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Forums - Sony - George Hotz hands remainder of donations to the EFF

Icyedge on 23 April 2011
thranx said:
Icyedge said:
thranx said:
Icyedge said:
Parasitic said:
Carl2291 said:
dsister said:

What's the point of releasing a second screenshot(assuming he made another donation)? He did this to insult Sony...

He's such an attention seeking cry baby


To be honest, Sony came off as the real crybabies for abit. Piracy has existed on the 360 for ages and the console is doing completely fine. The moment all that stuff came up on the ps3, Sony went berserk and blew things out of proportion.

The PSP also been hack for years and they did nothing. In any case, It wasnt wise to shout high and loud about creating and distributing this hack after so many years for the console to remain unhackable through a simple flash method. Microsoft or any other company that is, might very well do the same in a similar situation. If Geohot isnt seeking attention or should I say prestige,  he could do what hackers usually do, remain anonymous.

Personally, on one side I dont see fighting piracy as being cry baby. But, on the other side I dont see Geohot as being cry baby either, hes just seeking reconnaisance. Its a very intelligent guy but he need some time to become wiser.


I think the problem here is that they were not fighting piracy in any way. People keep trying to link this to piracy, but it wasn't about that. It was about fair use of your own equiptment. People say they went berserk because instead of going after pirates they targeted any one they could. I think most people on this site are anti piracy.


The difference I see between this and fair use of your own equipment is the distribution of the hack to anyone on the internet. Most of the people you dont even know them so thats not what I would call fair usage. Now, we would need to clarify this in our legal system since its a new reality we didnt have to live with before. Personally, I would have problem if Sony were to sue the installer or downloader of the said hack. As I said before, I dont support the removal of "other OS" but I dont think hackers are doing the right thing either.

 

Between, is it really your tatoo?

Yes it is my tatoo!

I would say fair usage is in the fact you bought the hardware you should be able to use it anyway you like that does not directly affect anothers persons rights.

Nothing he did directly affected anybody. Other people did the stuff that hacked the psn for cheaters or that hacked games for pirates.

Not all hackers are the same and that is the problem. Some are criminals, and otehrs are not. Just like every other group in society some do harm and others do not. By persecuting those that do not do harm to Sony they  are hurting their cause against those that do (pirates/cheaters)

Damn you were courageous ; ).

I agree with most of your comment. My problem is, I dont find it fair to distribute an hack to mass of people you dont even know, specifically in a situation like this where you know that this hack will easily allow pirating. I think we would gain from making the rules clearer, one way or another.



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pizzahut451 on 23 April 2011
SpartenOmega117 said:

^well said. i don't like geohot but it is entertaining to see that he brought Sony to its knees.


By agreeing that he will never touch any of Sony products again?



Kasz216 on 23 April 2011
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:

Lets not generalise here, we are talking about the distribution of an hack, we can be specific about this type of distribution. We can also be specific as to distributing in person (example to friends and family) remain in your rights. Internet cause new problems we didnt have before. I think we have to fix this ASAP, but thats an opinion for sure. Something sure, having the internet remain a gray zone doesnt help anyone whatever we decide as a society.

It's not generalzation.  It's just a simple fact of law.

You can't have something be legal only if you do it yourself becuase it's a form of segregation allowing rights only to those technologically able.

It's a completely untennable position.



thranx on 23 April 2011
Icyedge said:
thranx said:
Icyedge said:
thranx said:
Icyedge said:
Parasitic said:
Carl2291 said:
dsister said:

What's the point of releasing a second screenshot(assuming he made another donation)? He did this to insult Sony...

He's such an attention seeking cry baby


To be honest, Sony came off as the real crybabies for abit. Piracy has existed on the 360 for ages and the console is doing completely fine. The moment all that stuff came up on the ps3, Sony went berserk and blew things out of proportion.

The PSP also been hack for years and they did nothing. In any case, It wasnt wise to shout high and loud about creating and distributing this hack after so many years for the console to remain unhackable through a simple flash method. Microsoft or any other company that is, might very well do the same in a similar situation. If Geohot isnt seeking attention or should I say prestige,  he could do what hackers usually do, remain anonymous.

Personally, on one side I dont see fighting piracy as being cry baby. But, on the other side I dont see Geohot as being cry baby either, hes just seeking reconnaisance. Its a very intelligent guy but he need some time to become wiser.


I think the problem here is that they were not fighting piracy in any way. People keep trying to link this to piracy, but it wasn't about that. It was about fair use of your own equiptment. People say they went berserk because instead of going after pirates they targeted any one they could. I think most people on this site are anti piracy.


The difference I see between this and fair use of your own equipment is the distribution of the hack to anyone on the internet. Most of the people you dont even know them so thats not what I would call fair usage. Now, we would need to clarify this in our legal system since its a new reality we didnt have to live with before. Personally, I would have problem if Sony were to sue the installer or downloader of the said hack. As I said before, I dont support the removal of "other OS" but I dont think hackers are doing the right thing either.

 

Between, is it really your tatoo?

Yes it is my tatoo!

I would say fair usage is in the fact you bought the hardware you should be able to use it anyway you like that does not directly affect anothers persons rights.

Nothing he did directly affected anybody. Other people did the stuff that hacked the psn for cheaters or that hacked games for pirates.

Not all hackers are the same and that is the problem. Some are criminals, and otehrs are not. Just like every other group in society some do harm and others do not. By persecuting those that do not do harm to Sony they  are hurting their cause against those that do (pirates/cheaters)

Damn you were courageous ; ).

