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Forums - General - Mubarack steps down.

elticker on 15 February 2011
Rath said:
Sheeplord said:

Unfortunately, despite the rationality of peace - The Palestinieans and the Jews will find excuse to attack each other (All people, regardless of decent contain hardliners). Heck, even if religion or history weren't plausible enough, someone will make up another.

As to Eygpt's change of government, it's hopeful there won't be another un-democratic state, but it's a plausible and real fear there won't. Granted, I think that the real wish of any western government will be that no one will remember who helped keep Mubarak there.

Granted, it's rather amusing the focus of the media is on Eygpt despite everything tacking place in the rest of the middle east. Large amounts of the region are facing an uprise, hopefully a successful one.

The reason why the focus on Egypt is so intense is because of how important Egypt is as a nation. It's traditionally the centre of the Arab world. The fall of Mubarak will have other Arab dictators shaking in their boots, it's a very ill omen for them.


yeah if we rise as a nation all the arab world rises, if we fall like we have been for decades all arab nations fall. We depend greatly on america which is bad, if we get a proper president and ministry we won't need to depend on them as much, if we don't need o depend on them our influence on the world increases as we have the suez canal, and arab countries should follow our course of action if we become good. take a look at iraq now its fucked up though it has one of the largest if not the largest reserves of oil in the world, Saddam was stupid to attack kuwait and give america a reason to start a war with it especailly that the whole arab world was against iraq.



 

 

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Kasz216 on 15 February 2011
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:
elticker said:
 


oh yah did you see the video of the car of the US embassy running down protesters,

As Kaz said it was stolen. But even if it wasn't did you see the video's of Egyptian protestors attacking pretty much anyone foreign? CTV, CBC, Fox, CNN all were reporting that their journalists were being attacked by Egyptian protestors. A group of Canadian journalists were pulled from their cars and the translator said the egyptians planned on killing them, luckily the army intervened and rescued them.

Canada, the US and other countries only supported the Egyptian Government all these years because they were the Government. You say Egyptian's don't like the US playing around with your countries affairs, as such what did you expect them to do? Come into Egypt topple the Government and insert democracy? Wouldn't that have been meddaling in your affairs? Or should the US have boycott your Government and sanctioned the shit out of it?

The US Canada and other governments respected Egypts soveirnty and did not meddle in your countries affairs anymore then any other country. Sure they signed peace agreements and trade but they always respected your countries independance.

Egyptians would be just as mad if America meddled and intervened militarily to instal democracy. The US and Canada helped get Mubarak to step down. They have done everything they could for the egyptian people.

 

P.S- which University in Canada you going too?

actually mubaraks fucked the US. They ordered him ot step down and give power to sulieman on thursday, he instead gave it to the army on thursday but his son edited the clip so that he didn't resign and give power to sulieman. that was on thursday, the next day sulieman read the speach which gave power to the army and both army generals in control, al musheer tantawy and al fariq anan don't like israel as they have fought against them in the 1973 war. 

Waw what accusation you give us, these were the secret police who were attacking reporters, let me ask you a question if it was us the people attacking news reporters then why wasn't the american embassy destroyed or israeli embassy for this matter, why wheren't protesters burning israeli and american flags, why weren't we holding anti american signs? give me a reason for why we didn't do that and would attack news reporters.

im applied for U of T for biological science along with western ontario, algoma for computer science and waterloo for mechanical. 


How did that "fuck the US."  They wanted him to give the power to someone else and transition to democracy.  He did that.  When they suggested sulemin he was the only one at the time that made sense.  Then the military decided they'd be willing to make a transition, and they let them do it.  I find it odd, you couldn't find a way to argue with any of my post, yet still continue with the general ignorance about America's perferred position in this.   Cognitive Dissonance, much?  I mean, this could and up being a positive huge change in your countries history.  You'd think you'd want to have an accurate view of it.  I mean, if you were Egypt i'd get it... cause Obama really botched it by reacting too much behind the scenes and sending the wrong person to demand his removal.  However from someone in Canada... it should be pretty eaisly to see the truth.

