dialectic? All I see between us is a debate. I am willing to admit when I've been wrong or have an ill concieved notion. However, even in items that seem blatantly apparent, such us the use of "unbeliever" in the Qur'ans war verses you, and others, seem unable to view them in their context.

Honestly SuperChunk your not winning your debate. Even if you can argue that the Qur'an is 100% peaceful you still say that theHadiths are not. You also say that the Hadiths dictate Islamic policies in all major Muslim countries as well as influence western Islam. Fact is these Hadiths are horrible texts in many cases and in modern Islam are accepted as Holy and even in some cases being added to the Qur'an.

Now what I would love to see, because I believe you are very passionate about your faith and the Qur'an as apparently peaceful. I would like to see you go on some Al-Qaida forum or other extremist forum and spread the light. I hate to use the term missionary as you'd be talking to fellow Muslim's but you claim to be so enlightened.

Infact even here you don't seem to have the support of the muslims of this board. I have not seen to many here backing you up and I do know your not the only one on VGChartz.

I noticed something big, at the beginning of my question as to how Muslims could believe the Bible is a Holy text but not follow its teachings. You said it was a Holy text and that the teachings of Jesus applied, however you said Jesus did not rise again after three days nor was he the son of God and their is no such thing as the trinity. Then I posted a few verses which you managed to explain using different interpretations. However when I qouted more verses you claimed that the Bible had been tainted by men.

Now if the Bible indeed has been tainted by men, how could it still be a Holy book? And if the Bible was tainted how about the Qur'an? You claim the Roman's influenced the translations of the Bible and made up the Trinity etc...etc... However I know that the origional Manuscripts still exist and know people who recently examined and helped translate them. Are you saying the romans took the origional manuscripts and altered them?

I'm not about to debate Christianity verses Islam and say your evil for believing different then me. Just pointing out your thinking is flawed. I personally know that the origional manuscripts still exist today. Does the origional Qur'an exist today? Is it still being studied and re-translated from time to time to ensure it remains accurate? From a quick google search it doesn't appear the origional manuscripts in which the Quran were based on exist today. Am I wrong? I could be as I just googled it quickly.

Anyways you didn't call us ignorant if we believe Islam is violent. But the Hadiths which you claim are core to modern Islam is very much so. So its not us being ignorant, even if the Qur'an itself is peaceful (Which is very debatable) the Hadiths certainly are not. Many of them I would consider evil, same with the Sharia as seen in Afghanistan and most of the other muslim countries. Things like women must be covered at all times, a Muslim cannot convert to Christianity or any other faith or he needs to be executed.

Islam in its modern day context is very violent and I would say border line evil. The small minority like yourself do not represent Islam as a whole and neither does the Qur'an. I notice your quick to say the Christian's were the same way. You mention the Crusades, but guess what your right Christianity was violent but it had nothing to do with the Bible. In the same way Islam is very violent and evil in its current form. Regardless of whether the Qur'an promotes that view or not.

I myself would be stoned to death or imprisoned for proselytizing if I went to almost any Muslim majority country. Any Muslim who converted would face similiar persecution. At the hands of who? Muslims!

Honestly SuperChunk your not winning your debate. Even if you can argue that the Qur'an is 100% peaceful you still say that theHadiths are not. You also say that the Hadiths dictate Islamic policies in all major Muslim countries as well as influence western Islam. Fact is these Hadiths are horrible texts in many cases and in modern Islam are accepted as Holy and even in some cases being added to the Qur'an.

Now what I would love to see, because I believe you are very passionate about your faith and the Qur'an as apparently peaceful. I would like to see you go on some Al-Qaida forum or other extremist forum and spread the light. I hate to use the term missionary as you'd be talking to fellow Muslim's but you claim to be so enlightened.

Infact even here you don't seem to have the support of the muslims of this board. I have not seen to many here backing you up and I do know your not the only one on VGChartz.

I noticed something big, at the beginning of my question as to how Muslims could believe the Bible is a Holy text but not follow its teachings. You said it was a Holy text and that the teachings of Jesus applied, however you said Jesus did not rise again after three days nor was he the son of God and their is no such thing as the trinity. Then I posted a few verses which you managed to explain using different interpretations. However when I qouted more verses you claimed that the Bible had been tainted by men.

