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Forums - General Discussion - VGC Mafia Round 29 -Grand Theft Auto 4 edition!

theprof00 said:
Linkzmax said:

Why ask questions if you don't want the answers? Why make accusations that you should know I'll shoot down because they don't make sense?


i asked no question regarding that.

I made no accusation knowing you'd shoot them down. If I were a cop and said that didn't think someone was suspicious, I would expect you to acknowledge the possibility that I could be cop. Conversely, I'd expect that if I were regular townie, you'd do the same. A little questioning of the idea here and there is fine, but determined argument comes off as some kind of leadership, and that makes me nervous.

Additionally, if I were mafia claiming that I didn't think someone was mafia, I'd still expect you to think that I may be a cop.

In the same vain, I'd expect that when I say things that aren't harmful to town, you'd give me a little leeway. If it became a real problem, like the idea became harmful in a way that it could end up intefering which lynch candidates, then I would expect your questioning, and accept it, and respond in kind.

Regarding what? The only thing I did without you questioning it is bring up your habit of switching back and forth about being vanilla/PR and asking for protection.

You asked "What is the harm is assuming there is [a cop]? Why should the unconfirmed existence of an LD bar one?" And you said my explanation ruled out a fakeclaim and made it known to scum that one wouldn't exist. 

You also said "Also, I think only you've requested [a cop claim], and not many trust you, so put two and two together." I take that as an accusation.

Perhaps I give everyone too much credit, but when I think there's an extremely slim chance scum would fall for something I think it's important to clear it up for any townies that may be confused.



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theprof00 said:
Linkzmax said:
GodOfWar_3ever said:
Linkzmax said:

Do you think a LD, a rolecop/tracker and a cop (with limitations like every other day investigations) is an impossible combo ?

Assuming things that the mod has decided is foolish, imo. We don't know the full extent of any of these roles. Maybe the LD, tracker have every other day limitations among them too ?

Why should the cop out himself to carry out something based on probabilities ?

Yes. Even with limitations it's far too much investigative power for town. An LD is just as strong as a cop. The two of them balanced as odd/even wouldn't be strange, but once you get to three powers it pushes the balance too far. Tracker isn't as powerful at finding scum as the others due to the various powers, but as we may see by the end of the game, it can confirm roles.

And again, no, it cannot confirm roles. Heph got what he implied as freak evidence, that was to him, so bizarre that it might've been ABC "rebalancing" for a mistake. Heph might disagree with this paraphrasing, but that's how it came off. THe confirmation came from Heph making a serious mistake.

actually I do agree with the paraphrase here (though a bit dramatic :p)



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Linkzmax said:
theprof00 said:
Linkzmax said:

Why ask questions if you don't want the answers? Why make accusations that you should know I'll shoot down because they don't make sense?


i asked no question regarding that.

I made no accusation knowing you'd shoot them down. If I were a cop and said that didn't think someone was suspicious, I would expect you to acknowledge the possibility that I could be cop. Conversely, I'd expect that if I were regular townie, you'd do the same. A little questioning of the idea here and there is fine, but determined argument comes off as some kind of leadership, and that makes me nervous.

Additionally, if I were mafia claiming that I didn't think someone was mafia, I'd still expect you to think that I may be a cop.

In the same vain, I'd expect that when I say things that aren't harmful to town, you'd give me a little leeway. If it became a real problem, like the idea became harmful in a way that it could end up intefering which lynch candidates, then I would expect your questioning, and accept it, and respond in kind.

Regarding what? The only thing I did without you questioning it is bring up your habit of switching back and forth about being vanilla/PR and asking for protection.

You asked "What is the harm is assuming there is [a cop]? Why should the unconfirmed existence of an LD bar one?" And you said my explanation ruled out a fakeclaim and made it known to scum that one wouldn't exist. 

You also said "Also, I think only you've requested [a cop claim], and not many trust you, so put two and two together." I take that as an accusation.

Perhaps I give everyone too much credit, but when I think there's an extremely slim chance scum would fall for something I think it's important to clear it up for any townies that may be confused.

I'll address the rest when I get home, but I was not accusing you. Well, maybe I was, but that line wasn't an accusation. I was just saying that you requested a cop claim, and I don't think people trust you, hence when no cop claimed. I would be for a cop claim myself.

Additionally, you do give scum too much credit. Let them agonize over who to target. Don't help them like that, unless it is vital that town know the truth.



Hephaestos said:
theprof00 said:
Linkzmax said:
GodOfWar_3ever said:
Linkzmax said:

Do you think a LD, a rolecop/tracker and a cop (with limitations like every other day investigations) is an impossible combo ?

Assuming things that the mod has decided is foolish, imo. We don't know the full extent of any of these roles. Maybe the LD, tracker have every other day limitations among them too ?

Why should the cop out himself to carry out something based on probabilities ?