I mean heck.  The US has been funding "Pro Democracy" groups in Egypt for quite a while now... well before these protests.  They gave money to the regime too... but as part of a trade deal for expedited travel through the Suez and for the peace treaty with Israel.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/middle-east/us-gave-material-support-to-pro-democracy-groups-in-egypt-wikileaks

Besides, unlesess the generals plans are to "Start a war with Israel immediatly before putting in a democracy" I don't see how it would really matter who the middle men are.... and if they did that, there would be about zero percent of democracy happening.



ProdigyBam on 15 February 2011
elticker said:

he is literaly a war hero. he is appreciated by every egyptain as the reason for our success in the yum kippur war. he died a day before mubarak leaving pwoer a huge military parade was organised to honour his service


Lol succses?

You attacked israel out of nothing when they had their biggest holyday, if that is called a succses..



Fedor Emelianenko - Greatest Fighter and most humble man to ever walk the earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVrNOQtlzY

ProdigyBam on 15 February 2011
Slimebeast said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:

I hope the military does a good job of ensuring democracy and human rights. I'm not sure what is in the Egyptian Constitution but freedom of religion, speech etc...etc... need to be ensured in a future Egypt. The Military should also ensure that no radical extremist groups are allowed to participate in the election. Also the military should do everything in its power to keep Egypt on a moderate path.

If Muslim Brotherhood get in during elections lets hope they don't try to radicalize the country. Also the Egyptian Christian's have faced persecution for years I hope that the military and Government (Who ever elected) take steps to protect minorities.

In the end I hope the new Government isn't radical, a true human rights loving democratic party would do wonders for Egypt. Imagine a middle eastern country with all the freedoms and democracy of a western nation, that would be amazing and thats what I hope happens. But theirs a chance tyrants will get in control, start a war thousands if not millions will die, that would not be good at all.


are you talking about the same brotherhood i think i know since they were walking with women and christains in the streets they prayed in their own way without the brotherhood interruption and they didn't tell women to cover their heads. you know what a democracy is right so if people want hte brotherhood to rule egypt then it should as people make decision and reap the benefits or the consequences. egyptains should decide their future.

Yep I'm talking about the same Brotherhood. While they appear more moderate now they used to have an armed wing which we would call terrorists. From what I've heard reported the BrotherHood is pro-strict sharia law and also a supporter of Hamas and Hezbullah.

Also yes your right in a democracy the Egyptians will choose the Government. I just hope that some political parties are formed that will ensure Egypt remains on the path of human rights and peace. A government that supports Hamas and Hezbullah would be very bad for Egypt and peace in the middle east.

As Mr.Bubbles said the west is alittle concerned if an extremist group or supporter of extremist groups got in control it could lead to a new huge war in the middle east. We all know that any huge war in the middle east will only bring repression , pain and suffering and hatred. Thousands to millions could die and even more would be displaced.

Plus we all know Israel would kick Egypt, Lebanon and Hamas's butts if another huge war occured. If they ever looked like they were loosing the west would come in and rescue them. Either way it would be a disaster for Egyptian's Palestinian's , Lebanese and Israeli's.

Nobody would make any gains in a war and who ever wins the war would still have lost far more then they could possibly gain.

we will see about that as i am sure there will be a war between israel and egypt but i don't forsee it until atleast 20 to 30 years when egypt has established itself. I am an egyptain and currently i don't want war with israel but in the future when we get pwoerful enough i want us to help palestine by stopping all the land israel is getting by stealing it from the original owners and keep peace between them, but if another war is to happen i hope israel doesn't resort to nuclear weapons threat so that the usa could support them like they did in 1973. Also take in mind that the yum kippur war was only syria and egypt, saudi arabia, jordan, all the oil countries didn't participate until the war was almost over.

 also if they listened to saad elshazly we would have tactically won as they disobeyed him and thats why the israeli counterattack was so successful. i have to admit that the israeli commando performance was great which in part led to the disruption of our communication which was also a major factor in the breakdown of our defenses. also many claim that the 1973 war convinced arabs that israel is undefeatable buti believe and so many egyptains that we can beat israel if we go to another war, however i don't want to go to war as egyptains will be killed in the war.

the israeli airforce was superior to the egyptain air force.