Now if the Bible indeed has been tainted by men, how could it still be a Holy book? And if the Bible was tainted how about the Qur'an? You claim the Roman's influenced the translations of the Bible and made up the Trinity etc...etc... However I know that the origional Manuscripts still exist and know people who recently examined and helped translate them. Are you saying the romans took the origional manuscripts and altered them?

I'm not about to debate Christianity verses Islam and say your evil for believing different then me. Just pointing out your thinking is flawed. I personally know that the origional manuscripts still exist today. Does the origional Qur'an exist today? Is it still being studied and re-translated from time to time to ensure it remains accurate? From a quick google search it doesn't appear the origional manuscripts in which the Quran were based on exist today. Am I wrong? I could be as I just googled it quickly.

Anyways you didn't call us ignorant if we believe Islam is violent. But the Hadiths which you claim are core to modern Islam is very much so. So its not us being ignorant, even if the Qur'an itself is peaceful (Which is very debatable) the Hadiths certainly are not. Many of them I would consider evil, same with the Sharia as seen in Afghanistan and most of the other muslim countries. Things like women must be covered at all times, a Muslim cannot convert to Christianity or any other faith or he needs to be executed.

Islam in its modern day context is very violent and I would say border line evil. The small minority like yourself do not represent Islam as a whole and neither does the Qur'an. I notice your quick to say the Christian's were the same way. You mention the Crusades, but guess what your right Christianity was violent but it had nothing to do with the Bible. In the same way Islam is very violent and evil in its current form. Regardless of whether the Qur'an promotes that view or not.

I myself would be stoned to death or imprisoned for proselytizing if I went to almost any Muslim majority country. Any Muslim who converted would face similiar persecution. At the hands of who? Muslims!

The funny thing about it is, that the Holy Bible has been getting faked by humans according to the quran, but in the first place was given to jesus from allah, now theres a quote (dont know where exact, but if you google it, you should find it) that said, that the word of god/allah can NOT be faked.

Fun Fact 2:

In the quran it says that Jesus has been risen to allah and now lives in peace in heaven BUT in another verse it says that everyone who gets worshipped BUT allah will burn in hell together with them who worship him.

And i find it funny how muslims always say "ahh the bible was changed blabla" while there are findings of old bibles that show the exact opposite, and did you know that the quran was first written down almost 300 years AFTER muhammad was dead? (al-tabari an author of hadtihs had also said, that muhammad added things to the quran)

and i want to show you one of the most interesting hadiths out there (Ibn Ishaq: 69)

A voice said to me: "You are pregnant with the Lord of this nation and if he is born, then tell  this: I give him to the care of the one, the evil and the envious, 'and then name him Muhammad.." 'She saw a light coming out of herself, through which she could see the castles in Syria. " (translated with google translator)

doesnt really sound like God, huh? for me as a christian, the "one the evil and the envious" sounds more like the devil

and why the f**k is there a snake in the kaaba before it was rebuilt?

Regardless of what you believe or those of like mind believe doesn't change the fact that Islam is responsible for the deaths of 3000 Americans, that it is the Republic of America's duty and the people of America's duty to know the enemy and go for it's throat. The conflicting part is that the enemy is two folds, one being the rabid socialists who see Islam as their father land and rest their hopes of a crippled democratic free-market in the bosoms of Islam and the Islamic fundamentalists who see polarizing the west as a way to unite Arabia.

This does reveal that your hypocrisy knows no bounds, that you are willing to say that today’s Islamic countries recognize the Hadiths and not the Qur'an for their policy making and that that needs to be put to and end because the Qur'an is by your allegation peaceful. Then when I define followers of religion as being those who adhere  and practice their holy texts injunctions with full faith in it's words virtue is the prerequisite to earn the title Muslim or Christian or Jewish you say such a statement does not agree with you. There's no reason to debate with a hypocrite and if you are not one then at the least a relativist, though all the events show hypocrisy alone being in play here.

And your right dialectic was too abstract a word, something like your argument would be best served as satire after reverse analysis for a relative irony.

