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radishhead on 17 February 2011

I think that discussion is genuinely coming to a conclusion now, so I'm going to second that vote: time-limit



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Wonktonodi on 17 February 2011
radishhead said:

I think that discussion is genuinely coming to a conclusion now, so I'm going to second that vote: time-limit


just so you know you are the 4th :P



Wonktonodi on 17 February 2011
Hephaestos said:
Wonktonodi said:

sending flowers... all your subtle little jabs


that's actually a litteral translation of a french expression... it's not really a jab but I guess it translates badly. What it means to me is "exchanging compliments".


Well I figured you meant it as them exchanging compliments.  However that doesn't mean it couldn't be meant as a jab. Either by telling them to knock that off.  Or that they are now so happy about how they see things eye to eye they could both be scum or miss something. 



Wonktonodi on 17 February 2011
Linkzmax said:

 

Yes I felt Heph was insulting, but I'm over it. No I don't think he disregarded my points. Well he's claiming much of it is actually prof's points and that implies I can't share the same thoughts, but for my independent points he's addressed them as he sees them. I wouldn't expect him to agree with me on them regardless of his alignment.

your post where you voted  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3919375
his reply and responce when noname asked why he cut more. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3919979

 He's just saying they are worthless. You also don't get back to them when you have your back and forth.  None of it ever mentioning prof.

his reply with your responces http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3920154

In these you two go back and forth a bit and only after all these posts do you mention the defending of ABC. you didn't even mention it in your original post where you voted. You were saying his reaction to you voting for him had you more convinced.  Then one small things changes and suddently you unvote him. 

So I'm wondering where the bolded above comes in with the dismissing your points.  Also I'm wondering why you let some of the posts go in your vote posts.  Why you let your vote go so easily for a point that wasn't even your main argument? 

Something is rather fishy about your actions here

HOS: Links



Linkzmax on 17 February 2011
Wonktonodi said:
Linkzmax said:

I was falling asleep thinking I'd be voting for you today, but when I woke up my mind was thinking I should revote Heph. Unfortunately, if I figured something out in a dream, then I didn't keep the logic. I won't be voting just due to a feeling, but I will look at Heph once again in addition to reexamining you.

1) Noted. I still feel like it was artificial though. I just don't think a townie investigating someone suspicious would get an answer which offers new information and not inquire about it or at least check to see that it's valid.

2) My math was slightly off and I haven't considered cases with additional no lynches. If the scumteam is comprised of 3 members, then overall the odds are still in favor of a no lynch. However, just considering the worst case scenario the random lynch is better for town and better still since I consider the odds to be 3/10 instead of 3/11. If it's only 2 members, then odds are much more in favor of a doc save then a random lynch. On the other hand, if there's only 2 of them then I doubt there would be a doctor anyway. I only bring this all up because I really enjoy math, but it's moot because I believe several players(yourself included) are suspicious enough to warrant a non-random lynch.

4) You refer to the post in which I unvoted Heph(No I don't have three hands, I suppose he get's a Smelly Foot of Suspicion, lol) and also HoSed you, but you missed "This will also explain why I was going to give Wonk an HoS"? 4A I didn't want to bring up the evidence because I was worried you were drawing attention to something that scum might've missed. I wasn't looking for someone else to come up with something. And if they had thought I meant something else then it would've been exactly what I was hoping for, but only because they hadn't noticed it.

5. Your note is really giving me the impression that instead of forming your own opinions you want to point things out, see what people come up with, and then push them towards your goal. First with radish and now with Heph.

1. I'm ok with you finding it artificial. I really don't want to have to ask him to reword his answer several times till it makes sence and then have to ask more questions about the answers to figuer out where they don't make sence.  I figure he'll be lynched one of the early days and I want to focus more elsewhere. 

2. done with math

4. I saw the post where you said you would give me a HOS but said you couldn't because you have to hands and were useing them on Trash and heph.  I only brough this up because then latter when you voted heph you promoted me to a full hand. Then when you unvoted him that left you with three.  Or 2 and the smelly foot. 

4A. I still don't like the idea of telling everyone you have an opinion without showing evidence.  I can understand you were thinking the scum might not notice it but personally I don't think he was saying he himself had a power roll.  If he was that was really stupid of him, but since it was said too late to try and hide it best to make everyone aware so other roles will be aware as well and act apropriatly. 

