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Forums - Sony - And we are back to Square 1 as Sony implicates Anonymous to US House Probe

LivingMetal on 05 May 2011
Grimes said:
LivingMetal said:
Galaki said:
LivingMetal said:

I know what you're saying, but the "consumers rights" argument have been abused on these boards to give excuse to bash a console maker in this context.  I have openly voiced that the PS3 is my console of choice.  Sony has not violated my right as a consumers.  Hackers have made my gaming life "harder."  When Sony protects their IP, that in turn gives consumers such as I a better gaming experience.  Let's not take thing out of context to "prove" a point.

Remember that you're not the only customer. Just because it's okay to you may not be okay to someone else. They are just excercising their rights.

 

Oh, you mean those consumers who think they have a right to violate the TOS they agreed upon?

Terms of service isn't always binding and can be nullified rather easily. It's not the same thing as a signed contract.

And how is this specifically applicable?



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Grimes on 05 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:
LivingMetal said:
Galaki said:
LivingMetal said:

I know what you're saying, but the "consumers rights" argument have been abused on these boards to give excuse to bash a console maker in this context.  I have openly voiced that the PS3 is my console of choice.  Sony has not violated my right as a consumers.  Hackers have made my gaming life "harder."  When Sony protects their IP, that in turn gives consumers such as I a better gaming experience.  Let's not take thing out of context to "prove" a point.

Remember that you're not the only customer. Just because it's okay to you may not be okay to someone else. They are just excercising their rights.

 

Oh, you mean those consumers who think they have a right to violate the TOS they agreed upon?

Terms of service isn't always binding and can be nullified rather easily. It's not the same thing as a signed contract.

And how is this specifically applicable?

You can write whatever you want in a ToS, but it has to be consistent with case law. If case law dictates that something is allowable, the ToS can't deny somebody that right. Therefore if case law determines that it is legal to hack a system, for example a cell phone, the ToS can't take that right away. Likewise, if the courts were to determine it's ok to hack a console, then the ToS could not deny a person that right.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.

LivingMetal on 05 May 2011
Grimes said:
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:
LivingMetal said:
Galaki said:
LivingMetal said:

I know what you're saying, but the "consumers rights" argument have been abused on these boards to give excuse to bash a console maker in this context.  I have openly voiced that the PS3 is my console of choice.  Sony has not violated my right as a consumers.  Hackers have made my gaming life "harder."  When Sony protects their IP, that in turn gives consumers such as I a better gaming experience.  Let's not take thing out of context to "prove" a point.

Remember that you're not the only customer. Just because it's okay to you may not be okay to someone else. They are just excercising their rights.

 

Oh, you mean those consumers who think they have a right to violate the TOS they agreed upon?

Terms of service isn't always binding and can be nullified rather easily. It's not the same thing as a signed contract.

And how is this specifically applicable?

You can write whatever you want in a ToS, but it has to be consistent with case law. If case law dictates that something is allowable, the ToS can't deny somebody that right. Therefore if case law determines that it is legal to hack a system, for example a cell phone, the ToS can't take that right away. Likewise, if the courts were to determine it's ok to hack a console, then the ToS could not deny a person that right.


So does this apply to Sony in regards to the PS3?



Grimes on 05 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:

You can write whatever you want in a ToS, but it has to be consistent with case law. If case law dictates that something is allowable, the ToS can't deny somebody that right. Therefore if case law determines that it is legal to hack a system, for example a cell phone, the ToS can't take that right away. Likewise, if the courts were to determine it's ok to hack a console, then the ToS could not deny a person that right.


So does this apply to Sony in regards to the PS3?

If you think about it, the PS3 is a computer, not really any different than a Mac or PC. You have the right to hack your Mac or PC as you like. Therefore, I believe the court would have probably ruled that the PS3 is a computer, therefore can be hacked. Then ToS can't be used to take that right away from the user.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.

LivingMetal on 05 May 2011
Grimes said:
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:

You can write whatever you want in a ToS, but it has to be consistent with case law. If case law dictates that something is allowable, the ToS can't deny somebody that right. Therefore if case law determines that it is legal to hack a system, for example a cell phone, the ToS can't take that right away. Likewise, if the courts were to determine it's ok to hack a console, then the ToS could not deny a person that right.


So does this apply to Sony in regards to the PS3?

If you think about it, the PS3 is a computer, not really any different than a Mac or PC. You have the right to hack your Mac or PC as you like. Therefore, I believe the court would have probably ruled that the PS3 is a computer, therefore can be hacked. Then ToS can't be used to take that right away from the user.


So if this is the case, my point still stands.  Thanks.



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o_O.Q on 05 May 2011

@grimes

why therefore are hackers banned from xbox live? isn't that violated their rights? from what you're saying they should be allowed to do whatever thet like right? including the recent scheme i saw recently with people using point generators



thranx on 05 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:

You can write whatever you want in a ToS, but it has to be consistent with case law. If case law dictates that something is allowable, the ToS can't deny somebody that right. Therefore if case law determines that it is legal to hack a system, for example a cell phone, the ToS can't take that right away. Likewise, if the courts were to determine it's ok to hack a console, then the ToS could not deny a person that right.


So does this apply to Sony in regards to the PS3?

If you think about it, the PS3 is a computer, not really any different than a Mac or PC. You have the right to hack your Mac or PC as you like. Therefore, I believe the court would have probably ruled that the PS3 is a computer, therefore can be hacked. Then ToS can't be used to take that right away from the user.


So in this case, my point still stands.  Thanks.


Until someone can get another court case going the legality of it is up in the air. But given the fact that jailbreaking phones is perfectly legal, and hacking many other devices is legal, its pretty safe to assume that hacking your own console is legal also. Case law is kind of on the side of consumers in this one. But yes, its not set in stone either way.



LivingMetal on 05 May 2011
o_O.Q said:

@grimes

why therefore are hackers banned from xbox live? isn't that violated their rights? from what you're saying they should be allowed to do whatever thet like right? including the recent scheme i saw recently with people using point generators


Dude, we know what's up with some, and they continue to get away with it.  These guys might know a lot, but it's the application of knowledge what really counts.  Some use to abuse.



thranx on 05 May 2011
o_O.Q said:

@grimes

why therefore are hackers banned from xbox live? isn't that violated their rights? from what you're saying they should be allowed to do whatever thet like right? including the recent scheme i saw recently with people using point generators


You can only hack items you own. Just like you can only modify items you own. Xbox live network is owned by MS so only they can hack their network if they wanted too. No one has said people can do what ever they like, people have said they can do what ever they like to their own equiptment.



Grimes on 05 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:
LivingMetal said:
Grimes said:

You can write whatever you want in a ToS, but it has to be consistent with case law. If case law dictates that something is allowable, the ToS can't deny somebody that right. Therefore if case law determines that it is legal to hack a system, for example a cell phone, the ToS can't take that right away. Likewise, if the courts were to determine it's ok to hack a console, then the ToS could not deny a person that right.


So does this apply to Sony in regards to the PS3?

If you think about it, the PS3 is a computer, not really any different than a Mac or PC. You have the right to hack your Mac or PC as you like. Therefore, I believe the court would have probably ruled that the PS3 is a computer, therefore can be hacked. Then ToS can't be used to take that right away from the user.


So if this is the case, my point still stands.  Thanks.

To be honest, I don't even know what anybody is arguing anymore and care even less. But if you want to declare victory, go right on ahead. Have a parade.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.