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Forums - Sony - Sony and Geohot reach a settlement

thismeintiel said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
padib said:

 

 

@kasz - I loved reading that, it reads so well.

So, when it comes to the legal system and how things played out, Sony was actually in a losing position because they had no more options (due to the Judicial Estrappel). Couldn't they just drop the OtherOS case and focus on this one to win and avoid getting caught in two crossing paths? As for Hotz, I don't think he signed the settlement only because he lacked the funds (I'm hoping the guy has a little more fight in him). My thought was that he probably realized Sony had lost face enough (as said before the whole David vs. Goliath analogy) and figured there were plenty other hackers out there to carry on the torche without him spending any money, what's your opinion on that?

For the others, as I said before, the thing is your to own, so fanboys back off. I don't care what system it is, matter of fact I homebrewed my Wii as soon as I learned about it. The guy is not a cheater, and he is not a pirate. A terrible rapper, yes, but for all the rest a big no. Enough with the hating already.

Geez you read the comments in some of the forums online, and it's almost nuts. At least here people are still reasonable.

 

Sony can't drop the Other OS case because they're the defendents in it.  It's a class action suit against sony for removing Other OS.

I mean, they could settle that I guess, but they weren't expected to lose it.  Plus if they then won the hotz litigation, they'd not only lose that defense when it came to Other OS.  They'd lose it for any lawsuit against them period.

Having a sturdy shield is better then a piercing sword if your a large corporation i'd guess.


which unfortunately for Sony, they have a ton of people pissed at them. I know at least 50 people, not including me, that used OtherOS that has requested to be added to the suit. A sturdy shield isn't enough to fend off hundreds or people, let alone thousands. Think about all the medical scientists that probably put their names into this suit. Sony's shield will break under the weight of medical science.

And If im not mistaken, aren't people in Europe also trying to fight for OtherOS to be put back?

Why would medical scientists add themselves to the case?  I'll answer that.  They wouldn't.  If anyone was using the PS3 in a cluster, why would they upgrade?  Again, I'll answer, they wouldn't.  That's why Sony isn't getting sued by the US gov't for removing OtherOS, even when the Navy is using the PS3 in a cluster. 

The OtherOS case probably won't go anywhere.  You know why?  Sony didn't force you to remove the OtherOS in the first place.  They even put out announcements about what the new FW would do and even had you confirm it twice before it would even install.  In the end, YOU chose playing newer games and the PSN over PS3 Linux.  It was YOUR choice.

Actually i didnt have any choice. I bought my system to have all functions. Sony gave me an ultimatum that went against consumer rights. I lost a function I wanted and liked. I want all the functionality, and ability to play all new games. This is why I put my name against Sony's in the suit. There was no fair deal in this. Why do you think the suit started the day the firmware removing it started? It was unfair to the consumers who bought that game console as a game console with awesome features that were advertised by the media.

And don't give me none of that "it wasn't in the TV adverts." Well guess what, the adverts had a scary demonic baby doll and an exploding Rubik cube at launch. They weren't even advertising the damn system. All advertising for the functions were from the gaming media online and on their own website.

Also your reasoning for why medical scientists would join is wrong. The PS3 is a cheap super computer, with the update they can't get any more PS3s with OtherOS, meaning that expansion of the clusters died with the firmware. They have every reason to join because they can't expand their systems with cheap raw power that is the cell processor.

Same could be said about the Navy. But since the Navy is apart of the US government, they love wasting money so losing the PS3 was a drop in the bucket for their average spending.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
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Kasz216 said:


Er.  There is a thing called PS3's breaking down.

This is why the US Airforce said Sony removing Other OS was "Very disapointing" and they were aware of the lawsuit.

As for the "your choice"... ever hear of "Hobson's Choice."

Such a choice is actually illegal under consumer laws.

To quote the Other OS Lawsuit....

MR. PIZZIRUSSO: I am, Your Honor. It was a Hobson's choice. Either way, you lose functionality. You are going to lose features either way. And we said that's not a real choice.

Actually, I believe that would be called a Morton's Fork.  I don't claim to be a legal scholar, so what does the law say about those?



Kasz216 said:
thismeintiel said:
ssj12 said:
 


which unfortunately for Sony, they have a ton of people pissed at them. I know at least 50 people, not including me, that used OtherOS that has requested to be added to the suit. A sturdy shield isn't enough to fend off hundreds or people, let alone thousands. Think about all the medical scientists that probably put their names into this suit. Sony's shield will break under the weight of medical science.

And If im not mistaken, aren't people in Europe also trying to fight for OtherOS to be put back?

Why would medical scientists add themselves to the case?  I'll answer that.  They wouldn't.  If anyone was using the PS3 in a cluster, why would they upgrade?  Again, I'll answer, they wouldn't.  That's why Sony isn't getting sued by the US gov't for removing OtherOS, even when the Navy is using the PS3 in a cluster. 

The OtherOS case probably won't go anywhere.  You know why?  Sony didn't force you to remove the OtherOS in the first place.  They even put out announcements about what the new FW would do and even had you confirm it twice before it would even install.  In the end, YOU chose playing newer games and the PSN over PS3 Linux.  It was YOUR choice.


Er.  There is a thing called PS3's breaking down.

This is why the US Airforce said Sony removing Other OS was "Very disapointing" and they were aware of the lawsuit.

As for the "your choice"... ever hear of "Hobson's Choice."

Such a choice is actually illegal under consumer laws.

To quote the Other OS Lawsuit....

