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Forums - General - Islam is not bad, too many of you are ignorant of history.

superchunk said:

I can't believe so many of you continue to resort to the horrible and historically inaccurate idea that "only Muslims and Islam act like this... terrorism... suicide... etc"..

Have the world forgotten about the Dark Ages? Renaissance? Inquisition? Numerous accounts of Christianity based wars in Europe? Entire religious raping of Africa and the Americas? Northern Ireland? Abortion clinic bombings? Kosovo/Bosnia? I can easily go on with more modern day examples, but its pointless.

I mean c'mon man. Christianity has gone through the EXACT same transformation. Christianity killed millions of people as it tried to save the 'infidels' and force them, with deadly and brutal attacks or death, to convert to their version of Christianity.

Problem is you don't know Islamic history and the Qur'an. These circumstances have only existed for about 150 years. (btw, Dark Ages lasted hundreds) Suicide bombing and terrorism from Arabs/Muslims has been around for far less. In fact Jews in pre-Israel performed these actions (not suicide bombing) before any Arab/Muslim. As did the Christians in Ireland.

What we need, and I greatly hope we are witnessing today as a beginning, is an Islamic Renaissance. However, don't be naive. It won't change overnight and it will be bloody wars as the old extremists fight to maintain control. Just as the Catholic church did oh so long ago.

i agree with you on this. change is never easy, but it will be worth it if it changes for the better. i really hope the Islamic countries now look at iran and decide that is not what they want to happen after their revolution.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Joelcool7 said:

I realize my post makes it out that Islam is evil. It is not I have Muslim friends and have talked with various Imam's about our faiths. However to argue that Christians were just as bad or worse because of the crusades is really funny to me. During the dark ages all the countries acted like this. Infact what about genghis khan or other leaders in the past.

As I said in my post the Crusades were not unprovoked genocide, it wasn't Christians trying to convert Muslims. It was Christians wanting to visit and worship in Jerusalem. It was about Christian countries wanting to stop the Islamic armies from invading other Christian cities. It was to retake the country and city that the Muslims took from them.

It wasn't all self defence but imagine today that Russia or who ever conquered Washington DC. The invaders force all the americans out of the city and populate it with their own people. Then the American states join together and retake the city in a bloody battle during which they kill the majority of the inhabitants.

Now would America be in the wrong? Sure they didn't have to kill everyone but it was their city. Were the natives wrong to try and retake America from the european's? The Crusades were Christians retaking what was rightfully theirs.

The Crusades were pretty much about Christians trying to convert Muslims. Actually, the Crusades is also the period where you can trace the first anti-semitic sentiments, and the beginning of the institutionalised persecution of Jews. The Crusadesers also attacked pagans and heretics in Europe.

You also shouldn't forget that the Christians that fought in the Crusades invaded Constantinopole (a city ruled by other Christians), pillaged it, and killed many of it's inhabitants. None of the terriroties that the Christians were trying to take from the Muslims belonged to them (the Christians who fought were mainly Catholics and were from Western Europe, so they really had no way of claiming that they had any right to the  Holy Land which had been part of the Byzantine Empire). Sorry, the Christians were definately the bad guys in the Crusades.



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                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

I am going to quote my mum on this as we often have discussions regarding religion, she's a Christian I am an atheist so she keeps telling me "When you're older, you'll realize that you were being an idiot and become a Christian, everyone in our family went through that". Anyhow in regards to Islam, she is very opiniated. Classing all of the Muslims as terrorists is a common misconception of an ignorant peasant, however they do have an increasing amount of extremists that do all in their power to wreck havoc onto the world, I have lived in a Muslim centric country for a GOOD part of my childhood, hell I've even experienced a bomb blast, not directly but it was not too far away. I got to say in terms of equality WITHIN Islam, it's great, everyone are treated as equal in Islam no matter if you're Asian/Black/White, but if you're Christian it's shunned upon, I don't think that they're at the stage yet where they accept other religions as having some grain of truth, only the modern ones do, which are far and between. I agree with the OP, I think that the Muslims are experiencing their "Islamic Renaissance", it's just that they're frowned upon by the now developed Christians who are being hypocrites in this case as they've been through exactly the same period(Crusades and whatnot).

