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Forums - General - So, the French law opposing ninjas goes into effect.

Lostplanet22 on 13 April 2011
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:

Or to further elaborate.   Time and time again has shown that economic issues without changing the social issues leads to a huge backlash and possible eventual regression, making such efforts a failed effort.

Turkey actually being a great example.

Afterall the elected officials are doing everything they can now to repeal the burqa ban, but are being stopped by unelected officials.

How much did it really change opinions in turkey?

Yes thx to erdogan who believes that the seperation of church and state is wrong...His views about the Islam are that fundamental that he gets the support of muslims who are against the believe that women and men are equal.... And who is supporting this man?  Yes the USA..



TURKEY: Murders of Muslim women up 1400% since Erdogan took office
Posted: February 27, 2011 | Author: barenakedislam | Filed under: EnemyWithin-foreign | 24 Comments »
Significant women’s rights legislation has been passed in Turkey in recent years, but now that a radical Islamist is in charge, those rights are ignored and (‘honor’) abuse/killings of women by Muslim men is on the rise.


The Balance of power between the forces of radical Islam and Western democracy underwent a monumental sea change recently when 58% of the voters in Turkey approved of a referendum that will bolster the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) and serve to transform the once secular nation into an Islamic republic.

This is bad news for the secularists since Erdogan in the past has attempted to dissolve all distinction between mosque and state. He instituted legislation that would make adultery a criminal offense and attempted to lift the ban on women wearing head coverings and burqas in the public universities. “This is a radical decision point for the future of Turkey,” said lawyer Baris Aslan. “This is the spot between the religious and the secular, between despotism or democracy.

Despite the fact that Turkey under the AKP strengthened its bonds to Iran and Syria and severed its ties to Israel, President Barack Obama has been supportive of the Erdogan regime, lauding what he called Turkey’s thriving democracy.

I don't see your point.

 

Outside dodging the fact that i'm right by trying to get me to bite on the bait that the US is supporting them.

My point:  Their is a good reason why the unelected officials are trying to stop it;..  The ones who are elected have an radical view about the Islam and with Erdogan who has been in jail for hate speech and have worrying ideas about the Islam and the rest of the non-muslim world..  If you then use those kind of people to show me that people wants to end the burqa ban then you are not helping the idea that an non- burqa ban is a good thing...in contrary..

And their is no bait here atleast I was not trying to let you bite,  my point is that USA (the government) supporting a person like him is rather a mistake than a good thing but if you did some research you would find that their are enough persons in the USA who are worried about witch way Turkey is following with Erdogan and his supporters..

Oh, i'd agree it's a mistake, that's why it's a faulty bait.  We shouldn't be supporting unelected officials attempts at stifling democracy either however.

Your point is erronious however.

Afterall he was elected.

These extremists were elected, after the burqa ban which was supposed to demorilize people.

Did it demoralize them?  Or did it charge them up to the point of where they were able to elect an extremist?

If it really demoralized them, the people wouldn't be seeking the removal of the ban.

The ban is already being slowly decriminalize.  How long do you think the minoirty of the unelected courts could hold out, and how long could they hold out in france once it becomes mostly muslim?

All it does is keep the idea out of mind until it becomes too big and issue.

Well I am for sure not supporting those unelected officials either..

That people got charged up had not much to do with the ban of the burqa or headscarfs at public sector...but more of what happened the last decennia's, Turkey is an developping Economic power with the ability to become the biggest economic power in Europe this in hand with achievements on many levels like in the sportworld (Football) has pumped up patriosm and nationalism that all is fine but sadly thx to Erdogan and plenty of Imams who are pointing out that the Western World is against the Islam it also increases the radical views of Islams and constructing a hate against the Western World in name of the Islam...The rise of the Radical view of the Islam in the country has pointed out in plenty occations (like the article I posted) and is creating even fear in the population mostly women and elders who are afraid of witch path the government is going no wonder that the people who have a radical view of the Islam wants to stop the ban..

How long the ban will exist in Turkey no idea;..  How long in France no idea;.but is not because a country will have a muslim majority that the majority also wants to end the ban...Plenty of muslim women wanted the ban and plenty of Muslim women in Europe are warning/ have warned Europe for the dangers of the growth of the Radical islam one of those women is Hirsin Ali who even went so far to make a movie about it...her partner the Dutch Theo Van Gogh was murdered for that movie and she fled the country (I guess she is now in USA)..