The Jews came there first, long before Arabs. In my personal opinion Arabs don't even really belong in Egypt. Arabs conquered Egypt, made the population Islamic and forced the Christians to submit and become a silent minority and I don't think that's a good thing.

It's saddening to hear you as an Egyptian are talking about a future war with Israel only because you are so upset about the Palestinian situation. Only because they're your Arab brothers.

No wonder Israel sees the whole Arab/muslim world as a threat.

Lol, this guys pathetic, he says Israel "should not steal land from the original owners (palestinians)"

first, the jews were there first and second

you (as a arab) dont have the right to live in egypt according to yourself, because the egypt was the land of the real egypts the coptic christians and you "stole" it from them



Fedor Emelianenko - Greatest Fighter and most humble man to ever walk the earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVrNOQtlzY

Rath on 15 February 2011
ProdigyBam said:
elticker said:

he is literaly a war hero. he is appreciated by every egyptain as the reason for our success in the yum kippur war. he died a day before mubarak leaving pwoer a huge military parade was organised to honour his service


Lol succses?

You attacked israel out of nothing when they had their biggest holyday, if that is called a succses..

From what I understand by success they mean that in that war they didn't get completely demolished. It was gaining back a bit of honour after being roundly thrashed in the six day war.

Either way, it's in the past now and should stay there. Egypt and Israel not being at war is in my opinion one of the most important diplomatic agreements in the Mid East.



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elticker on 15 February 2011
ProdigyBam said:
Slimebeast said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:

I hope the military does a good job of ensuring democracy and human rights. I'm not sure what is in the Egyptian Constitution but freedom of religion, speech etc...etc... need to be ensured in a future Egypt. The Military should also ensure that no radical extremist groups are allowed to participate in the election. Also the military should do everything in its power to keep Egypt on a moderate path.

If Muslim Brotherhood get in during elections lets hope they don't try to radicalize the country. Also the Egyptian Christian's have faced persecution for years I hope that the military and Government (Who ever elected) take steps to protect minorities.

In the end I hope the new Government isn't radical, a true human rights loving democratic party would do wonders for Egypt. Imagine a middle eastern country with all the freedoms and democracy of a western nation, that would be amazing and thats what I hope happens. But theirs a chance tyrants will get in control, start a war thousands if not millions will die, that would not be good at all.


are you talking about the same brotherhood i think i know since they were walking with women and christains in the streets they prayed in their own way without the brotherhood interruption and they didn't tell women to cover their heads. you know what a democracy is right so if people want hte brotherhood to rule egypt then it should as people make decision and reap the benefits or the consequences. egyptains should decide their future.

Yep I'm talking about the same Brotherhood. While they appear more moderate now they used to have an armed wing which we would call terrorists. From what I've heard reported the BrotherHood is pro-strict sharia law and also a supporter of Hamas and Hezbullah.

Also yes your right in a democracy the Egyptians will choose the Government. I just hope that some political parties are formed that will ensure Egypt remains on the path of human rights and peace. A government that supports Hamas and Hezbullah would be very bad for Egypt and peace in the middle east.

As Mr.Bubbles said the west is alittle concerned if an extremist group or supporter of extremist groups got in control it could lead to a new huge war in the middle east. We all know that any huge war in the middle east will only bring repression , pain and suffering and hatred. Thousands to millions could die and even more would be displaced.

