http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

It appears that you're right. I thought the Hider could hide himself from all night actions. 50% means probably every other day.

But I guess this points at a Serial Killer, and not Vigilante.  Or a 2nd mafia faction (Maybe 2 mafia each, or 2 mafia in one team and a single, powerful mafia in the other).  Because obviously, the mafia know who is pro-town or not...so they have no problems hiding behind a town role.. Further, mafiascum says its a pro-town role, so we don't know how the hell the role works on this game, with any variations ABC put on it ?

I think I've realized something important.

If the hider role is as its described above, then there has to be a 2nd mafia faction or serial killer (more likely, imo). [Or if the player targeted by the hider is vig killed..but I guess the chances of that happening would be very low...and the mafia aren't stupid enough to kill the person he hid against.]

Either way, I can't believe it, but I think you, Prof might be anti-town. I think you might be the Serial Killer. You've said, "At this time, I win with the town" meaning you could win alone if you want to (kinda like Heph in the SF round) , and I think you're trying to cause divisions among the town with crazy theories and your usual unorthodox style of play, so that you bring some suspicion on yourself so the mafia doesn't kill you tonight. Are you trying to somehow make it to the end of the game, and change your alignment and win alone ? :/

You claim to have been blocked, and there was only one kill on night one... I think you might be trying to hide behind the vigilante excuse, by hinting at it multiple times, and denying the existence of a SK in the process. And IIRC, Sk shows up innocent it cop investigations too.

Be rational, gow. I said I win with town if the game ended immediately, there is nothing about "changing my alignment". I even specifically said it wasn't like last round where Baal said the SK isn't scum (because his role was to turn FF). That has no reference to SK at all.

However, I'm glad someone finally looked at the hider role, as I assumed you all already had, and came to the conclusion that there wasn't much to know.

These are the facts.

A traditionally town role was mafia.
The role hides from night-kills.

From this, it is logical to propose that there may be other "switched" roles. ie; tracker, etc.

Aside from that, we can speculate that there is a second kill source which may in fact point to a second mafia team.

I haven't yet thought of this as a possible scenario. Immediately, this makes me look at the people questioning my RB claim since THEIR mafia faction might not have the blocker!

I wonder...could there be 2 factions of which each has one mafia lover? Or would that be imbalanced? It does bring to question the numerous relationships. Before, I was thinking the possible scum were ST/Linkz, Heph/someone, Vette/FF

Could there be 2 factions consisting of 3 mafia each? Each one having a lover? The large number of scum, 6 total, would indicate imbalance, except that if 2 were lovers (think of rival gang houses like montagues capulets), and the remaining 4 would be balanced by the fact that each has a chance of killing the other, correct? This would also indicate to me why it is becoming so hard to lynch someone. Normally, when a mafia thinks a townie is going to be lynched, they'll stay out of it.

But don't worry GoW. You're back on the radar now. I initialy thought that you couldn't sac your own teammate, but if there were a second faction, it would easily make sense for you to do so.

It also brings up the point of why Vette suggested that a kill was prevented.

This idea does bring up a lot of new questions, but I'm also thinking it's pretty farfetched. I think until we have more information, we shouldn't bother, because all it's doing is unconfirming people, for me at least.

Heph, you originally thought that the message said "too many questions, shoot him". How does the possibility of two mafia teams change your view? Perhaps it really did mean "shoot him". Don't you think?

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the whole matter, but if you'd rather not discuss it, that's ok too.

Poor trucks having to sit through this incredibly long game

I've been making lots of assumptions and trying to get people to see farfetched possibilities, so they'd be prepared if they are true, and come to bite them in the ass. So I'm "obvtown" since I firmly believed you were pro-town, and if I have a sliver of suspicion on you (based on a twisted theory) I'm back on the radar ? Or was it that you thought I was clear because my attitude towards wildvine and I wouldn't have acted the way I did towards him if he was a scumbuddy ? And you think me and wildvine are from different scum teams ? Is that it ? Which one is it, prof ?

I think a 2nd kill source is confirmed, either 3 mafia and SK or 2 mafia teams of 2 each look the most probable imo. 6 mafia is definitely overkill.

