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Forums - General Discussion - VGC Mafia Round 29 -Grand Theft Auto 4 edition!

@ GoW:  You have every right to be pissed at me but please don't vote me just because you're pissed.  If it made you conclude I'm mafia, well, I argue that I follow games just as closely when I am scum.  This was a bizarre lapse that I deeply regret and will be careful to avoid repetition of. 

@ Linkz:  Although it is strange, mafia lovers have been done before, on VGC.  Game 8, the one in my sig where I had the best death ever, featured werewolves and mafia, and there were brothers on each faction which died like you say you will if the other died.  (Different name, same mechanic.)  Of course, I killed them both on the same night with my bomb when they each tried to kill me, but the roles were there! 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Linkzmax said:

Once again you're not putting yourself in the position of this supposed faction without the RB. They're the ones that have no reason to question your claim.

everything else I either more or less agree with (or disagree but don't see a point arguing) but this I wanted to mention.

I think that if there are two factions, and one of them does not have a role blocker, then they would have used my aggressiveness against me, thinking that in the end, I will be lynched for driving a mislynch against what they might expect to be a town roleblocker or vanilla. Don't you think so?



Linkzmax said:

Do you think a LD, a rolecop/tracker and a cop (with limitations like every other day investigations) is an impossible combo ?

Assuming things that the mod has decided is foolish, imo. We don't know the full extent of any of these roles. Maybe the LD, tracker have every other day limitations among them too ?

Why should the cop out himself to carry out something based on probabilities ?

Hephaestos said:

Say, how many games have you played here? how many had SKs or Vig? so yeah it's very unatural for people to even dare mention them...

A few...definitely not all. SF game, the game I made and the DBZ one. 

Mentioning SK/Vig isn't out of the ordinary...You always twist things I try to say, don't you ? But being almost sure that one exists...and even prioritizing on the vig, makes you look bad. I'd pin you for wildvine's scumbuddy for that.

You say vig (hypothesis) once then onwards you don't even think of the possibility of there not being one. 

Wonktonodi said:

I'm too tired to be making much of a case right now and don't have the time to put much together, but here is something. Profs weird connections with GOW had me paying more attention to GOW.

Things that have bothered me

1 the connection with prof with how easily he though prof was town

2 his thinking there still is a cop out there and not wanting the cop to claim

3. his focusing so much on wildvines lurking but iirc not anylising wv's post like he did for zarx

4. his asking heph to explain something that was in the first posts of the day, especially (iirc) after he was one to understand hephs role.

and now time to crash

1. Prof, when scum  does retarded things..Things like pretending to be drunk to vote for someone. Based on his actions on day 2, he looks town to me. Its just instinct.

2. I see no reason why the cop should claim, because he would lose control on who he wants to investigate. The cop coming forward when 2 investigative roles (if both claims are true) would out all the investigative roles to the mafia. As I've said, we don't know any limitations of the powers in question...So 3 investigative roles, each with a different function, with god knows what as limitations is possible. Most of this BS for the cop to come out is because some people are pompous enough to believe that they're always right, because there can't be a LD,a cop and a tracker. No sir.

3. I've explained this before. When I was going to do one for Wildvine, the possibility of him being modkilled arose. I did one for Vetteman too..but that got interrupted by the time limit and had to wait till day 2.

4. The turn of events that occured wasn't the turn of events that I remembered. I thought stefl said something like "shit, why did ToS  have to die..I knew he was pro-town" before heph implied that Stefl had visited ToS. Obviously that wasn't the case. Me figuring out heph's role was due to his swift vote/unvote on Stefl.

Crazy idea - Final-Fan/Heph double lynch with 4 votes each ? I'm convinced that one or more of the three (including vetteman) is scum.  What does everyone think ?



theprof00 said:
Linkzmax said:

Once again you're not putting yourself in the position of this supposed faction without the RB. They're the ones that have no reason to question your claim.

everything else I either more or less agree with (or disagree but don't see a point arguing) but this I wanted to mention.

I think that if there are two factions, and one of them does not have a role blocker, then they would have used my aggressiveness against me, thinking that in the end, I will be lynched for driving a mislynch against what they might expect to be a town roleblocker or vanilla. Don't you think so?

I think I've discovered a flaw in the two factions thing. If there are two mafia factions, why didn't two people die last night ? It could mean you were the mafia hitman for the 2nd faction since you were roleblocked.

But the more I think of it, the more I find that there wouldn't be 2 mafia factions in a 13 player game.

But a 3 man mafia, with wildvine is possible. The other 2 probably believe in the vig like Heph does.

Also to answer linkz when you said that I didn't come to a conclusion about wildvine... I did. I read the thing on mafia scum...I thought the existence of a vig/sk was possible...but I also thought of him being able to hide from investigative roles. I just didn't have time to comment on that, because the game was moving too fast for me ( I blame my timezone). Then I guess I kinda forgot about it for a while..