Plus we all know Israel would kick Egypt, Lebanon and Hamas's butts if another huge war occured. If they ever looked like they were loosing the west would come in and rescue them. Either way it would be a disaster for Egyptian's Palestinian's , Lebanese and Israeli's.

Nobody would make any gains in a war and who ever wins the war would still have lost far more then they could possibly gain.

we will see about that as i am sure there will be a war between israel and egypt but i don't forsee it until atleast 20 to 30 years when egypt has established itself. I am an egyptain and currently i don't want war with israel but in the future when we get pwoerful enough i want us to help palestine by stopping all the land israel is getting by stealing it from the original owners and keep peace between them, but if another war is to happen i hope israel doesn't resort to nuclear weapons threat so that the usa could support them like they did in 1973. Also take in mind that the yum kippur war was only syria and egypt, saudi arabia, jordan, all the oil countries didn't participate until the war was almost over.

 also if they listened to saad elshazly we would have tactically won as they disobeyed him and thats why the israeli counterattack was so successful. i have to admit that the israeli commando performance was great which in part led to the disruption of our communication which was also a major factor in the breakdown of our defenses. also many claim that the 1973 war convinced arabs that israel is undefeatable buti believe and so many egyptains that we can beat israel if we go to another war, however i don't want to go to war as egyptains will be killed in the war.

the israeli airforce was superior to the egyptain air force.

The Jews came there first, long before Arabs. In my personal opinion Arabs don't even really belong in Egypt. Arabs conquered Egypt, made the population Islamic and forced the Christians to submit and become a silent minority and I don't think that's a good thing.

It's saddening to hear you as an Egyptian are talking about a future war with Israel only because you are so upset about the Palestinian situation. Only because they're your Arab brothers.

No wonder Israel sees the whole Arab/muslim world as a threat.

Lol, this guys pathetic, he says Israel "should not steal land from the original owners (palestinians)"

first, the jews were there first and second

you (as a arab) dont have the right to live in egypt according to yourself, because the egypt was the land of the real egypts the coptic christians and you "stole" it from them

wtf i didn't steal anything, as you are too ignorant to even ask me what my descendance is. My descendance is pure egyptain before arabs went to egypt then one of the spanish travellers married my great great great great grandmother and so on until i was born. So i have the right to live in egypt by any measure you apply. I am not going to comment on anymore of the crap your spewing out, you know that crap your talking about who the land originally was. So let me see if i understand corectly that means if i turn jewish ot have a jewish son he could just go to palestine and fuck over anyone who isn't jewish and take over their land right. 



 

 

ProdigyBam on 15 February 2011
elticker said:
ProdigyBam said:
Slimebeast said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:

I hope the military does a good job of ensuring democracy and human rights. I'm not sure what is in the Egyptian Constitution but freedom of religion, speech etc...etc... need to be ensured in a future Egypt. The Military should also ensure that no radical extremist groups are allowed to participate in the election. Also the military should do everything in its power to keep Egypt on a moderate path.

If Muslim Brotherhood get in during elections lets hope they don't try to radicalize the country. Also the Egyptian Christian's have faced persecution for years I hope that the military and Government (Who ever elected) take steps to protect minorities.

In the end I hope the new Government isn't radical, a true human rights loving democratic party would do wonders for Egypt. Imagine a middle eastern country with all the freedoms and democracy of a western nation, that would be amazing and thats what I hope happens. But theirs a chance tyrants will get in control, start a war thousands if not millions will die, that would not be good at all.


are you talking about the same brotherhood i think i know since they were walking with women and christains in the streets they prayed in their own way without the brotherhood interruption and they didn't tell women to cover their heads. you know what a democracy is right so if people want hte brotherhood to rule egypt then it should as people make decision and reap the benefits or the consequences. egyptains should decide their future.

Yep I'm talking about the same Brotherhood. While they appear more moderate now they used to have an armed wing which we would call terrorists. From what I've heard reported the BrotherHood is pro-strict sharia law and also a supporter of Hamas and Hezbullah.