5. I voted for him.  I had decided to vote for him before I noted the possible slip and still voted for him before anyoen else gave an opinion. I have my own and used it. However it would be nice to ask other peoples since I already am thinking he's scum and might miss other possibilities.  Or if someone else comes to the conclusion he's scum based on that without me useing it first.  They won't be able to say I put the idea in their head.

1) You're proving my point. If you're not going to pursue the investigation then you should've simply ignored ABC and focused elsewhere from the start.

4) That was mostly a joke. I do think it's silly to dole out several FoS/HoS so I wanted to keep a finite amount, but I don't exactly have a system. I'll put things in order by the end of the day.

4A) You said you "thought that he could try the tactict of latter trying to say he has a role that is odd or unsusual." If you're 100% sure he's scum(and that would definitely mean we'd be lynching you next) then that's okay, otherwise any doubt in your mind means he could actually be a townie with an odd or unusual role. You're right that if it turns out to be the case then it's stupid of him, but that doesn't mean he should be made into an example either.

5) Vote or not, you're definitely fishing for everyone's thoughts. That's a point that's already been argued. As for you having decided already, I didn't get that impression from your posts.

Wonktonodi on 02/15/11 01:27 EST

Hephaestos said:

I'm not satisfied with your answers however I do want to read the rest of the posts again before voting.

Wonktonodi on 02/15/11 01:45 EST

Hephaestos said:

 then it was.

and yes it is an unlikely theory, but i can see trucks trying to find ways to add spice without changing too much from vanilla, if not in this way, then in an other.

I think this could be a possible slip.  I have some ideas but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts first.  No Heph not you.  shoo

Wonktonodi on 02/15/11 02:10 EST

 

Since I wasn't satisfied with Heph's answers and in fact found his reasoning to be lacking while I know he has very good reasoning skills. I'm left with one choice.  Happy Valentine's Day Hephaestos <3   :~D   Yes it's still Monday here.  :P

Vote: Heph


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Linkzmax on 17 February 2011
Wonktonodi said:
Linkzmax said:

1.Yes that doesn't seem right. If Truck hand-picked the teams instead of using random.org then I'd have to give him scummy mod points. In all seriousness, your other idea does hold some merit but as I mentioned in the first linked post, I was worried that he may actually have an unsual role. I suppose if you are truly suspicious of him then you'd want to press him for an explanation now, as noname is attempting with ABC, but I am of the belief that it's not pro-town. It's certainly odd to be trying to force a claim with 0 votes on Heph at the time.

2.Yes I felt Heph was insulting, but I'm over it. No I don't think he disregarded my points. Well he's claiming much of it is actually prof's points and that implies I can't share the same thoughts, but for my independent points he's addressed them as he sees them. I wouldn't expect him to agree with me on them regardless of his alignment.

4.Clearly I was wrong to accuse Heph of not observing things, because you're missing a lot of things. Well maybe not wrong, but you're definitely a bigger offender. Your interaction with Heph does remind me of the one last round with hat. The differences being obviously Heph isn't hat and you seem quite different this time around. I'm fairly certain at least one of you is scum and I'm very much leaning your way now. See below for the question which caused my unvote. 


1. I'm not trying to force a claim. That I do believe wouldn't be protown.

2. Maybe that is the case with your points I will have to look that over again myself.  However he most certainly did do that with my points first calling illogical then irrelevant.  That is a big scum tell to me.  I don't see protown people just being that aggressive to dismiss points to make someone look bad.

4. Well it reminds me of it as well.  Difference here being I'm trying it differently since last game it took you guys until after I was night killed to take out hat. Plus this time heph went for something that had already been bothering other people. However he does the same tactic of dismissing points.  I do admit I've missed some things mainly because I skim over talk of older rounds that I wasn't in.

1) Good.

2&4) I will definitely be going over your interaction with Heph. I did have the feeling that he addressed your points, though in a bit of a back-handed manner.



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Wonktonodi on 17 February 2011
Linkzmax said:
Wonktonodi said:
snip

1. I'm ok with you finding it artificial. I really don't want to have to ask him to reword his answer several times till it makes sence and then have to ask more questions about the answers to figuer out where they don't make sence.  I figure he'll be lynched one of the early days and I want to focus more elsewhere. 

2. done with math

4. I saw the post where you said you would give me a HOS but said you couldn't because you have to hands and were useing them on Trash and heph.  I only brough this up because then latter when you voted heph you promoted me to a full hand. Then when you unvoted him that left you with three.  Or 2 and the smelly foot. 