I agree with most of your comment. My problem is, I dont find it fair to distribute an hack to mass of people you dont even know, specifically in a situation like this where you know that this hack will easily allow pirating. I think we would gain from making the rules clearer, one way or another.

So than we are back to jailbreaking your ipohone should not have been aloud. What are your thoughts on that case?



Icyedge on 24 April 2011
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Lets not generalise here, we are talking about the distribution of an hack, we can be specific about this type of distribution. We can also be specific as to distributing in person (example to friends and family) remain in your rights. Internet cause new problems we didnt have before. I think we have to fix this ASAP, but thats an opinion for sure. Something sure, having the internet remain a gray zone doesnt help anyone whatever we decide as a society.

It's not generalzation.  It's just a simple fact of law.

You can't have something be legal only if you do it yourself becuase it's a form of segregation allowing rights only to those technologically able.

It's a completely untennable position.


Its not about removing the right to modify what you want the way you want. Its about removing the right to distribute circumvention devices. Keep in mind that installing with a friend or family member, like it was before, isnt distributing. Will happen what we want to make of it as a society. Piracy will just get worst, im of the opinion we should change the legislation to make sense with the current era. Sooner the better if you ask me, but im a very rightful and idealist guy.



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Icyedge on 24 April 2011
thranx said:
Icyedge said:
 

Damn you were courageous ; ).

I agree with most of your comment. My problem is, I dont find it fair to distribute an hack to mass of people you dont even know, specifically in a situation like this where you know that this hack will easily allow pirating. I think we would gain from making the rules clearer, one way or another.

So than we are back to jailbreaking your ipohone should not have been aloud. What are your thoughts on that case?

I think we should legiferate that cell phone provider and manufacturer cant lock the phone to one provider and then make it clear that distribution of jailbreaking tool is illegal. Win-win situation. You?



Kasz216 on 24 April 2011
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Lets not generalise here, we are talking about the distribution of an hack, we can be specific about this type of distribution. We can also be specific as to distributing in person (example to friends and family) remain in your rights. Internet cause new problems we didnt have before. I think we have to fix this ASAP, but thats an opinion for sure. Something sure, having the internet remain a gray zone doesnt help anyone whatever we decide as a society.

It's not generalzation.  It's just a simple fact of law.

You can't have something be legal only if you do it yourself becuase it's a form of segregation allowing rights only to those technologically able.

It's a completely untennable position.


Its not about removing the right to modify what you want the way you want. Its about removing the right to distribute circumvention devices. Keep in mind that installing with a friend or family member, like it was before, isnt distributing. Will happen what we want to make of it as a society. Piracy will just get worst, im of the opinion we should change the legislation to make sense with the current era. Sooner the better if you ask me, but im a very rightful and idealist guy.

 How isn't it?



Icyedge on 24 April 2011
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:


Its not about removing the right to modify what you want the way you want. Its about removing the right to distribute circumvention devices. Keep in mind that installing with a friend or family member, like it was before, isnt distributing. Will happen what we want to make of it as a society. Piracy will just get worst, im of the opinion we should change the legislation to make sense with the current era. Sooner the better if you ask me, but im a very rightful and idealist guy.

 How isn't it?

Theres a dinstinction between showing a friend how to modify his console and distributing. Let alone that giving something to someone you know isnt distributing. The reality is, when you can download files on the internet and then simply flash the BIOS of your system it allows the piracy to become rampant. Its a problem that will just go worst, I think we should try to find a way to fix it as well as respect consumers right as much as possible. Or, lets leave it like that with the pretext that its in consumers right to distribute circumvention device and lets have more and more creativity goes to waste.



Kasz216 on 24 April 2011
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
 


Its not about removing the right to modify what you want the way you want. Its about removing the right to distribute circumvention devices. Keep in mind that installing with a friend or family member, like it was before, isnt distributing. Will happen what we want to make of it as a society. Piracy will just get worst, im of the opinion we should change the legislation to make sense with the current era. Sooner the better if you ask me, but im a very rightful and idealist guy.

 How isn't it?

Theres a dinstinction between showing a friend how to modify his console and distributing. Let alone that giving something to someone you know isnt distributing. The reality is, when you can download files on the internet and then simply flash the BIOS of your system it allows the piracy to become rampant. Its a problem that will just go worst, I think we should try to find a way to fix it as well as respect consumers right as much as possible. Or, lets leave it like that with the pretext that its in consumers right to distribute circumvention device and lets have more and more creativity goes to waste.


No there isn't.  There is littlerly no distinction there.  If the problem gets bad enough.... then it probably indicates that the buisness model for videogames is broken.

Though considering the problem isn't worse then say... PC, wii, 360 andDS games which do perfectly well and are perfectly profitable... it's an asnine arguement to make.

People keep arguing about the PS3 as if it's the first console to be hacked, instead of the last console.



Icyedge on 24 April 2011
Kasz216 said:


No there isn't.  There is littlerly no distinction there.  If the problem gets bad enough.... then it probably indicates that the buisness model for videogames is broken.

Though considering the problem isn't worse then say... PC, wii, 360 andDS games which do perfectly well and are perfectly profitable... it's an asnine arguement to make.

People keep arguing about the PS3 as if it's the first console to be hacked, instead of the last console.

 

Perfectly profitable or not (between artist arent all mainstream and rich), I dont see that as an excuse to justify piracy. Your talking like pirating can be seen as a taxes on profit. With that said, I never said it was impossible to have success with the current market or that the PS3 was the first console to get hack, others yes. Personally, im just using the opportunity to express my thoughts on the internet and piracy.