Also yes your right in a democracy the Egyptians will choose the Government. I just hope that some political parties are formed that will ensure Egypt remains on the path of human rights and peace. A government that supports Hamas and Hezbullah would be very bad for Egypt and peace in the middle east.

As Mr.Bubbles said the west is alittle concerned if an extremist group or supporter of extremist groups got in control it could lead to a new huge war in the middle east. We all know that any huge war in the middle east will only bring repression , pain and suffering and hatred. Thousands to millions could die and even more would be displaced.

Plus we all know Israel would kick Egypt, Lebanon and Hamas's butts if another huge war occured. If they ever looked like they were loosing the west would come in and rescue them. Either way it would be a disaster for Egyptian's Palestinian's , Lebanese and Israeli's.

Nobody would make any gains in a war and who ever wins the war would still have lost far more then they could possibly gain.

we will see about that as i am sure there will be a war between israel and egypt but i don't forsee it until atleast 20 to 30 years when egypt has established itself. I am an egyptain and currently i don't want war with israel but in the future when we get pwoerful enough i want us to help palestine by stopping all the land israel is getting by stealing it from the original owners and keep peace between them, but if another war is to happen i hope israel doesn't resort to nuclear weapons threat so that the usa could support them like they did in 1973. Also take in mind that the yum kippur war was only syria and egypt, saudi arabia, jordan, all the oil countries didn't participate until the war was almost over.

 also if they listened to saad elshazly we would have tactically won as they disobeyed him and thats why the israeli counterattack was so successful. i have to admit that the israeli commando performance was great which in part led to the disruption of our communication which was also a major factor in the breakdown of our defenses. also many claim that the 1973 war convinced arabs that israel is undefeatable buti believe and so many egyptains that we can beat israel if we go to another war, however i don't want to go to war as egyptains will be killed in the war.

the israeli airforce was superior to the egyptain air force.

The Jews came there first, long before Arabs. In my personal opinion Arabs don't even really belong in Egypt. Arabs conquered Egypt, made the population Islamic and forced the Christians to submit and become a silent minority and I don't think that's a good thing.

It's saddening to hear you as an Egyptian are talking about a future war with Israel only because you are so upset about the Palestinian situation. Only because they're your Arab brothers.

No wonder Israel sees the whole Arab/muslim world as a threat.

Lol, this guys pathetic, he says Israel "should not steal land from the original owners (palestinians)"

first, the jews were there first and second

you (as a arab) dont have the right to live in egypt according to yourself, because the egypt was the land of the real egypts the coptic christians and you "stole" it from them

wtf i didn't steal anything, as you are too ignorant to even ask me what my descendance is. My descendance is pure egyptain before arabs went to egypt then one of the spanish travellers married my great great great great grandmother and so on until i was born. So i have the right to live in egypt by any measure you apply. I am not going to comment on anymore of the crap your spewing out, you know that crap your talking about who the land originally was. So let me see if i understand corectly that means if i turn jewish ot have a jewish son he could just go to palestine and fuck over anyone who isn't jewish and take over their land right. 

Yeah sorry, but most of the people in egypt (the arabs) dont have the rights (according to you) to live there, because they took it from the coptic christians in the islamic expansion (war)

and israel isnt stealing anyones land and palestine does not exist, just as palestinian people are syric or jordanian arabs, but the two nations didnt want them, when the british mandate ended and israel was formed



Fedor Emelianenko - Greatest Fighter and most humble man to ever walk the earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVrNOQtlzY

NotStan on 15 February 2011

I don't know what to think of this, I highly doubt that Democracy in Islamic countries will work very well. Well I guess it's only time that will tell whether this is a good move for the country or not, sometimes a country does need a tyrant to ensure that it functions properly. As soon as they won one protest another had sparked up in regards to wages, people just get balls when they see someone stand up for what they believe is right and win, and that causes the domino effect all across the Middle East. I can't comment on how well the democracy is working in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I wouldn't bet on efficiently at the present.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

elticker on 15 February 2011
ProdigyBam said:
elticker said:
ProdigyBam said:
Slimebeast said:
elticker said:

 

The Jews came there first, long before Arabs. In my personal opinion Arabs don't even really belong in Egypt. Arabs conquered Egypt, made the population Islamic and forced the Christians to submit and become a silent minority and I don't think that's a good thing.

