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Forums - Sony - Geohot Pleading with Community for Donations in PS3 Jailbreak Case

Scoobes said:
fordy said:
Scoobes said:
fordy said:
Esquoret said:

 The creators have the say, and the least we can do is respect that. So if anyone doesn't like the PS3 and its values, you're better off donating/supporting a company that makes products to your liking and values, rather than giving to a dead end cause as is the case with Geohot.

And what happens in an endgame case when ALL companies that offer products force you to play by their rules? This is what the current case will decide.

It really won't. People are making a mountain out of a mole-hill. The laws are already in place, this ruling isn't going to change a thing.

Future cases are ruled based on the outcomes of previous cases. Why do you think that lawyers refer to previous case outcomes within the trial? The ruling might not always go that way, but it would give it a tremendous boost towards the side of corporate control.

That's paranoia because from what I can tell, the laws are already on Sony's side in this case. This ruling isn't going to change that. Is it so hard to see that what he did is wrong? You're allowed to modify your consoles, you're allowed to hack your consoles, hell, you're allowed to convert into a mini aeroplane if you wanted! What you can't do is publicly compromise security.

I'm actually all for homebrew as they do some amazing stuff, but he's really acted stupidly here.

You'd be wrong.  It's perfectly legal to jailbreak OS software to run locked out applications.



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Tsudai said:
thismeintiel said:

Damn fine first post by Tsudai.  Welcome to the boards.  Unfortunately, some will ignore it and continue to scream about "consumer rights."  Of course, they will completely ignore company rights.  Without company rights, they would not be able to protect their interests/products, and many would go out of business.  With that comes the decline of tech advancement (there goes with all the cool little gadgets we are priviledged to have) and millions would lose their jobs, followed by the world economy turning to crap.  And yes, there has to be a balance between both sets of rights.  But we already have a very powerful tool to ensure our consumer rights, our wallet.  We are not forced to buy anything we don't want and corporations don't automatically get money from our wages.    This is something many seem to forget here.

Thanks for the welcome. I've been following this since the beginning, but didn't post anything cause internet back and forth doesn't amount to much, and really it's interesting to see people's view points. Plus, since this is affecting something that I enjoy, I wanted to know more about the laws and rules that govern it. People tend to throw around stuff like the DMCA(typo in my original post) and the new rules that apply to the iPhone jailbreak, but not many seem to, you know, research what they're "quoting". However, once people start to tangibly help, they should atleast be informed as to what can and cannot be applied to the case so that they can make an informed decision.

radiantshadow92 said:

Tsudai said:

Comparing the jailbreak of the iPhone with what is happening to the PS3 is a stretch, at best. The ruling for the jailbreak of the iPhone being legal states specifically that that ruling only applies to "wireless telephone handsets". On Tuesday, July 27, 2010, the Librarian of Congress created 6 new class of works that would be exempt from the DCMA, with 2 dealing specifically with jailbreaking of those "wireless telephone handsets".

The two classes as quoted from the Federal Register / Vol. 75 No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2010 / Rules and Regulations are:

"B. Computer programs that enable
wireless telephone handsets to execute
software applications, where
circumvention is accomplished for the
sole purpose of enabling
interoperability of such applications,
when they have been lawfully obtained,
with computer programs on the
telephone handset."

and:

"C. Computer programs, in the form of
firmware or software, that enable used
wireless telephone handsets to connect
to a wireless telecommunications
network, when circumvention is
initiated by the owner of the copy of the
computer program solely in order to
connect to a wireless
telecommunications network and
access to the network is authorized by
the operator of the network."

The first class is one that many people would see as applying to the PS3 for the case of homebrewing. However, it states specifically that this new class is in regards to wireless telephone handsets ONLY. The second class is probably the one most people know of, that allows people to jailbreak their phones so that they can use their phones on the wireless network provider of their choice.

What I find interesting is another class, that in all probablility not many people know about, that was introduced by the Librarian of Congress in the same document as stated above that deals specifically with video games and the circumvention of their security:

"D. Video games accessible on personal
computers and protected by
technological protection measures that
control access to lawfully obtained
works, when circumvention is
accomplished solely for the purpose of
good faith testing for, investigating, or
correcting security flaws or
vulnerabilities, if:
•The information derived from the
security testing is used primarily to
promote the security of the owner or
operator of a computer, computer
system, or computer network; and
•The information derived from the
security testing is used or maintained in
a manner that does not facilitate
copyright infringement or a violation of
applicable law."

This is where I think SONY could have a case if you say PS3s are PCs. If Geohot brought the weak security protection to SONY's attention beforehand so that SONY could look into it and not just post the key on his site for the world to see, I doubt SONY would be suing him. If PS3s are not PCs, then it could be argued that this class does not apply.

So yes, Geohot has every right to hack HIS system. But when he posted the keys to the PS3 for everyone and their mother to see while pretty much giving SONY the finger, he crossed a line. He broke and exposed a flaw in the PS3's "technological protection measures", but he didn't use this knowledge to help SONY fix it. What he really did by exposing this flaw in the way he did it is "facilitate copyright infringement".

Link to the Federal Register PDF: http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf

Thats a good post you got there.

Thanks. What I would find ironic is if SONY uses that class that pertains to video games and the circumvention of their security against Geohot in this case. That new class came about because of what happened with SecuROM.

tl;dr Learn to read...? lol... j/k... Well not really, cause you really should read it; might learn something. Or not. It's up to you.

That's not really an issue though, since he wasn't directly effecting the software are hardware.  It's not illegal to tell people how to do it, only to do it for them.  As long as HE wasn't pirating games, there is no case.

If he posted custom firmware online that allowed piracy, you MIGHT have an arguement.

