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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Understanding The problem of Copyright

Here is something to keep in mind regarding copyrights, and other protection of intellectual property: It is a means to insure the creators of intellectual property get compensated.  If the marketplace comes up with means by which they are able to get compensated beyond the normal routes, then it is possible to have the public domain show up.

I have done game designers.  Rather than try to protect what I have with paranoia over someone stealing my ideas.  I get my ideas up on the web first, in full exposure.  If any of my designs happen to become relevant, because someone takes them and runs with them, I would bank on curiousity to reveal I was an originator of the idea.  My belief now is that an idea is FAR more likely to get lost today than stolen, so I am in favor of exposure for what I have worked on.  I have seen enough stories of individuals trying to patent chess variants, for example.  They end up killing off any chance of having their design catch on if they do that.



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ssj12 said:
HappySqurriel said:

Copyright is a legal concept which was originally reasonable, and has been pushed to extreme levels in order protect the flawed business models of (certain) very large businesses.

and it was all brought about by Disney wanting to protect Mickey Mouse...

For the first time in my life.  I can say, I hate that mouse! lol



Edit: Wrong thread.



richardhutnik said:

Here is something to keep in mind regarding copyrights, and other protection of intellectual property: It is a means to insure the creators of intellectual property get compensated.  If the marketplace comes up with means by which they are able to get compensated beyond the normal routes, then it is possible to have the public domain show up.

I have done game designers.  Rather than try to protect what I have with paranoia over someone stealing my ideas.  I get my ideas up on the web first, in full exposure.  If any of my designs happen to become relevant, because someone takes them and runs with them, I would bank on curiousity to reveal I was an originator of the idea.  My belief now is that an idea is FAR more likely to get lost today than stolen, so I am in favor of exposure for what I have worked on.  I have seen enough stories of individuals trying to patent chess variants, for example.  They end up killing off any chance of having their design catch on if they do that.

The more people succeed with a model like your, the more support for public domain we get.

That is if you don't turn your back once you become a billionaire =)



The main problem is that is completely stifles creativity, the one and only thing is was originally created to protect.  The way it is now, no one can improve on something without the "rights" holders permission.  Also, the "rights" holders have no incentive to ever be creative again as they have their cash cow in place.

It's a complete clusterf**k.



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Albion said:
richardhutnik said:

Here is something to keep in mind regarding copyrights, and other protection of intellectual property: It is a means to insure the creators of intellectual property get compensated.  If the marketplace comes up with means by which they are able to get compensated beyond the normal routes, then it is possible to have the public domain show up.

I have done game designers.  Rather than try to protect what I have with paranoia over someone stealing my ideas.  I get my ideas up on the web first, in full exposure.  If any of my designs happen to become relevant, because someone takes them and runs with them, I would bank on curiousity to reveal I was an originator of the idea.  My belief now is that an idea is FAR more likely to get lost today than stolen, so I am in favor of exposure for what I have worked on.  I have seen enough stories of individuals trying to patent chess variants, for example.  They end up killing off any chance of having their design catch on if they do that.

The more people succeed with a model like your, the more support for public domain we get.

That is if you don't turn your back once you become a billionaire =)

I am not sure my model is really pushing for public domain, in the purest sense (I did use the term, but maybe a bit loosely).  What I advocate is a manage system of adopt and extend that allows the original creators of the IP to get adopted also (like imagine someone designs a collectable cardgame, or a deck building game like Dominion, where the community could create and sell cards to the community and all people involved get a cut).  Where I am now is that I have NO reputation as a game designer that generates money, so my games sit and generally get ignored, unless I mention them, and promote them like here.  Watch me shill this simultaneous turns version of Connect Four that people like: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/41491/simultaneous-captains-mistress

Here are the rules for it: http://games.wtanaka.com/simfour#rules

Here is where you can play it online, if you want to try it: http://games.wtanaka.com/simfour

It sits as not financially taking off, due to the fact it doesn't have a financial record, and people generally steal what they seek making money.  But, for practical reality, I just put it out there for exposure and hope someone picks it up and I can get a community behind my designs (well CADERS and IAGO are meant to be a vehicle for that).

Another thing I have, and why I can bring it up freely is a version of games like Connect Four, and can fit any other abstract strategy game where you take a crowd, divide them into two teams.  During the turn of a player's team, the players on that team vote for a move.  Biggest vote getter, with a tiebreaker mechanism, gets the vote.  When it isn't the turn of the team a player is on, they can defect to the other team.  That, in a nutshell is the design idea, and should work.  It has a lot of potential.  But, will anyone steal this and run with it, and try to make millions off it?  Nope.  The reason is that it doesn't have a track record of drawing people in to play it.  So it goes uncoded, eventhough if it took off, it would start to make money, and could make a LOT of money.  At that point, it would get ripped off.  Of course, with proper branding, all the ripoff attempts would merely remind people of the original.  And in this, the money wouldn't be in the game, but in the players and the community playing the game.

Anyhow, I am up for anyone who wants to work on any of my designs to contact me.  Or at least be up to try some.  Or shoot, join the CADERS community I have on Facebook.

Ok, I did my shill soapbox.  Will see if the money comes rolling in.



HappySqurriel said:
Kenny said:

I've known that copyight in the United States started at 14 years, but what that meant didn't really hit home for me until I realized that a system like this would mean Goldeneye 64 would enter the public domain in a few months' time.  Not only that, but every single game on the NES and SNES would also be in the public domain by now.  Unfortunately, reality dictates that cartoons from the 20s are still copyrighted, and will be for all time as long as Walt Disney successfully lobbies the government into extending the length of copyright every time Mickey Mouse comes close to entering the public domain.

But is 14 (or 25) years really unreasonable?

A company (like Disney or Nintendo) should be able to protect people from creating new works based on their IP with Trademarks, but after enough time has passed why is it wrong to let people have free access to this already created material? The company and its creators have turned massive profits already, and there is no legitimate argument that copying this material would cause any harm to the company (or the people who created the content).

To add to your point about harm (or lack thereof) to copyright holders:  With the advent of the internet, the speed at which we produce new ideas, as well as the rate at which they disseminate throughout the public, has increased drastically.  The flipside of that is that the time in which it takes for a copyrighted work to become irrelevant has undergone a corresponding decrease, in all but a handful of exceptional cases.  If anything, copyright terms should be getting shorter, not longer, to reflect the fact that society is speeding up.

Aside from Goldeneye 64, another good example is the Ultima series, a fantastic computer RPG series I grew up with; the works have almost completely faded into obscurity, and yet current copyright laws dictate that they will be under copyright until the late 21st century.  Society doesn't benefit from the copyright because they've forgotten about the series at large, and EA Games doesn't benefit because nobody is buying them anymore.  We have long since passed the point where copyright is good for the public in this case, seeing as EA has made all the money they're ever going to make on the games.



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