It's saddening to hear you as an Egyptian are talking about a future war with Israel only because you are so upset about the Palestinian situation. Only because they're your Arab brothers.

No wonder Israel sees the whole Arab/muslim world as a threat.

Lol, this guys pathetic, he says Israel "should not steal land from the original owners (palestinians)"

first, the jews were there first and second

you (as a arab) dont have the right to live in egypt according to yourself, because the egypt was the land of the real egypts the coptic christians and you "stole" it from them

wtf i didn't steal anything, as you are too ignorant to even ask me what my descendance is. My descendance is pure egyptain before arabs went to egypt then one of the spanish travellers married my great great great great grandmother and so on until i was born. So i have the right to live in egypt by any measure you apply. I am not going to comment on anymore of the crap your spewing out, you know that crap your talking about who the land originally was. So let me see if i understand corectly that means if i turn jewish ot have a jewish son he could just go to palestine and fuck over anyone who isn't jewish and take over their land right. 

Yeah sorry, but most of the people in egypt (the arabs) dont have the rights (according to you) to live there, because they took it from the coptic christians in the islamic expansion (war)

and israel isnt stealing anyones land and palestine does not exist, just as palestinian people are syric or jordanian arabs, but the two nations didnt want them, when the british mandate ended and israel was formed

personally right know all i want is egyptto advance and become a superpower like USA after 20 to 30 years.I am going to become a brain surgeon in canada and later start my own hospital in egypt. i want to jion the military for a year as the conscription law states but my dad is opposing me. To this day it still is very hard for me to believe that mubarak is gone, him staying all this time in power, dam. I am so happy that he didn't give his power to sulieman who is just another dictator who won't do as the people want. till now the army is doing great, they dissolved the parliamentary, they also stopped working with the doustour, they made a group of educated people with leading guy being a very good and respectable guy to change the dostour within 10 days and then it will be put to a public vote. the army is doing a great job to date



 

 

elticker on 15 February 2011
ProdigyBam said:
elticker said:

he is literaly a war hero. he is appreciated by every egyptain as the reason for our success in the yum kippur war. he died a day before mubarak leaving pwoer a huge military parade was organised to honour his service


Lol succses?

You attacked israel out of nothing when they had their biggest holyday, if that is called a succses..


you do know that a country should be prepared in anytime for a war right especailly a state like israel which its existance depends largely on the military, so them not being able to fend off the attack and we destroying the strongest line of defence at that time the bar lev line using water cannons, also sadat didn't listen to elshazly which led to the loss of 250 tanks for no gain and then the encirclment of the third army so yes he was the hero that was never given the role he played. you certainly seem to not have read deeply into the 1973 war, sad how he was jailed by mubarak for 3 years and how sadat fired him from the military. Some of the comments remind me of how america expected israel to completly destroy egypt and syria within 24-72 hours. Underestimating the strength of your opponent is one of the biggest mistakes you can make and such israel was going to use nuclear weapons against us just shows how good our performance was compared with any of the other wars. The thing is though israel would never attack an arab country cause if it did it won't get any help from the US and israel can't survive in an all out war without the US. 

 

It is impressive how well trained the israeli military is but i guess you gotta do what you gotta do to survive and israel without its military it would have dissapeared from the map a long time ago. BTW anyone have any opinoins on who would win in an all out war iran or israel, ignore the use of nuclear weapons in the debate.