MR. PIZZIRUSSO: I am, Your Honor. It was a Hobson's choice. Either way, you lose functionality. You are going to lose features either way. And we said that's not a real choice.

 

You can't sell someone an apple and an orange.  Then tell them they have to give one back.  Then claim it's ok because "It was their choice."


Hence why Sony isn't even trying to argue that.  They are trying to argue that the defendents shouldn't of had the expectation to play games that came out after their warranties were up, because after your warranty is up you can't even expect your console will work.


Wow, that is their argument? seriously? That is basically saying "You bought the system but f-you if your system breaks after the warranty which we had to legally issue otherwise we would be hit by a federal fine."

They are going to lose so badly if that is their entire argument, and they can't pay everyone off like probably did with GeoHotz.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
steverhcp02 said:
kowenicki said:
Porcupine_I said:
kowenicki said:
Porcupine_I said:
kowenicki said:
Porcupine_I said:

so, if geohot won this....what exactly did he win?


He won not being sued for something that Sony maintain was illegal.

Sony won an injunction against one guy after spending millions gathering evidence in a rather aggresive way that has Anon all over their arses.

 

millions? and you are the guy who keeps asking why they setteled instead of seeing this to the end?


wasted millions as it turns out..

so, why should they have a reason to spend even more money if they get what they wanted here and now?

i am sure they never expected to get money from him.


Of course they didnt expect to get money from him, what are you talking about?   The legal system works from precedent...  go look it up.

I am very surprised they didnt want to get one... perhaps they knew they wouldnt get it?

over and out.

Its not that simple. Its fairly obvious that given how vocal Hotz and those in his corner have been, i mean the kid made a rap video and posted it on the internet, blogged about it had Anonymous making attmpts to hack and destroy all things Sony, that the "hacker community" was outraged, ready to fight, this was a violation of rights etc. on and on.....yet when push came to shove, when little George was facing the music he caved. End of story.

Youre talking about a huge multinational corperation that set out to show this hacking will not go unnoticed, they didnt set out to ruin this kids life or destroy him like you are leading on.

It seems  alot of people here get lost in the epeen pissing match of all or none from these forums. Like MUGEN ( I think) said they never intended to bury this kid, settling out of court is a "win" for Sony because it shows how quickly the vocal hacking community will crumble when push comes to shove, when they cant hide behind their forums and youtube videos, when they have to face grown ups in court, the legal system and be held accountable for their actions.

Its a "win" for Sony because now we have public record of a hacker who "did no wrong" in a lot of peoples eyes settling out of court because he knows damn well he did wrong, Sony wins because the point was made regardless of litigation precedent, now they dont come off as a huge corperation ruining a kids life over a matter which could be portrayed as "the man" hustling a kid. They got what they wanted, sans bad publicity, Hotz settling is admitted guilt in the court of public opinion......

Just like those aqful lawsuits of record companies sueing people who illegally download music for obscene amounts of money to "make a point" like you want....its not smart, it rubs people the wrong way and Sony gt what they wanted, they wanted him to back off, send a message they are paying attention and they were very succesful without looking like a trolling huge corperation coming down on some punk.

Its fairly obvious why this is a one sided settlement actually the more i type about it, some people just will not admit it because of the parties involved though, sadly.

AAAAMEN! :)



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

thismeintiel said:
Kasz216 said:


Er.  There is a thing called PS3's breaking down.

This is why the US Airforce said Sony removing Other OS was "Very disapointing" and they were aware of the lawsuit.

As for the "your choice"... ever hear of "Hobson's Choice."

Such a choice is actually illegal under consumer laws.

To quote the Other OS Lawsuit....

MR. PIZZIRUSSO: I am, Your Honor. It was a Hobson's choice. Either way, you lose functionality. You are going to lose features either way. And we said that's not a real choice.

Actually, I believe that would be called a Morton's Fork.  I don't claim to be a legal scholar, so what does the law say about those?

Illegal.  Hence the argueing above.

You can't force a customer to remove functionality from a product they've purchased.



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Grimes said:

I don't think for a second that Sony's only objective was to stop one guy from hacking.

They wanted to prevent set precedent where if you hack, you will be punished. The problem with this settlement is that nobody got punished, unless you consider not using Sony products a punishment. I guess that's pushishment or a blessing depending on how you look at it.

But this case will do nothing to stop people from hacking in the future, so IMO the case is a loss for Sony.


s far as i can tell he is still free to use sony products. I dont know where people are getting the he is banned from them. He is boycotting them on choice  I believe. He barred from hacking them and posting on the net/distributing hacks.

Sony did not win

Geohot did not win

Consumers did not win

Nothing has changed really. Until the next case comes up it may or may not be legal to hack your own console.



thranx said:

Sony did not win

Geohot did not win

Consumers did not win

Nothing has changed really. Until the next case comes up it may or may not be legal to hack your own console.


Plus, the laywers pocketed the money.



Galaki said:
thranx said:

Sony did not win

Geohot did not win

Consumers did not win

Nothing has changed really. Until the next case comes up it may or may not be legal to hack your own console.


Plus, the laywers pocketed the money.

Of course. Geohot is probably replacing his ps3s with 360s and wiis right now with the donation money:)



padib said:

 

@kasz  hey, do you have a link to the OtherOS case?


A few articles on it, that's it

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110311112544990

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110310172538157

 

Also one on the settlment

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110411173644425



padib said:

 

@kasz  hey, do you have a link to the OtherOS case?

 


I believe this is the most recent court docket since the cases have been merged. this is for the united states. I believe there is another case in europe also.

http://docfiles.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2010cv01811/226894/76/0.pdf