I should add, my point from the very get go was how flawed the parts of your message were, and that the issue has nothing to do with your prose but rather your content or to be fair your subject. I didn’t expect to do that and reveal the flaws of the messenger. (Hope you at least get the joke there.)

Honestly SuperChunk your not winning your debate. Even if you can argue that the Qur'an is 100% peaceful you still say that theHadiths are not. You also say that the Hadiths dictate Islamic policies in all major Muslim countries as well as influence western Islam. Fact is these Hadiths are horrible texts in many cases and in modern Islam are accepted as Holy and even in some cases being added to the Qur'an.

Now what I would love to see, because I believe you are very passionate about your faith and the Qur'an as apparently peaceful. I would like to see you go on some Al-Qaida forum or other extremist forum and spread the light. I hate to use the term missionary as you'd be talking to fellow Muslim's but you claim to be so enlightened.

Infact even here you don't seem to have the support of the muslims of this board. I have not seen to many here backing you up and I do know your not the only one on VGChartz.

I noticed something big, at the beginning of my question as to how Muslims could believe the Bible is a Holy text but not follow its teachings. You said it was a Holy text and that the teachings of Jesus applied, however you said Jesus did not rise again after three days nor was he the son of God and their is no such thing as the trinity. Then I posted a few verses which you managed to explain using different interpretations. However when I qouted more verses you claimed that the Bible had been tainted by men.

Now if the Bible indeed has been tainted by men, how could it still be a Holy book? And if the Bible was tainted how about the Qur'an? You claim the Roman's influenced the translations of the Bible and made up the Trinity etc...etc... However I know that the origional Manuscripts still exist and know people who recently examined and helped translate them. Are you saying the romans took the origional manuscripts and altered them?

I'm not about to debate Christianity verses Islam and say your evil for believing different then me. Just pointing out your thinking is flawed. I personally know that the origional manuscripts still exist today. Does the origional Qur'an exist today? Is it still being studied and re-translated from time to time to ensure it remains accurate? From a quick google search it doesn't appear the origional manuscripts in which the Quran were based on exist today. Am I wrong? I could be as I just googled it quickly.

Anyways you didn't call us ignorant if we believe Islam is violent. But the Hadiths which you claim are core to modern Islam is very much so. So its not us being ignorant, even if the Qur'an itself is peaceful (Which is very debatable) the Hadiths certainly are not. Many of them I would consider evil, same with the Sharia as seen in Afghanistan and most of the other muslim countries. Things like women must be covered at all times, a Muslim cannot convert to Christianity or any other faith or he needs to be executed.

Islam in its modern day context is very violent and I would say border line evil. The small minority like yourself do not represent Islam as a whole and neither does the Qur'an. I notice your quick to say the Christian's were the same way. You mention the Crusades, but guess what your right Christianity was violent but it had nothing to do with the Bible. In the same way Islam is very violent and evil in its current form. Regardless of whether the Qur'an promotes that view or not.

I myself would be stoned to death or imprisoned for proselytizing if I went to almost any Muslim majority country. Any Muslim who converted would face similiar persecution. At the hands of who? Muslims!

The funny thing about it is, that the Holy Bible has been getting faked by humans according to the quran, but in the first place was given to jesus from allah, now theres a quote (dont know where exact, but if you google it, you should find it) that said, that the word of god/allah can NOT be faked.

Fun Fact 2:

In the quran it says that Jesus has been risen to allah and now lives in peace in heaven BUT in another verse it says that everyone who gets worshipped BUT allah will burn in hell together with them who worship him.

And i find it funny how muslims always say "ahh the bible was changed blabla" while there are findings of old bibles that show the exact opposite, and did you know that the quran was first written down almost 300 years AFTER muhammad was dead? (al-tabari an author of hadtihs had also said, that muhammad added things to the quran)

and i want to show you one of the most interesting hadiths out there (Ibn Ishaq: 69)

A voice said to me: "You are pregnant with the Lord of this nation and if he is born, then tell  this: I give him to the care of the one, the evil and the envious, 'and then name him Muhammad.." 'She saw a light coming out of herself, through which they could see the castles in Syria. " (translated with google translator)

doesnt really sound like God, huh? for me as a christian, the "one the evil and the envious" sounds more like the devil

and why the f**k is there a snake in the kaaba before it was rebuilt?