Yes. Even with limitations it's far too much investigative power for town. An LD is just as strong as a cop. The two of them balanced as odd/even wouldn't be strange, but once you get to three powers it pushes the balance too far. Tracker isn't as powerful at finding scum as the others due to the various powers, but as we may see by the end of the game, it can confirm roles.

And again, no, it cannot confirm roles. Heph got what he implied as freak evidence, that was to him, so bizarre that it might've been ABC "rebalancing" for a mistake. Heph might disagree with this paraphrasing, but that's how it came off. THe confirmation came from Heph making a serious mistake.

actually I do agree with the paraphrase here (though a bit dramatic :p)

Going to clear this up before this carries on too far, then get back to commenting on page 17 by 100.

I did not mean it could confirm roles because of the bizarre flavor. I mean had Trucks not died, if Stefl and Heph are both town, Heph could confirm Stefl visited Trucks. That's more along the lines of confirming an action though, and it would take further information/analysis to learn the role. Let's say Heph followed the RB to prof instead. Once prof claims he was RBed, Heph knows who the RB is.



Linkzmax said:
Hephaestos said:
theprof00 said:
Linkzmax said:
GodOfWar_3ever said:
Linkzmax said:

Do you think a LD, a rolecop/tracker and a cop (with limitations like every other day investigations) is an impossible combo ?

Assuming things that the mod has decided is foolish, imo. We don't know the full extent of any of these roles. Maybe the LD, tracker have every other day limitations among them too ?

Why should the cop out himself to carry out something based on probabilities ?

Yes. Even with limitations it's far too much investigative power for town. An LD is just as strong as a cop. The two of them balanced as odd/even wouldn't be strange, but once you get to three powers it pushes the balance too far. Tracker isn't as powerful at finding scum as the others due to the various powers, but as we may see by the end of the game, it can confirm roles.

And again, no, it cannot confirm roles. Heph got what he implied as freak evidence, that was to him, so bizarre that it might've been ABC "rebalancing" for a mistake. Heph might disagree with this paraphrasing, but that's how it came off. THe confirmation came from Heph making a serious mistake.

actually I do agree with the paraphrase here (though a bit dramatic :p)

Going to clear this up before this carries on too far, then get back to commenting on page 17 by 100.

I did not mean it could confirm roles because of the bizarre flavor. I mean had Trucks not died, if Stefl and Heph are both town, Heph could confirm Stefl visited Trucks. That's more along the lines of confirming an action though, and it would take further information/analysis to learn the role. Let's say Heph followed the RB to prof instead. Once prof claims he was RBed, Heph knows who the RB is.

that be true too ^^



OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

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Vetteman94 said:

 

Well I still like Silver-Tiger more, but in such a short period of time left for the day I dont see a possible lynch on him.

Unvote

Vote: Final-Fan

 

Wait. You seriously didn't realize Heph(if town) was Tracker?



Linkzmax said:
Vetteman94 said:

 

Well I still like Silver-Tiger more, but in such a short period of time left for the day I dont see a possible lynch on him.

Unvote

Vote: Final-Fan

 

Wait. You seriously didn't realize Heph(if town) was Tracker?

why do you think i'm turning crazy here....



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theprof00 said: your latest big reply to me 

This was a great post which really brought some attention to flaws in my play this game. I can only blame it on lack of time and rushing a bit to make my points when I do have the time.

I realize it was backwards to rule out most players and then try to see what is suspicious about who is left. My vote has been on FF because I thought both Vette and Heph to be town, and I wanted to push a race for a lynch. It was more to get information about everyone else that pushes/avoids certain lynches.

I don't think I have time to fully explain why I think Heph is town. In short, Heph was on Stefl a lot day one, so it would make sense for him to choose to track him. It would also make sense if he's scum tracker/role cop to figure out what Stefl is given he was more active day one and thus likely a PR; however, the vote and unvote wouldn't make sense to me if that were the case. I already explained why I think Stefl should've been RBed if Heph had prior reasoning of Stefl being LD, but even if that isn't the case then staying mum means Stefl can be RBed/killed or possibly even lynched. It would be an extremely huge risk to draw that much attention and out town PR with no reward.(Heph is and will by no means be cleared until his flip)

 

I'm going out for a bit. I should have many hours tonight to reread the thread(oh goodie) and do some deep thinking.



I think it was your vehement denial that you were the tracker that threw some people off, along with the fact that you said your result came "with flavor", and the fact that you took your vote off, since stefl could've always just been lying.
Although, even without mentioning the "Linkz style" portion of the "town watcher" claim, I got it. Maybe that should've been said earlier.



WOW. A busy afternoon turns into a busy day and a half, sorry. I would roleclaim but I'm not sure it's a good idea with 12 hours left in the day. I expect to be awake again in time to talk before the day ends, so if anyone is going to be online who might be swayed in any direction by a name/role claim by me, you'd best speak up.

I do not believe Heph. Simple as that. It's almost as bad as when megaman said he had a daytime cop investigation, then said he "investigated though our posts". Well, no, nothing is remotely as bad as megaman's "participation" in that one game, but I still don't believe it.



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