 

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ProdigyBam on 13 April 2011
badgenome said:

Wow. Some dumbass in Florida killed people on the other side of the planet by burning a book? That's one a hell of a trick.


Hahahaha, at least one guy with a brain... :/ Why blame the muslims, when we can just blame some pastor who burned his own quran, but yeah, islam means peace, i know ;)



Fedor Emelianenko - Greatest Fighter and most humble man to ever walk the earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVrNOQtlzY

ImJustBayuum on 13 April 2011
richardhutnik said:
ImJustBayuum said:

how did a thread about france banning the face veil ended up a thread about revolutions, turkeys future direction and dictatorship in the Middle East.

I support the ban. A burqa is not modesty (as require by the qu'ran) its fucken extreme.

By means of mental associations, one thing lead to another.  I personally don't support the burqa, but I am more opposed to government acting in this manner, and also support people being able to be anonymous in public.  Then again, this comes from an American perspective, which has a constitution insuring freedoms. 

The freedom of expression is extreme.  I once saw a guy who had cosmetic surgery (I assume he wasn't born that way) to make himself look like a devil.  That is extreme to me.  Why would I end up supporting this?


Yeah I also enjoy living in a society with extremely high freedom and I also support people's right to privacy..but in some very rare cases I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of right to freedom for  the good of society as a whole.

That devil example is also an extreme freedom of expression, but did he as a result of this expression of freedom increase the security risks for society and public. IMO no, well I hope not.



Rath on 13 April 2011

I'd like to point out that the effect on France's large ninja population should be minimal. Afterall, you need to be seen with your face covered in public to get in trouble.



miz1q2w3e on 13 April 2011

A ban on someone wearing a certain piece of clothing? What is the world coming to?



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Kasz216 on 13 April 2011
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:

Or to further elaborate.   Time and time again has shown that economic issues without changing the social issues leads to a huge backlash and possible eventual regression, making such efforts a failed effort.

Turkey actually being a great example.

Afterall the elected officials are doing everything they can now to repeal the burqa ban, but are being stopped by unelected officials.

How much did it really change opinions in turkey?

Yes thx to erdogan who believes that the seperation of church and state is wrong...His views about the Islam are that fundamental that he gets the support of muslims who are against the believe that women and men are equal.... And who is supporting this man?  Yes the USA..



TURKEY: Murders of Muslim women up 1400% since Erdogan took office
Posted: February 27, 2011 | Author: barenakedislam | Filed under: EnemyWithin-foreign | 24 Comments »
Significant women’s rights legislation has been passed in Turkey in recent years, but now that a radical Islamist is in charge, those rights are ignored and (‘honor’) abuse/killings of women by Muslim men is on the rise.


The Balance of power between the forces of radical Islam and Western democracy underwent a monumental sea change recently when 58% of the voters in Turkey approved of a referendum that will bolster the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) and serve to transform the once secular nation into an Islamic republic.

This is bad news for the secularists since Erdogan in the past has attempted to dissolve all distinction between mosque and state. He instituted legislation that would make adultery a criminal offense and attempted to lift the ban on women wearing head coverings and burqas in the public universities. “This is a radical decision point for the future of Turkey,” said lawyer Baris Aslan. “This is the spot between the religious and the secular, between despotism or democracy.

Despite the fact that Turkey under the AKP strengthened its bonds to Iran and Syria and severed its ties to Israel, President Barack Obama has been supportive of the Erdogan regime, lauding what he called Turkey’s thriving democracy.

I don't see your point.

 

Outside dodging the fact that i'm right by trying to get me to bite on the bait that the US is supporting them.

My point:  Their is a good reason why the unelected officials are trying to stop it;..  The ones who are elected have an radical view about the Islam and with Erdogan who has been in jail for hate speech and have worrying ideas about the Islam and the rest of the non-muslim world..  If you then use those kind of people to show me that people wants to end the burqa ban then you are not helping the idea that an non- burqa ban is a good thing...in contrary..

And their is no bait here atleast I was not trying to let you bite,  my point is that USA (the government) supporting a person like him is rather a mistake than a good thing but if you did some research you would find that their are enough persons in the USA who are worried about witch way Turkey is following with Erdogan and his supporters..

Oh, i'd agree it's a mistake, that's why it's a faulty bait.  We shouldn't be supporting unelected officials attempts at stifling democracy either however.

Your point is erronious however.

Afterall he was elected.

These extremists were elected, after the burqa ban which was supposed to demorilize people.

Did it demoralize them?  Or did it charge them up to the point of where they were able to elect an extremist?

