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Forums - General - So, the French law opposing ninjas goes into effect.

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Lostplanet22 said:
dsister said:

Haven't a couple of middle eastern countries banned them too?


Tunesia and Turkey;..  The last one thanks to Ataturk..


So why is it that when France does it is a problem? 

The US should do it too. I believe there is already a ban on wearing masks in public on every day besides Halloween. This should fall under that 



Sig thanks to Saber! :D 

Is this banning the face being covered or all of head?

I'm guessing face as the head scarf would be stupid to ban.

In regards to face... its still kinda stupd.

1. a hat, glasses and face mask (as in covering the mouth) is pretty much the same covering. As is many bike helmets and other items.

2. I hope this is limited to places where you have to be ID'd. In other words, places where your picture must be visible like a driver's license or entering federal buildings and such. In general form as related to #1, its a stupid idea.

3. Wearing a face covering for religious beliefs does nothing to harm anyone else. Hell, it doesn't even harm the wearer. So to force it to be illegal in a general sense is beyond the realm of law. To me it should be protected under individual rights of worship and dress.

I think this is a bad precedent the French are creating.

Granted, this all stems from my understanding that this is a general ban and not limited to areas I mentioned under #2.

I know Turkey limits it to specific arenas that involve a requirement to ID the person. That is ok as its necessary to see that person's face at that time. Then the person is simply making the decision to never need to be in a place like that.



dsister said:
Lostplanet22 said:
dsister said:

Haven't a couple of middle eastern countries banned them too?


Tunesia and Turkey;..  The last one thanks to Ataturk..


So why is it that when France does it it's a problem?

The US should do it too. I believe there is already a ban on wearing masks in public on every day besides Halloween. This should fall under that

Political correctness..

If you say as an politician that you support it you probably lose more votes than gain some..

The media trying to be neutral, show this law as a good thing will automaticall put them in the right camp.. 

but would like to get an answer to this question from an anti burqa ban fan aswell..



 

richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:

Wow. Some dumbass in Florida killed people on the other side of the planet by burning a book? That's one a hell of a trick.

That is like telling some dumbass to not kick a hornet's nest, but does it anyway.  And then there were consequences.

Not really. Hornets sting because of instinct, so they don't have any choice in the matter. Plus they tend to sting the person who disturbed them. If you burn a book I really like, I'm not going to kill some random person in response. And if I did, it certainly wouldn't be your fault.



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badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:

Wow. Some dumbass in Florida killed people on the other side of the planet by burning a book? That's one a hell of a trick.

That is like telling some dumbass to not kick a hornet's nest, but does it anyway.  And then there were consequences.

Not really. Hornets sting because of instinct, so they don't have any choice in the matter. Plus they tend to sting the person who disturbed them. If you burn a book I really like, I'm not going to kill some random person in response. And if I did, it certainly wouldn't be your fault.

In this case if they tell you to NOT to knock down a hornet's nest, because it will land in your neighbor's yard, and you do it anyway, to show how evil the hornets are, and your neighbors get hurt, then you display questionable judgment.  Anyhow, my initial point of bringing that up was to show, shoot, maybe the French do have cause.  Might as well keep them out so that guys don't end up harming people in their country because someone with questionable judgment does something.



richardhutnik said:

In this case if they tell you to NOT to knock down a hornet's nest, because it will land in your neighbor's yard, and you do it anyway, to show how evil the hornets are, and your neighbors get hurt, then you display questionable judgment.  Anyhow, my initial point of bringing that up was to show, shoot, maybe the French do have cause.  Might as well keep them out so that guys don't end up harming people in their country because someone with questionable judgment does something.

Analogies aren't really your strong suit.



dsister said:
Lostplanet22 said:
dsister said:

Haven't a couple of middle eastern countries banned them too?


Tunesia and Turkey;..  The last one thanks to Ataturk..


So why is it that when France does it is a problem? 

The US should do it too. I believe there is already a ban on wearing masks in public on every day besides Halloween. This should fall under that 

Is Holloween some sort of sacred day that it should exempt security concerns over any other day?

This being said, what kind of society do you want to live in, where individuals are not able to maintain privacy who have not committted criminal acts and forfeited their right to privacy?  Since when is does the government have every right to know who you are, and what you do at all times, or be able to find this out with absolute certainty?  You do realize that if the government had this ability, it is in prime position to impose a police state which will then end up being able to crack down and oppress those who are opposed.  Don't assume one minute that it won't happen.  In France, they have decided to target ALL Muslim fundamentalists and indoctrinate them in beliefs that they are opposed to.  They say they do the law in the name of "security", but it is really to oppose Islam as a religion in their society, and values that people are opposed to.  Women who voluntarily decide to cover their faces in the name of modesty, to be judged my their character are told they are not allowed to.  They are forced by society to end up getting into the entire vanity thing, showing faces.  That is what the French want there, as do the other nations.  It is state control of values, and mandates of the majority to confirm.

In the case of public protests, individuals may want to wear masks to protest their identity.  Of course, one may want to ban it.

But, shoot, if you want it for the United States also, more power to you.  The United States can also decide to outlaw interracial marriage while it is at it also. 



badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

In this case if they tell you to NOT to knock down a hornet's nest, because it will land in your neighbor's yard, and you do it anyway, to show how evil the hornets are, and your neighbors get hurt, then you display questionable judgment.  Anyhow, my initial point of bringing that up was to show, shoot, maybe the French do have cause.  Might as well keep them out so that guys don't end up harming people in their country because someone with questionable judgment does something.

Analogies aren't really your strong suit.

The analogy I gave last is appropriate here.  The pastor wanted to be able to get attention by doing that, so he could expose Islam as something horrible.  He gets a lot of media attention, and then decides to burn the Qu'ran.  He has a right to in America, as a freedom of expression, the same way that people have a right to burn flags.  However, it is recommended people think about what may happen if it is done.  If you know a mob is going to act like a bunch of angry hornets, if you say or do something, and someone gets hurt, it is important to think about whether to do it or not.



richardhutnik said:

Is Holloween some sort of sacred day that it should exempt security concerns over any other day?

This being said, what kind of society do you want to live in, where individuals are not able to maintain privacy who have not committted criminal acts and forfeited their right to privacy?  Since when is does the government have every right to know who you are, and what you do at all times, or be able to find this out with absolute certainty?  You do realize that if the government had this ability, it is in prime position to impose a police state which will then end up being able to crack down and oppress those who are opposed.  Don't assume one minute that it won't happen.  In France, they have decided to target ALL Muslim fundamentalists and indoctrinate them in beliefs that they are opposed to.  They say they do the law in the name of "security", but it is really to oppose Islam as a religion in their society, and values that people are opposed to.  Women who voluntarily decide to cover their faces in the name of modesty, to be judged my their character are told they are not allowed to.  They are forced by society to end up getting into the entire vanity thing, showing faces.  That is what the French want there, as do the other nations.  It is state control of values, and mandates of the majority to confirm.

But, shoot, if you want it for the United States also, more power to you.  The United States can also decide to outlaw interracial marriage while it is at it also. 

You have argued in the past that if people neglect their responsibilities, the government will have to do it for them and deprive them of certain liberties in the process, so you can't honestly be surprised that if Muslim immigrants fail to assimilate, the French state will take steps to force them to do so.