If you want to bring the lovers into the mafia equation (that went over my head), then we might be looking at one lover in each team, and also the roleblocker and mafia hider in opposite teams ?

Imo, that would be a fucking brilliant set up by the mod (if true). It fascinates me ! The use of the lovers in opposite mafia teams (if thats indeed the case) is just pure genius.

Lovers claim, town are afraid of lynching a lover in fear of losing 2 townies. One mafia faction doesn't kill the lover in the opposite mafia faction because there are only 2 mafia. Sexyness...OMFG, I just had a nerd orgasm (not really....I'm not that weird).

Oops, forgot to comment on the bolded and numbered part.

1. That was how I interpreted it when I looked at it again..Obviously, you wouldn't point it out to the town if that was the case, no ?

Also, I'm gonna be looking into the thread to see who thought there was the possibility of being a SK...if there is a 2 man scum team in a 13 man game, then they'd obviously assume that there'd be a SK or another mafia faction. Especially if they were on wildvine's team.

I don't know how you could even think it was the first one. Most of my support for you came from your attitude toward wildvine. Second faction would change things. Recall that at the end of my post I said, 'we should ignore the possibility of second faction for now until we have more evidence because it is only unconfirming people, for me anyway'.

But yeah, one lover in each team makes a lot of sense to me. I figured 6 simply because I have 6 suspects. I DID ask for if it would be imbalanced. 2v2 with one lover each makes a lot of sense. Additionally, making them vengeful lovers would also make sense. It's just that 2 factions, with one mafia lover each seems a bit of a handicap to the scum. To compensate, they could be vengeful lovers in which they can kill anyone on their lynch, and have additional roles. Hider also makes a shitload of sense given that setup balance.

Basically it means that the mafia is ok as long as their lover doesn't die, but if they do, they get to pick off someone in the train, and the surviving mafia is protected from kills.

It seems imbalanced, but recall we've also had a town bomb. (Further revelation; mafia role cop makes too much sense for a town psychopath) So, despite the seemingly weak mafia, vengeful lovers can take out additional players, town bomb can be used against the town, and LD can be countered by the blocker, we also have a stump. On the plus side, we had a role that could ensure LD gets a check off (though very bad choice)...

No, I would not lie about my role since that claim was preceded by "just in case there is a LD, they can check this"

that wouldn't matter since cops can't check SKs

amirite guys?

1.First mention of SK - wonk...nothing to see there

Replying to prof, who said trucks is always mafia. "no he's also often  SK, cultis and what always gets dsister; Canadian"

2. Then, notstan.

"But thus far, I think I am concrete with my vote, day one lynches are fruitless and are commonly based upon almost to no information - there is no knowledge of how mafia kills, if there are any serial killers, vigilantes or any other power roles that could help deduce the scum from town."

OK my argument isn't exactly looking too good. Both players so far have been pro-town.

3. Silver tiger on an analysis post...regarding heph

"Heph, Heph, Heph.... He was always the opposite of what I've been thinking. If I thought he was town, he was SK. If suspected him as scum, he turned up town."

He does mention SK...but not in this game.

4. Vetteman...in a controversial post.

"I think that just theprof being vague,  all my PMs when I have pro-town roles says that I win when the town wins, its probably him reciting his PM and adding a little extra too it to cause a stir. I cant think of a third party that would fall into that situation, third party kinda implies that he has his own win scenario like a cult or a SK."

This, however, isn't what I'm looking for when players mention SK. I want to see someone, being on a stance that shows that there could most probably be a SK in this game.

5. 

Jackpot !!!! Fits with my lovers = scum on opposite teams scenario too.

6. vetteman, in response to ST, above.

"Because he says that he wins when the town wins,  that kinda rules out third party as those have their own win condition.  Unless you are trying to get me to say I dont think there is a SK or a Cult in this game,  which is far from what I am saying.  Im only saying that given the information that theprof has given us I believe its safe to assume that he is not a third party role like the ones I listed."

7. Prof, @ ST

"And you also recently semi implied that I was a third party, commenting that SK or cult is not unlikely

regardless of whether you're right or wrong, that was an extremely interesting read.

care to comment more on that ? I'd like your input on the situation.