4A. I still don't like the idea of telling everyone you have an opinion without showing evidence.  I can understand you were thinking the scum might not notice it but personally I don't think he was saying he himself had a power roll.  If he was that was really stupid of him, but since it was said too late to try and hide it best to make everyone aware so other roles will be aware as well and act apropriatly. 

5. I voted for him.  I had decided to vote for him before I noted the possible slip and still voted for him before anyoen else gave an opinion. I have my own and used it. However it would be nice to ask other peoples since I already am thinking he's scum and might miss other possibilities.  Or if someone else comes to the conclusion he's scum based on that without me useing it first.  They won't be able to say I put the idea in their head.

1) You're proving my point. If you're not going to pursue the investigation then you should've simply ignored ABC and focused elsewhere from the start.

4) That was mostly a joke. I do think it's silly to dole out several FoS/HoS so I wanted to keep a finite amount, but I don't exactly have a system. I'll put things in order by the end of the day.

4A) You said you "thought that he could try the tactict of latter trying to say he has a role that is odd or unsusual." If you're 100% sure he's scum(and that would definitely mean we'd be lynching you next) then that's okay, otherwise any doubt in your mind means he could actually be a townie with an odd or unusual role. You're right that if it turns out to be the case then it's stupid of him, but that doesn't mean he should be made into an example either.

5) Vote or not, you're definitely fishing for everyone's thoughts. That's a point that's already been argued. As for you having decided already, I didn't get that impression from your posts.

1. After my investigation I was no longer concerned over his statement on waiting for prof.  That had been the statement he had made that trouble me the most.  There are so many smaller things that so many have pointed out, that others have pointed out aren't that conclusive. 

4A. I am confident he's scum.  So I figuer anything that he could do that would be hinting at something more is him up to no good.  Now if he does have a roll he shouldn't be hinting.  It makes him a more likely target of a night kill.  The fact that it makes you have doubts about lynching him or those that supsect him make me feel that he is scum useing it to hide.  If he did have a roll I figure he would only come out if he were about to be lynched.  Otherwise there is no need for it.  If he does get close to being lynched and roleclaims then I would take my vote off him but keep both eyes on him and the results of the night.


5. if there is something wrong with wanting everyoens thoughts. I'd like to know what is is?  If you give me a reason for why it's so wrong maybe I'll change how I play.  If not I plan on continuing with wanting more opinions.

Go back even further with my posts. Back to when I answered Nonames question about who we would vote. 

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3916819  I think that's pretty clear that there isn't much that could happen to stop me from voting Heph.  However if I find people who vote fasts suspicious for not talking the points out it would be very hypocritical of me to rush my vote.  It was pretty obvious it was coming however I did give heph a chance to talk first.



Hephaestos on 17 February 2011
Linkzmax said:

 I think it's odd you don't mention trashleg though, as I would consider her pretty quiet lately. She's posting enough to answer questions and distance herself from you, but all of her scumhunting has only been focused on ABC.

well that's exactly why i didn't list her, she already posted enough to distance herself from me, there is no need for her to do more. I know i'll flip townie and for either a mafia or a town, the best position is that of being vocally distant from the towie, yet not participate in their misslynch. Voting for me would only disserve her efforts as it'd add a link to me and a bad one.

Oh and I seriously have no clue on what she is, but she does seem very afraid of being suspected and a little bit too openly so... which is contradictory...



OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

Wonktonodi on 17 February 2011
Linkzmax said:

1) Good.

2&4) I will definitely be going over your interaction with Heph. I did have the feeling that he addressed your points, though in a bit of a back-handed manner.


I never felt that he addressed them well at all.  First it was that my argument was illogical.  Then irrelevant.  That itself was big to me.  Sadly I now don't recall where it ended whether it was me telling him how the points were relevant or him refuting them with a logic I don't understand.  I will look back on this when I return.



theprof00 on 17 February 2011

I've gone back through all the posts for each individual posts and concluded that there is probably a little too much inspection into what people are saying. That being said, I also got a strong town vibe from ff, who was someone I was worried was flying under the radar.

After reading through stefl's posts however, I have a good feeling he is scum. Mainly this is due to his insistence on ABC when people started unvoting him, despite that he was asked to look at Heph,myself, and trashleg.

At this point, it's between stefl and Heph.

Though I hate to vote for Heph when it's day one and he waited all of last game to play this one, I can't shake the feeling that he's scum.

Vote: Hephaestos