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Hephaestos said:
dsister said:

Well then. 

1. I think they are necessary. With a day 1 lynch you gain a lot of info going into day 2 and you also give a little support for night actions. As you might be a little suspicious of someone or something

2. Liars get in the way. If you catch a townie that is lying than you are going to spend a lot of time going over what they lied about and why. So with a combination of that and number one I can easily say Vote: Hephaestos

3. Hate 'em. on vgc it is easy to tell if someone is lurking or not though. If they are spamming other threads then they are obviously not wanting to post 

Then you just lied. In 1 you say you get information from day 1 lynch. As is should your vote be followed there would be no information and thus your vote cannot be a combination of 1 and 2. Moreover where your process fails is that your vote logic assumes that i'm a townie prone to lie and thus your willingness to vote for me... a townie. This is evident as you believe only mafia should lie, but then if I were mafia, why would I answer positively to that question? you clearly did not presume I was mafia as you speciffically said that your vote was motivated by your answer 2, wich was all about townie.

By asking "do you lie as a townie" you knew that'll get some honnest answers and that you'll be able to use these as your day 1 targets. You followed last game and saw that some townies lied (notably proff). Moreover, you're using your answer to question 1 as a justification to launch vendettas on day one (your first approach being "liars", but it'll serve you also for later vendettas... such as lurkers, your question 3.

Basically your 3 questions is this

1) I will push for lynch day one

2) please answer yes so that I can vote for you.

3) if that fails i'll push a lurker lynch to be sure to get my blood fix

 

Lastly, you gave yourself up. A true townie would ask "what do you think of lynching liars" ,such as your question 3 , a mafia on the other hand does try to find reasons to legitimately lynch townies.

I liked that dsister's actively trying to get the game going with these questions. My gut tells me to attack those who give the wrong or suspicious answers but my experience tells me it's a bit too early to attack players for them already.

To answer the post btw:

1-  I always was pro lynching lurkers. However, my stubborn mind has come to the conclusion that lurkers can just as easily be pro-town players opposed to the scum I always leaned towards them being. So I don't think I'll push for first day 1 lynches like I used to. Nonetheless, the idea of scum striking first blood always boils my own.

2- Lynch all liars. So for fuck sake people. If you don't have a good ... GOOD reason for lying as pro-town, don't lie at all. Little white lies that you can prove were false for whatever reason can sometimes be negligible. However scum will use that to their advantage, that is why you're still at risk of getting lynch.

3- I already mentioned lurkers but ... I just hope they're never pro-town. I've witnessed too many townies fall by the "lurking card" that it has left me quite paranoid.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

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@Final-fan
In his defense there are times to lie. He just chose a shitty example. If someone asks if you are a cop/doctor the answer is always no. As such lying is easily defnsible in extreme circumstances.

@prof
The situations are different. I typed it up twice and had it eatten by my internet. I will elaborate more later, but it revolves around him defending both.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Hephaestos said:
radishhead said:
Hephaestos said:
radishhead said:

Are you one of the "siblings"? I'm sure that's the only way that you can have information before night 1

i'll give you a chance.

Did what you say sounds as you wanted to say it?

I said night 1, because the investigators (the only other players that get "information") investigate during the night. I'm sure that it's only the "siblings" (I got the name of that role correct, right?) that have information (bar the Mafia), because it tells them the info in their role PM.

So, I'm fairly certain that what I said can't be misinterpreted :p

actually reading your answer I realized that linkz had posted a link to the roles on mafiascum.... but now I can't find it.

My point was that you seemed certain there were siblings... but that is moot as linkz posted a link of roles and one could infer that despite his disclamer of not all roles being in the game, you could have come to the conclusion that siblings were.

in short, moot point, sorry I brought it up.

But maybe he is certain, if he is in fact a sibling, whether he admits to it or not.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

TruckOSaurus said:
theprof00 said:

dsis

What was so important about gauging the town's thoughts on those questions?

[snip]

I also think that going after someone because they admit to "lying" is very meta, as is your discussion of the game structure. That leads me to believe that you are trying to create discussion where none really exists (1); Rationalizing your vote (despite your carefree attitude about voting), and typically coming off as "safe" and "supported".

Also, I agree wit Heph. Lying is important for townies. I think townies should tell the truth as much as possible, but there are always good reasons to lie. I don't think liars should always be lynched as the meta rule states, but people who are caught in a lie should be.

There's a difference between lying and being caught in a lie (2).


1) What's wrong with creating discussion? Any Day One discussion has to be "artificially created" since there's nothing to go on at that point.

2) There's goes my hopes for gambit-free prof.


I agree with prof, I initially thought good of dsister's discussion post until he prematurely attacked heph.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

Hephaestos said:


Actually i'm glad you're bringing it up... since he's voting for me on admitting that I do lie. Cause with that quote he either:

1) lied

2) doesn't know which side he's on and thus a real liability.

 

And to continue the questions:

What do you guys think of players who don't read their role PM?