Bottom line is, I'd like to make an observation, most, if not all of the developed countries were at some point Church dominated, so Christianity as at the centre of their values whereas most of the countries where Islam is rampant are currently lagging behind and can be classed as "third world countries" with either Dictator at the brink or some sort of oppresionist rule. If that doesn't tell you something in regards to impact that a religion makes, I don't know what does.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

NotStan said:

I am going to quote my mum on this as we often have discussions regarding religion, she's a Christian I am an atheist so she keeps telling me "When you're older, you'll realize that you were being an idiot and become a Christian, everyone in our family went through that". Anyhow in regards to Islam, she is very opiniated. Classing all of the Muslims as terrorists is a common misconception of an ignorant peasant, however they do have an increasing amount of extremists that do all in their power to wreck havoc onto the world, I have lived in a Muslim centric country for a GOOD part of my childhood, hell I've even experienced a bomb blast, not directly but it was not too far away. I got to say in terms of equality WITHIN Islam, it's great, everyone are treated as equal in Islam no matter if you're Asian/Black/White, but if you're Christian it's shunned upon, I don't think that they're at the stage yet where they accept other religions as having some grain of truth, only the modern ones do, which are far and between. I agree with the OP, I think that the Muslims are experiencing their "Islamic Renaissance", it's just that they're frowned upon by the now developed Christians who are being hypocrites in this case as they've been through exactly the same period(Crusades and whatnot).

Bottom line is, I'd like to make an observation, most, if not all of the developed countries were at some point Church dominated, so Christianity as at the centre of their values whereas most of the countries where Islam is rampant are currently lagging behind and can be classed as "third world countries" with either Dictator at the brink or some sort of oppresionist rule. If that doesn't tell you something in regards to impact that a religion makes, I don't know what does.

OR, much more likely, when you're older you'll become an idiot, and the convert to Christianity (sorry, can't help myself, whenever I hear Christians say something like that I get angry).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

NotStan said:

I am going to quote my mum on this as we often have discussions regarding religion, she's a Christian I am an atheist so she keeps telling me "When you're older, you'll realize that you were being an idiot and become a Christian, everyone in our family went through that". Anyhow in regards to Islam, she is very opiniated. Classing all of the Muslims as terrorists is a common misconception of an ignorant peasant, however they do have an increasing amount of extremists that do all in their power to wreck havoc onto the world, I have lived in a Muslim centric country for a GOOD part of my childhood, hell I've even experienced a bomb blast, not directly but it was not too far away. I got to say in terms of equality WITHIN Islam, it's great, everyone are treated as equal in Islam no matter if you're Asian/Black/White, but if you're Christian it's shunned upon, I don't think that they're at the stage yet where they accept other religions as having some grain of truth, only the modern ones do, which are far and between. I agree with the OP, I think that the Muslims are experiencing their "Islamic Renaissance", it's just that they're frowned upon by the now developed Christians who are being hypocrites in this case as they've been through exactly the same period(Crusades and whatnot).

Bottom line is, I'd like to make an observation, most, if not all of the developed countries were at some point Church dominated, so Christianity as at the centre of their values whereas most of the countries where Islam is rampant are currently lagging behind and can be classed as "third world countries" with either Dictator at the brink or some sort of oppresionist rule. If that doesn't tell you something in regards to impact that a religion makes, I don't know what does.

See, here's another problem. Those who shun others due to religion are just going against our teachings. Us Muslims are taught to respect other religions, it's in the Qur'an: (Allah does not forbid you that you show kindness and deal justly with those who did not fight you in your religion and did not drive you out from your homes…)(Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)



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huaxiong90 said:
NotStan said:

I am going to quote my mum on this as we often have discussions regarding religion, she's a Christian I am an atheist so she keeps telling me "When you're older, you'll realize that you were being an idiot and become a Christian, everyone in our family went through that". Anyhow in regards to Islam, she is very opiniated. Classing all of the Muslims as terrorists is a common misconception of an ignorant peasant, however they do have an increasing amount of extremists that do all in their power to wreck havoc onto the world, I have lived in a Muslim centric country for a GOOD part of my childhood, hell I've even experienced a bomb blast, not directly but it was not too far away. I got to say in terms of equality WITHIN Islam, it's great, everyone are treated as equal in Islam no matter if you're Asian/Black/White, but if you're Christian it's shunned upon, I don't think that they're at the stage yet where they accept other religions as having some grain of truth, only the modern ones do, which are far and between. I agree with the OP, I think that the Muslims are experiencing their "Islamic Renaissance", it's just that they're frowned upon by the now developed Christians who are being hypocrites in this case as they've been through exactly the same period(Crusades and whatnot).

Bottom line is, I'd like to make an observation, most, if not all of the developed countries were at some point Church dominated, so Christianity as at the centre of their values whereas most of the countries where Islam is rampant are currently lagging behind and can be classed as "third world countries" with either Dictator at the brink or some sort of oppresionist rule. If that doesn't tell you something in regards to impact that a religion makes, I don't know what does.