Final-Fan said:

2.  OK, upon reviewing the thread, I don't really know what to say about how hard I dropped the ball on the GoW post.  I thought I'd read the whole post, and just skimmed the part where GoW made his argument or something, but apparently I just fucking skipped the last third of the post somehow.  My only excuse is that I was doing two or three other things at the same time, but there's really no good reason for it.  But that's what happened.  You can vote me if it's unforgivable, or if you really think my inattention points to me being scum, which it doesn't. 

3.  It occurs to me that I could do a better job than I have done of articulating my suspicions of Heph.  For instance, a while ago prof said something like "Heph said he was given the flavor to make up for ABC's clearing Vette".  I don't know why I didn't see fit to respond to this before.  What the hell kind of sense does that make?  ABC gives the town information, and makes up for it by giving the town even MORE information?  It would make more sense if information was given to the mafia.  Which is what I believe Heph is.  

2. As I've said before, making excuses outside of the game (like zarx), and not paying full attention (like silver-tiger) is scum tell to me.

3. I would think so too, but ABC has been interfering with the game often...with that claim about role PMs and if linkz is to be believed, his 2nd PM.



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It's not just that it's interference, it's interference that makes no sense



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:

3.  It occurs to me that I could do a better job than I have done of articulating my suspicions of Heph.  For instance, a while ago prof said something like "Heph said he was given the flavor to make up for ABC's clearing Vette".  I don't know why I didn't see fit to respond to this before.  What the hell kind of sense does that make?  ABC gives the town information, and makes up for it by giving the town even MORE information?  It would make more sense if information was given to the mafia.  Which is what I believe Heph is. 


yeah... comment on prof's paraphrase of me and not my actual words.... (and then you wonder why i'm pissed at prof's fake quote of me...a "joke").

"Heph said theorized that he was given the flavor to make up for ABC's clearing Vette when Vette was actually mafia and the lynch was going in the right direction, therefore avoiding the misslynch of stefl to compensate the missed lynch of vette"

that's the full meaning of my post (that I didn't bother digging out). In any case, this was before Vette reacted today and gave what I consider a good read of himself, so i'd consider my theory false.



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GodOfWar_3ever said:
Linkzmax said:

Do you think a LD, a rolecop/tracker and a cop (with limitations like every other day investigations) is an impossible combo ?

Assuming things that the mod has decided is foolish, imo. We don't know the full extent of any of these roles. Maybe the LD, tracker have every other day limitations among them too ?

Why should the cop out himself to carry out something based on probabilities ?

Hephaestos said:

Say, how many games have you played here? how many had SKs or Vig? so yeah it's very unatural for people to even dare mention them...

A few...definitely not all. SF game, the game I made and the DBZ one. 

Mentioning SK/Vig isn't out of the ordinary...You always twist things I try to say, don't you ? But being almost sure that one exists...and even prioritizing on the vig, makes you look bad. I'd pin you for wildvine's scumbuddy for that.

You say vig (hypothesis) once then onwards you don't even think of the possibility of there not being one. 

Wonktonodi said:

I'm too tired to be making much of a case right now and don't have the time to put much together, but here is something. Profs weird connections with GOW had me paying more attention to GOW.

Things that have bothered me

1 the connection with prof with how easily he though prof was town

2 his thinking there still is a cop out there and not wanting the cop to claim

3. his focusing so much on wildvines lurking but iirc not anylising wv's post like he did for zarx

4. his asking heph to explain something that was in the first posts of the day, especially (iirc) after he was one to understand hephs role.

and now time to crash

1. Prof, when scum  does retarded things..Things like pretending to be drunk to vote for someone. Based on his actions on day 2, he looks town to me. Its just instinct.

2. I see no reason why the cop should claim, because he would lose control on who he wants to investigate. The cop coming forward when 2 investigative roles (if both claims are true) would out all the investigative roles to the mafia. As I've said, we don't know any limitations of the powers in question...So 3 investigative roles, each with a different function, with god knows what as limitations is possible. Most of this BS for the cop to come out is because some people are pompous enough to believe that they're always right, because there can't be a LD,a cop and a tracker. No sir.

3. I've explained this before. When I was going to do one for Wildvine, the possibility of him being modkilled arose. I did one for Vetteman too..but that got interrupted by the time limit and had to wait till day 2.

4. The turn of events that occured wasn't the turn of events that I remembered. I thought stefl said something like "shit, why did ToS  have to die..I knew he was pro-town" before heph implied that Stefl had visited ToS. Obviously that wasn't the case. Me figuring out heph's role was due to his swift vote/unvote on Stefl.

Crazy idea - Final-Fan/Heph double lynch with 4 votes each ? I'm convinced that one or more of the three (including vetteman) is scum.  What does everyone think ?

actually i'm more for a Prof/GoW combo... prof cause i think he's scum, you cause you follow his lead a bit too much...that's actually the only part I have against you (that and a piece of metagaming that would in my mind break the rules, but it's not proof either it's just a hint).