I will lynch them without thought or remorse. It can hang the game at night because the person was too lazy to read a paragraph of text. I can think of absolutely no reason to avoid reading it. No scenario can ever be conceived where that is reasonable.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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theprof00 said:


1) What's wrong with creating discussion? Any Day One discussion has to be "artificially created" since there's nothing to go on at that point.

2) There's goes my hopes for gambit-free prof.

 

 

1) Well, there is nothing wrong with creating discussion. However, this isn't really a strong path for discussion. These questions, "how do you feel about day 1 lynching", and "is it ok for a townie to lie", these are good questions to ask when there is nothing else to talk about to make it appear that one is contributing. These are "safe" questions. 

 

Not to mention that those three question are all day 1 discussion topics from previous games...

Wasn't it Trucks who brought up the discussion of townies lying in a previous game? And how many times are we to discuss day 1 lynches or lurkers on the first day?

The more I think about dsister's post the more irked I become.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

hatmoza said:


I agree with prof, I initially thought good of dsister's discussion post until he prematurely attacked heph.


dsister does this every game though. Maybe not the exact same questions, but the method of fostering discussion. Lynch all liars is also an extremely common ideology. I really think you are both reading way too much into this.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Anyways I'm going to do my first FoS to dsister right now, he'd better have a good reason for what he's been doing...



19:44:34 Skeezer METAL GEAR ONLINE
19:44:36 Skeezer FAILURE
19:44:51 ABadClown You're right!
19:44:55 ABadClown Hur hur hur
19:45:01 Skeezer i meant
19:45:04 Skeezer YOU ARE A FAILKURE
19:45:08 Skeezer FAILURE*
hatmoza said:
theprof00 said:


1) What's wrong with creating discussion? Any Day One discussion has to be "artificially created" since there's nothing to go on at that point.

2) There's goes my hopes for gambit-free prof.

 

 

1) Well, there is nothing wrong with creating discussion. However, this isn't really a strong path for discussion. These questions, "how do you feel about day 1 lynching", and "is it ok for a townie to lie", these are good questions to ask when there is nothing else to talk about to make it appear that one is contributing. These are "safe" questions. 

 

Not to mention that those three question are all day 1 discussion topics from previous games...

Wasn't it Trucks who brought up the discussion of townies lying in a previous game? And how many times are we to discuss day 1 lynches or lurkers on the first day?

The more I think about dsister's post the more irked I become.

Yes truck brought that up in the sailor moon game

and he was Mafia!!



-

theprof00 said:

dsis

What was so important about gauging the town's thoughts on those questions?

It really looked like you were looking for support in voting Heph.

Since I haven't played with everyone here, or the rest of you guys for awhile I decided to throw it in for a refresher, as well as to liven up the conversation 

And as I said in a previous post the first question is important because it would show me if I could avoid the same old tired arguement of whether or not we need a day 1 lynch.

And what do you mean I was looking for support in voting Heph? You mean to give a reason? Yeah, people seem to not like it when I vote randomly on this site, or do you mean I was looking for other people to vote him too? If so, that makes no sense as I didn't know he lies nor did I ask those questions just to give me a reason to vote him. I had no intention of voting for him till after he admitted he is fine with lying to the town 

You also said that 20% rule was more popular on this forum. It really isn't. We almost always go for 1-3 ratio. 25%
"20% Or one in five "- that is a ridiculous setup. One free night and day for every mafia playing. With 5 mafia, that would be 4 days of free mislynching when every day those lynches and night kills bring the town closer and closer to finding a mafia. Also, with so many townies, that would really secure a cop getting many investigations.

Strange, but ok O.o 

The last few times that I remember playing here I could sware I remember 20%, but as Trucks can tell you I have a horrible memory

I don't make the rules. I just play the game... And the 20% is the one I have played with the most, be it here, or mafiascum(<-Especially mafiascum)

You also fail to factor in third parties. A serial killer would make the game much shorter 

I also think that going after someone because they admit to "lying" is very meta, as is your discussion of the game structure. That leads me to believe that you are trying to create discussion where none really exists; Rationalizing your vote (despite your carefree attitude about voting), and typically coming off as "safe" and "supported".

And discussion is a bad thing? I don't see how lying can be a good thing at all. It just gets in the way. Yes,  you might get lucky and no one might notice it, but if someone does you create a lot of confusion and wasted effort that can be used to hunt scum. 

I've played here before, and I know what happens if I vote for someone with no reason. It doesn't end well. So yes, I did give some reason for my vote. If someone else comes up that needs pressure or someone that I genuinly believe is scum appears then I will change my vote to them.

Also discussion is the single most important part to scum hunting. For some reason not all scum are like Mario and tell you in their first post of the game(-_-).


I don't think a mafia should be coming off with so much attention, but I'd be willing to vote you rather than Heph.

What's stopping you? Throw that vote down on me



Sig thanks to Saber! :D