See, here's another problem. Those who shun others due to religion are just going against our teachings. Us Muslims are taught to respect other religions, it's in the Qur'an: (Allah does not forbid you that you show kindness and deal justly with those who did not fight you in your religion and did not drive you out from your homes…)(Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)

I know I did Islam in some detail during the Religious Studies and it is rather weird that some decide to interpret Qur'an in different ways, same with Bible and any holy book, depends which way you interpret it, some decide to do so in a negative way and make a bad image for religion as a whole. In general I am repulsed by religion, I do like the teaching of equality, fairness and peace but the fanatics on each front just push me away from the religions that are centered around God.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

NotStan said:
huaxiong90 said:
NotStan said:

I am going to quote my mum on this as we often have discussions regarding religion, she's a Christian I am an atheist so she keeps telling me "When you're older, you'll realize that you were being an idiot and become a Christian, everyone in our family went through that". Anyhow in regards to Islam, she is very opiniated. Classing all of the Muslims as terrorists is a common misconception of an ignorant peasant, however they do have an increasing amount of extremists that do all in their power to wreck havoc onto the world, I have lived in a Muslim centric country for a GOOD part of my childhood, hell I've even experienced a bomb blast, not directly but it was not too far away. I got to say in terms of equality WITHIN Islam, it's great, everyone are treated as equal in Islam no matter if you're Asian/Black/White, but if you're Christian it's shunned upon, I don't think that they're at the stage yet where they accept other religions as having some grain of truth, only the modern ones do, which are far and between. I agree with the OP, I think that the Muslims are experiencing their "Islamic Renaissance", it's just that they're frowned upon by the now developed Christians who are being hypocrites in this case as they've been through exactly the same period(Crusades and whatnot).

Bottom line is, I'd like to make an observation, most, if not all of the developed countries were at some point Church dominated, so Christianity as at the centre of their values whereas most of the countries where Islam is rampant are currently lagging behind and can be classed as "third world countries" with either Dictator at the brink or some sort of oppresionist rule. If that doesn't tell you something in regards to impact that a religion makes, I don't know what does.

See, here's another problem. Those who shun others due to religion are just going against our teachings. Us Muslims are taught to respect other religions, it's in the Qur'an: (Allah does not forbid you that you show kindness and deal justly with those who did not fight you in your religion and did not drive you out from your homes…)(Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)

I know I did Islam in some detail during the Religious Studies and it is rather weird that some decide to interpret Qur'an in different ways, same with Bible and any holy book, depends which way you interpret it, some decide to do so in a negative way and make a bad image for religion as a whole. In general I am repulsed by religion, I do like the teaching of equality, fairness and peace but the fanatics on each front just push me away from the religions that are centered around God.

I hear you, but you should know, people these days, are ignorant. They just listen to what others tell them, they can't do their own research. In other words, they're only [insert name of religion] because their parents are, and whatever they hear around them is taken as the truth.

I, as a proud muslim, respect any other person regardless of religion (or if he's an athiest) as long as they respect me. I have my faith, they have theirs (or nothing at all).



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Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Islam is just as bad as Christianity, Judaism, Sciontology, Jedism and The Pink Invisible  Spaghetti Monster, all of them are just as bad as each other and none of them have any sort of positive impact on the world in general. Pointing to one of them, while ignoring the others and their faults is just silly.



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huaxiong90 said:
[..]

I hear you, but you should know, people these days, are ignorant. They just listen to what others tell them, they can't do their own research. In other words, they're only [insert name of religion] because their parents are, and whatever they hear around them is taken as the truth.

I, as a proud muslim, respect any other person regardless of religion (or if he's an athiest) as long as they respect me. I have my faith, they have theirs (or nothing at all).

Yeah true, I respect religious people that keep their opinions and abide by the laws of the religions and not try to prejudice me for not believing in their religion or trying to convert me(Yes the bloody Jehovas Witnesses) I particularly dislike those who would go as far as to tell me that I am going to hell just because I have different believes! You're a modern Muslim I see, that's good to hear!



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

The problem isn't Islam itself, as Islam isn't an evil religion in any sort or way. I'm no expert on the history of Islam, but I'd guess that while the world of Chistianity evolved and stepped out of darkness, Islam saw reformations that took it in the opposite direction, away from the religion that once embraced science and actually respected people of other faiths.

As with the Bible, the Koran is also interpretted in different ways. Many muslim countries hae also been influenced by the pre-islamic culture. As an example, (afaik) circumcision of girls isn't part of Islam.

I agree with the idea of an Islamic Renaissance, and I believe that the revolution in North Africa and the Middle East is a start. That's why we should support those people more.