However simply explaining how to do it isn't anymore illegal then posting a bomb making recipe online.

Which, if you think it SHOULD be more illegal then posting a bomb making recipe online....

my god you have some messed up priorities.

Heck, you can sell people kits, to turn semi-automatic guns into automatic guns, with everything you need to do it, and printed instructions... and that's not illegal.

Aside from which, D was soley a way you can get out of it.  Not an be all/end all only justification for drm circumvention.



Oh... not sure if i mised this somewhere....

but it looks like he got donated all the money he needed... in 18 hours.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107899-PS3-Hacker-Raised-All-the-Legal-Funds-Needed-to-Beat-Sony-in-a-Weekend



Kasz216 said:

Oh... not sure if i mised this somewhere....

but it looks like he got donated all the money he needed... in 18 hours.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107899-PS3-Hacker-Raised-All-the-Legal-Funds-Needed-to-Beat-Sony-in-a-Weekend


O_O



Kasz216 said:

Oh... not sure if i mised this somewhere....

but it looks like he got donated all the money he needed... in 18 hours.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107899-PS3-Hacker-Raised-All-the-Legal-Funds-Needed-to-Beat-Sony-in-a-Weekend

Money down the drain. Him spreading copyrighted code defeats any defense he could have.

With that, people have reached a new level of loathsome... however,  I think we should host something similar for breast cancer - if donaters are that willing and determined, we'll have it cured in a week!



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skeezer said:
Xen said:

This thread is hilarious. People donating to a publicity whore, somebody who CLEARLY did something illegal in the fact that he didn't just hack his own console, but distributed copyrighted code used to hack a whole GRID. Yeah. let him keep fighting for freedom, for the windows PC's that we won't be able to use for what we want anymore if Sony wins - a reminder for that meek argument: all PC's since win95, as far as I know, are open for exprimenting out of the box... and all PS's since the PS1 are closed. How the hell does this argument justify anything?

All of you who indeed donated, you could've burned that cash and you'd have the same exact results. All of you who said that they did, and there are indeed a lot in here, you are just sad and should find another hobby.

/endrant

We are clearly on that same wavelength 100% of the time 8)

Pretty much!



Xen said:
Kasz216 said:

Oh... not sure if i mised this somewhere....

but it looks like he got donated all the money he needed... in 18 hours.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107899-PS3-Hacker-Raised-All-the-Legal-Funds-Needed-to-Beat-Sony-in-a-Weekend

Money down the drain. Him spreading copyrighted code defeats any defense he could have.

With that, people have reached a new level of loathsome... however,  I think we should host something similar for breast cancer - if donaters are that willing and determined, we'll have it cured in a week!

I... have yet to see anyone with a legal degree agree with you.

Pretty much every "legal opinion" i've read on the matter suggests he probably will win, depending on the judge.



Taken from http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/faq.cgi which can be found from the link provided by Kasz216:

"Question: What are technological protection measures?

 

Answer: Technological protection systems are already in place in DVDs, eBooks, video game consoles, robotic toys, Internet streaming, and password-protected sections of web sites. The fact that a digital protection may be really weak and easy to circumvent has not prevented courts from applying this law to punish those who bypass them.(Bolded for emphasis)

The DMCA defines an access control mechanism as a measure which "in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work." [1201(a)(3)(B)] An access control is a technology, like a password or encryption that controls who or what is able to interact with the copyrighted work. It is a violation of the DMCA to circumvent access controls, but it is also a violation to provide tools to others that circumvent access controls (including selling, distributing free of charge, and possibly even linking to a site with such technology ? or even the source code).(Bolded for emphasis)

The DMCA defines a copy control mechanism as a measure which, "in the ordinary course of its operation, prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner." [1201(b)(2)(B)]. Technological systems designed to protect against copyright infringement control whether the work can be copied, how many copies can be made, how long you can have possession of the work, etc. It is a violation of the DMCA to provide tools to others that circumvent copy controls [1201(b)], but it is not a violation of the DMCA to engage in the act of circumventing copy controls. Rather, the provision serves to buttress prohibitions against infringing activities of traditional copyright law."

 

Geohot found a way to circumvent "access controls" put in place on the PS3. He also posted the keys that would allow others to circumvent these "access controls". By posting the keys on his site for everyone who visted his site to see, he is possibly in violation of the DMCA.



IMO, this is just a rehash of the DeCSS case. One should be able to do what they want with what they legally own, whether it be run unapproved software or keep backups of our games/music/movies on our hard drives.

It's a difficult stance to take because it is something which should be legal, but we are worse off because of it since some people decided to take advantage of it. Sony is already banning the pirates, so at this point it should even affect anyone in this thread anymore... so why all the hate? If anything it just gives you another optional way of using your PS3 if you ever do decide to stop using it on the PSN.



Kasz216 said:
Xen said:
Kasz216 said:

Oh... not sure if i mised this somewhere....

but it looks like he got donated all the money he needed... in 18 hours.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107899-PS3-Hacker-Raised-All-the-Legal-Funds-Needed-to-Beat-Sony-in-a-Weekend

Money down the drain. Him spreading copyrighted code defeats any defense he could have.

With that, people have reached a new level of loathsome... however,  I think we should host something similar for breast cancer - if donaters are that willing and determined, we'll have it cured in a week!

I... have yet to see anyone with a legal degree agree with you.

Pretty much every "legal opinion" i've read on the matter suggests he probably will win, depending on the judge.

Then apparently if Sony and their lawyers are still fightning this case, I have legal backing.

I hope Sony ruins him - just to see the meltdowns of his various supporters, I've lost a huge lot of respect for some of you. It's amazing how you manage to stand behind him and his antics.