I'm not opposed to FF either, he's been oscillating a lot comming here with focus and alternatively completely lost ... I don't think your long post is the first instance he's been skipping the days (can't blame him seeing the lenght, but it sure does give a shifty appearance to his play). So barring you, i'd currently think Prof/FF and a sibling for the last scum role if there is one.



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GodOfWar_3ever said:
Final-Fan said:

2.  OK, upon reviewing the thread, I don't really know what to say about how hard I dropped the ball on the GoW post.  I thought I'd read the whole post, and just skimmed the part where GoW made his argument or something, but apparently I just fucking skipped the last third of the post somehow.  My only excuse is that I was doing two or three other things at the same time, but there's really no good reason for it.  But that's what happened.  You can vote me if it's unforgivable, or if you really think my inattention points to me being scum, which it doesn't. 

3.  It occurs to me that I could do a better job than I have done of articulating my suspicions of Heph.  For instance, a while ago prof said something like "Heph said he was given the flavor to make up for ABC's clearing Vette".  I don't know why I didn't see fit to respond to this before.  What the hell kind of sense does that make?  ABC gives the town information, and makes up for it by giving the town even MORE information?  It would make more sense if information was given to the mafia.  Which is what I believe Heph is.  

2. As I've said before, making excuses outside of the game (like zarx), and not paying full attention (like silver-tiger) is scum tell to me.

3. I would think so too, but ABC has been interfering with the game often...with that claim about role PMs and if linkz is to be believed, his 2nd PM.


2 and what did you do in the post right before this you blamed a timezone.



GodOfWar_3ever said:
Linkzmax said:

Do you think a LD, a rolecop/tracker and a cop (with limitations like every other day investigations) is an impossible combo ?

Assuming things that the mod has decided is foolish, imo. We don't know the full extent of any of these roles. Maybe the LD, tracker have every other day limitations among them too ?

Why should the cop out himself to carry out something based on probabilities ?

Hephaestos said:

Say, how many games have you played here? how many had SKs or Vig? so yeah it's very unatural for people to even dare mention them...

A few...definitely not all. SF game, the game I made and the DBZ one. 

Mentioning SK/Vig isn't out of the ordinary...You always twist things I try to say, don't you ? But being almost sure that one exists...and even prioritizing on the vig, makes you look bad. I'd pin you for wildvine's scumbuddy for that.

You say vig (hypothesis) once then onwards you don't even think of the possibility of there not being one. 

Wonktonodi said:

I'm too tired to be making much of a case right now and don't have the time to put much together, but here is something. Profs weird connections with GOW had me paying more attention to GOW.

Things that have bothered me

1 the connection with prof with how easily he though prof was town

2 his thinking there still is a cop out there and not wanting the cop to claim

3. his focusing so much on wildvines lurking but iirc not anylising wv's post like he did for zarx

4. his asking heph to explain something that was in the first posts of the day, especially (iirc) after he was one to understand hephs role.

and now time to crash

1. Prof, when scum  does retarded things..Things like pretending to be drunk to vote for someone. Based on his actions on day 2, he looks town to me. Its just instinct.

2. I see no reason why the cop should claim, because he would lose control on who he wants to investigate. The cop coming forward when 2 investigative roles (if both claims are true) would out all the investigative roles to the mafia. As I've said, we don't know any limitations of the powers in question...So 3 investigative roles, each with a different function, with god knows what as limitations is possible. Most of this BS for the cop to come out is because some people are pompous enough to believe that they're always right, because there can't be a LD,a cop and a tracker. No sir.

3. I've explained this before. When I was going to do one for Wildvine, the possibility of him being modkilled arose. I did one for Vetteman too..but that got interrupted by the time limit and had to wait till day 2.

4. The turn of events that occured wasn't the turn of events that I remembered. I thought stefl said something like "shit, why did ToS  have to die..I knew he was pro-town" before heph implied that Stefl had visited ToS. Obviously that wasn't the case. Me figuring out heph's role was due to his swift vote/unvote on Stefl.

Crazy idea - Final-Fan/Heph double lynch with 4 votes each ? I'm convinced that one or more of the three (including vetteman) is scum.  What does everyone think ?


2. 3 investigative roles even with some hinderances would be way too much for the town. That is 3 people that the scum would have to take out to stop investigations. Even if there were every other day. THe more you say there could be 3 the more I think you  are setting us up for a scum face claim. If there is a cop. Heph could very well be a scum traker. Even if the cop was randomized he would still be useful and get a result.

3. that could be true or could be you just didn't do it on a scum mate and were only trying to get him to post more before but not get him lynched

4. I find if funny you are after FF for not fully reading your long ass post when you misread the first few posts of the day that were short.