You mentioned it a couple times but never really pushed the issue. GoW pushed the issue multiple times, and for a much shallower reason. Yours had some evidence behind it, his didn't. Yours wasn't really aggressive, his was. I thought I explained this already.

As far as my vote on wild, you're right. I didn't really have anything on him. I make, nor made, no claim that I correctly voted him. I make the claim that you didn't push when opportunity arose. Nothing more. Also, I'm sure you know by now that I hate the "i'm innocent" defense. I'm sure you can agree that your untraining on wild could be interpreted as scummy, so I don't care to hear the "it's not that at all" retort. I know you unvoted him because he's new. That doesn't absolve you of the scumminess of the action. Anyway, that's off-topic to this discussion.

I don't understand why you say, "do you mean Vette", when I quite distinctly wrote, "don't try to lynch someone simply because they aren't in your "i don't want to lynch today" group". The statement takes no sides. It's both Vette and FF. You plainly put everyone but those two in an "i don't want to lynch today" group, despite how you really feel about them. You say Heph would be a good lynch, but not today. You say I would be a good lynch, but not today. If me and Heph were scum, then you'd be looking to lynch innocent players simply because you're willing to lynch them. Is that clear? I thought it was very straightforward.

Also, I'm gunna lol at all those people who say, "I find it disturbing that the majority of people don't know my role yet", and yet can't figure out my role.

"Prof is intentionally making people explain vague things, he must be the SK or mafia. ANyone with half a brain, well, anyone TOWN can tell what my role is"

lulz on both the irony and the logic.

Votals coming right up.

----------------------

L-3; Time Limit: Stefl, Vette

---------------------

With 8 voters, 5 votes will result in a lynch

L-5; Stefl: Heph, (Heph), Prof, (Prof)

L-5; GodofWar: Heph, (Heph), Prof, (Prof)

L-2; Heph: Final-Fan, (Final-Fan), Final-Fan, Prof, Vette

L-2; Final-Fan: Heph, (Heph), SilverTiger, Linkz, Heph, (Heph), Stefl, (Stefl), GodofWar

L-5; Vette: Prof, Heph, (Prof), GodofWar, Prof, (Prof), (Heph), (GodofWar)

L-4; Prof: Heph, (Heph), Heph

----------------------

Voting History:

Heph: Stefl->Unvote->GodofWar->Unvote->Final-Fan->Unvote->Vette->Unvote->Prof->Unvote->Final-Fan->Unvote->Prof

Final-Fan: Heph->Unvote->Heph

Prof: Stefl->Unvote->Vette->Unvote->GodofWar->Unvote->Vette->Unvote->Heph

GodofWar: Vette->Unvote->Final-Fan

SilverTiger: Final-Fan

Linkz: Final-Fan

Stefl: Final-Fan->Unvote

Vetteman94: Heph

----------------------

Corrections would be greatly appreciated

In the previous votals, Final-Fan was written as having voted for himself and then unvoting; This was supposed to be Stefl voting for Final-Fan and unvoting.

I'm going to have to go back to the lack of a counterclaim here. If Heph flips scum, the lack of a cop claim would as FF says, "reinforce my belief that Stefl is legit." Zero investigative roles is quite unlikely in my opinion.

I know it was a joke, and a good one at that.(Which also caused me to spend far too much time checking out other dorkly bits) I don't know if a mafia that is about to suicide would still win, but it's not an issue for me since I'm town. I was just making it clear that I wouldn't do that even if it were possible, it's like cheating to me.

Fair enough. I found it odd that you want an end to the day, but honestly I like it better with you waiting until near the end to place a vote. It puts more pressure on others to try and steer lynches and divulge information.

Stefl linked the role immediately after the flip occured, and then pointed out the implications in the following post. It's possible that the role was tweaked a bit along with the alignment change, but that can't be known until post-game. I find it odd that GOW didn't look it up or made an assumption about the role.

Once again you're not putting yourself in the position of this supposed faction without the RB. They're the ones that have no reason to question your claim.

I think lovers that are mafia of different factions is somewhat imbalanced. Since the lover is already at risk of death due to the link, there's more reason to send them for the kill. If they're caught red-handed somehow then at least the link, who is not part of the scum faction will be taken out as well. It's the same risk as a mafia-townie pair, but twice that since both factions could consider such a strategy. It's more crap roles to land than imbalancing though. As for the later theory of vengeful mafia lovers, that should absolutely never happen. It would actually give incentive for mafia to have one of their own lynched, to the point that it's just as good as lynching anyone not of the mafia team.(barring roles)

At the moment I think it's unlikely there are two factions, and I'm not going to discuss it further unless more evidence comes to light. As for lynches being tough to go through, that could also be because the prospective lynchees aren't townies.

I'm too tired to be making much of a case right now and don't have the time to put much together, but here is something. Profs weird connections with GOW had me paying more attention to GOW.

Things that have bothered me

1 the connection with prof with how easily he though prof was town

2 his thinking there still is a cop out there and not wanting the cop to claim

3. his focusing so much on wildvines lurking but iirc not anylising wv's post like he did for zarx

4. his asking heph to explain something that was in the first posts of the day, especially (iirc) after he was one to understand hephs role.

and now time to crash

1.  I'm posting this in the dark, by which I mean I'm posting it before I read the stuff that's happened after I posted last. 

2.  OK, upon reviewing the thread, I don't really know what to say about how hard I dropped the ball on the GoW post.  I thought I'd read the whole post, and just skimmed the part where GoW made his argument or something, but apparently I just fucking skipped the last third of the post somehow.  My only excuse is that I was doing two or three other things at the same time, but there's really no good reason for it.  But that's what happened.  You can vote me if it's unforgivable, or if you really think my inattention points to me being scum, which it doesn't. 

3.  It occurs to me that I could do a better job than I have done of articulating my suspicions of Heph.  For instance, a while ago prof said something like "Heph said he was given the flavor to make up for ABC's clearing Vette".  I don't know why I didn't see fit to respond to this before.  What the hell kind of sense does that make?  ABC gives the town information, and makes up for it by giving the town even MORE information?  It would make more sense if information was given to the mafia.  Which is what I believe Heph is. 

4.  I'll read the new stuff now.