I really do think there is a possibility of him being a bomb (we'll need to question ToS though) So I'd propose someone volunteer to be the hammer vote or last vote if the day needs to be ended by a timer.

Some people I'd propose for that are ToS, for being sure he's not. Vett since he's suspicious. Notstan also suspicious and Stelf I find him suspicious and he seems keen on the idea of townies sacrificing themselves.



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TruckOSaurus said:
theprof00 said:

I've also been noting that. I remember last time his alignment was called into question and in danger of lynch he repeatedly urged that he wasn't, saying, this is a big mistake. I WILL flip town, this will be a devastating loss, etc etc. I've only see him do it here a couple times now, and even stranger I have noticed him theorizing his alignment also in several posts. I want to lynch him but I can't help feel that he's a bomb now, thanks to wonk.

He's not a bomb.

How do you know? Care to show your confidence by being the hammer vote?



Linkzmax said:
Hephaestos said:
Linkzmax said:

I am. People want to lynch me based on a presumption of how the mod would handle my situation when the roleclaiming rules were written in thread. Meanwhile the mod said this:(in the sign-up thread) "If I did not denote your side, you are town. All non-towns I labebled in their pms." which I would take to indicate town roles didn't explicitly indicate such, and given that I can't see a win condition listed either.

It does border on thin ice as far as metagaming and so I don't really want to venture down that lane. But if I decide it's time for a nameclaim by the time I'm caught up, I'm certainly going to be looking for such. It's pretty clear to me at the moment that Vette, Heph, and/or prof slipped up. I can't imagine it was an elaborate trap set to see if I'd bite one way or the other and actually give my alignment away.


How is this a slip up (on my part) or metagaming?

You point out yourself that the signupthread indicates that aspect of the PM.

Vette makes a post indicating that he has the side written in his PM. (slip)

2 public information from the game is not metagaming (the mod indicating rules/settup is part of the game), it's inattention on vette's part.

 

moreover Proff's post isn't a slip, it seems to purposefully attract attention and create confusion.

I hadn't read my PM at that point. For all I knew, pro-town roles did say something along the lines of 'you win when town wins'(as dumb as that would be since it explains nothing as far as win condition) and thus you were gambiting as scum given the post from the sign-up thread.

The post from the sign-up thread does not indicate that ALL town roles weren't specifically told they're town in the PMs. It only says non-town were told they are non-town, but some pro-town could have also been informed. This is why it is metagaming. Picking apart PM talk is boderline modkillable due to the extent because of how it can break the game. Was nothing learned from the Youma incident?

So you FoS'd his explanation, because he paraphrases that his pm has a win condition in it that implies he wins with town yet it can't be a slip? Yeah, I disagree.

Now there's something very different from the youma game here... I'm not picking appart PM talk, i'm not volunteering information from my PM, I'm reacting to something that was said and that by all the elements I had was wrong. Others talked about their PM and what was on it, I reacted to it. Heck last game if someone said they were homoculis, would you have said "oh it's info from their PM that they volunteered, so we shouldn't use it"?

(and you were there for the youma incident, I refused to name claim till deep in day 2 when it became ridiculous... then once I bent to the presure of 2 powered townies faking to be 'named' vanilla... the game got broken. It's not countering the initial claims that broke the game (that actually saved you from a wrongfull lynch), it was forcing to reveal actual PM information. Here all that has been done is countering the initial claim, put forward into play unrequested.)



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Final-Fan said:

If I think Linkz is probably town, would it be wrong to lynch him on the strength of his own comments that it might be for the best? 


If him saying it didn't convince you that it was best. Care to convince everyone why it isn't? Or what would be better?



Linkzmax said:

1) Anyone that's observant in Mafia should know who I mean, and as I said it's not the end of the world if it goes misunderstood. The player is likely to mess up on their own in my opinion.

2) So then when I flip town and if there was no vig(or he didn't listen) you'll do what should be done today anyway and get him lynched?


it goes without saying but i'm finding #2 to be in need of a rethinking :p



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Okay prof... after reading throw your postals, nothing has quite changed it just increased the rate I distrust ST a little more... I think that everyone under 25 posts should try to post a little more and 10 is just too little so GoW should post a lot more...

I'm considering Zarx, ST and NotStan scum right now if I had to rank all players in order in which to lynch... hummm I rather make a graph... the lowest level is the lowest suspicion:

/7 Zarx
/6 Silver-Tiger, Notstan
/5 -
/4 GodofWar, Prof, Final-Fan, Heph
/3 Wildvine, Vetteman, TruckoSaurus
/2 Linkzmax
/1 Stefl1504, Stumpi

though Zark could also be on the sixth level... and notstan on the fifth... so they are more like halfleveld

so if I have to tell you who I like to lynch most of of your list i would go for either SilverTiger or Notstan