If it really demoralized them, the people wouldn't be seeking the removal of the ban.

The ban is already being slowly decriminalize.  How long do you think the minoirty of the unelected courts could hold out, and how long could they hold out in france once it becomes mostly muslim?

All it does is keep the idea out of mind until it becomes too big and issue.

Well I am for sure not supporting those unelected officials either..

That people got charged up had not much to do with the ban of the burqa or headscarfs at public sector...but more of what happened the last decennia's, Turkey is an developping Economic power with the ability to become the biggest economic power in Europe this in hand with achievements on many levels like in the sportworld (Football) has pumped up patriosm and nationalism that all is fine but sadly thx to Erdogan and plenty of Imams who are pointing out that the Western World is against the Islam it also increases the radical views of Islams and constructing a hate against the Western World in name of the Islam...The rise of the Radical view of the Islam in the country has pointed out in plenty occations (like the article I posted) and is creating even fear in the population mostly women and elders who are afraid of witch path the government is going no wonder that the people who have a radical view of the Islam wants to stop the ban..

How long the ban will exist in Turkey no idea;..  How long in France no idea;.but is not because a country will have a muslim majority that the majority also wants to end the ban...Plenty of muslim women wanted the ban and plenty of Muslim women in Europe are warning/ have warned Europe for the dangers of the growth of the Radical islam one of those women is Hirsin Ali who even went so far to make a movie about it...her partner the Dutch Theo Van Gogh was murdered for that movie and she fled the country (I guess she is now in USA)..

I can't quite get the point your trying to make here.



richardhutnik on 13 April 2011
ImJustBayuum said:
richardhutnik said:
ImJustBayuum said:

how did a thread about france banning the face veil ended up a thread about revolutions, turkeys future direction and dictatorship in the Middle East.

I support the ban. A burqa is not modesty (as require by the qu'ran) its fucken extreme.

By means of mental associations, one thing lead to another.  I personally don't support the burqa, but I am more opposed to government acting in this manner, and also support people being able to be anonymous in public.  Then again, this comes from an American perspective, which has a constitution insuring freedoms. 

The freedom of expression is extreme.  I once saw a guy who had cosmetic surgery (I assume he wasn't born that way) to make himself look like a devil.  That is extreme to me.  Why would I end up supporting this?

Yeah I also enjoy living in a society with extremely high freedom and I also support people's right to privacy..but in some very rare cases I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of right to freedom for  the good of society as a whole.

That devil example is also an extreme freedom of expression, but did he as a result of this expression of freedom increase the security risks for society and public. IMO no, well I hope not

Look at the motivation behind the ban.  Is it, at heart, security concerns or something other, like a cultural war against religions fundamentalism?  Name any society that isn't considering such a ban that is doing it out of security concerns, and not because they don't like Fundamentalist Islam in their society.  It is because of a set of value some hold in society, and try to express, that the ban is put in place.  Security is said as the reason, but is it really?

And, when this right to believe is fought against, combined with the inability to hide onself to protest it, then what do you think happens?  Give the government the ability to track, know and follow what everyone is doing in society and what comes next here?  In thast case, what is the real security risks?



ImJustBayuum on 14 April 2011
richardhutnik said:
ImJustBayuum said:

Yeah I also enjoy living in a society with extremely high freedom and I also support people's right to privacy..but in some very rare cases I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of right to freedom for  the good of society as a whole.

That devil example is also an extreme freedom of expression, but did he as a result of this expression of freedom increase the security risks for society and public. IMO no, well I hope not

Look at the motivation behind the ban.  Is it, at heart, security concerns or something other, like a cultural war against religions fundamentalism?  Name any society that isn't considering such a ban that is doing it out of security concerns, and not because they don't like Fundamentalist Islam in their society.  It is because of a set of value some hold in society, and try to express, that the ban is put in place.  Security is said as the reason, but is it really?

And, when this right to believe is fought against, combined with the inability to hide onself to protest it, then what do you think happens?  Give the government the ability to track, know and follow what everyone is doing in society and what comes next here?  In thast case, what is the real security risks?


Well you are being a little paranoid to think that. The far left and the far right are both using fear to justify their concerns..ie fear of fundamentalist muslims freely practicing their ideologies/values and imposing their views on young followers VERSUS fear of goverment invading one's privacy and one's right to protest anonymously.

IMO my security concerns with the full face covering is legitimate, but that does not mean I fully oppose someone's right to practice their own beliefs.