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Linkzmax said:
snip

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"One might argue", aren't you arguing that with your FoS? I will admit that it's quite exciting to be voted for, but as far as scary goes it's more of a relief. It's quite selfish, but I'm afraid of being too clean. Anyway, your vote didn't elicit my response, it was your question that made me realize one of the "facts" I was forming opinions from was incorrect. Your vote felt rushed and quite "Oh My Gosh, yoU're Scum" (OMGUS) to me. I was not expecting you to go right back to Wonk though.


What question was that?  Also what are your thoughts on his behavior of dismissing points? Then when confronted finding other ways to dismiss them?



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Hephaestos said:
A Bad Clown said:
Wonktonodi said:

Ok haven't been on in a while and unfortunatly can't stay on for too long.  However a few things to address before I'll be back latter

@linkz IIRC I had voted for Heph before the post that I said was a possible slip not after.  I could be mistaken but if no one else checks this now I will when I get back.  Also I have asked ABC to clarify some things not sure timing and can't check that now either. I don't feel as satisfied with the answeres as I want to be, however with as many votes on him as there are I would rather focus elsewhere for now.  Mainy on Heph.  Oh my thought was maybe trucks didn't do random scum but instead made a strong team.  With him also saying we should lynch strong players, yet not saying it.  I did not think it was trying to hint at a protown role.

@nonname personnally I think I was doing more to find scum before heph than after.  Since now I'm pretty sure he's scum and want to get people to vote for him.

That's all for now be back a bit latter.


Response: Heph is starting to look that way.

I am sorry, but I can not vote due to me having 4 votes.

If I were to vote, Heph could have his possible mafia buddy vote me.

Thus, saving himself.


that logic makes no sense, a mafia would not vote you to save me, they'd vote me to make sure they look townie too. If they voted you they'd paint themselves as scum and the town would hit 2 birds with one stone. Basically with me gaining vote momentum you can consider yourself saved for the day. However Proff and Linkz have cleaverly kept you on the radar by nicely putting that they expected you to be on the lynch seat again in the next few days (that was about 75 posts ago when they were sending flowers to each other at how amazing it is that they have the same targets).

Well they wouldn't make it blatantly obvious but that doesn't mean they wouldn't do it. If he were lynched and not and turned out town.  The last two votes on him wouldn't look good however he does have enough on himself.  Plus you could even be one of the votes so it would only be one of your fellows giving him away.  You could justify your vote by saying you know you're town and there would be no guarantees that the town would find scum from it. 

sending flowers... all your subtle little jabs



Linkzmax said:

It did hurt a bit, but not nearly as much as if I had made a long strong argument as you rightfully say is my usual style and someone other than the person on the receiving end called it worthless.

The reason I'm keeping it short is because I took noname's advice to heart. It still bothers me that we didn't win last round when I could've been a hero. However, I think the advice is hampering my scumhunting ability. I may not be right all the time, but I can usually spot most of the scumteam my way. And while townies are individuals, we're still a team thus it's not solely on my shoulders to find all of them. So what I learned instead is to be more open to others, and hopefully there will be more townies than scum to point out what I'm still blind to.

I think I see your point now, but that isn't the case. prof may be nordlead in your metaphor, but I'm certainly not you.

I've already said earlier that no lynch is a valid option for me if nobody stands out enough. I don't feel pressured to lynch, but I do know that it is likely the best move for today. I do feel pressured to vote, because things have petered slightly and(like you) I do want to see an end to this day and game sometime. I don't want to rush anyone to a rationalization though.

Who else were you expecting to pop up and vote for you? Or did you mean prior to my vote you thought there would be more votes already?

"One might argue", aren't you arguing that with your FoS? I will admit that it's quite exciting to be voted for, but as far as scary goes it's more of a relief. It's quite selfish, but I'm afraid of being too clean. Anyway, your vote didn't elicit my response, it was your question that made me realize one of the "facts" I was forming opinions from was incorrect. Your vote felt rushed and quite "Oh My Gosh, yoU're Scum" (OMGUS) to me. I was not expecting you to go right back to Wonk though.

My intent is not to hurt but shake... ironic how i'm the one that called proff a bully =) my appologies on that.

noted

noted

Well had I goten a time limit, I expect it to have been 72 hours, there'd still be a good day of discution to conclude everything. We're nearing 900 posts now, so the pace has slowed down a lot, if the day lasts too long, and depending on the night death(s) it could verywell just crawl because of exhaustion. A night would have been a good break and let everyone catch up.

mostly people that have posted little and are quiet. Although I focused on Wonk prof and you in my accusations, I highly doubt you're the mafia trio. Since we know little about FF, Stefl , republic, noname and radish, I wouldn't put it past them to do a stealthy jump on the train.

Well the fos is more for what I consider to be a lower quality of your argumentation than for the reaction to the vote. Your explanation will help others understand better your unvote though.



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theRepublic said:
Wonktonodi said:

@prof could you bully heph please or at least ask him tough questions and not give up till you get some answers.

What is this?  I don't think I have ever seen somebody ask someone else to do their interrogation for them.  How do you know that Prof is trustworthy enough to be able to give a fair interrogation to Hephaestos?  They could both be scum.  Or maybe just Prof is scum.  Either way it wouldn't work.

Why are you so trusting of Prof?  Do you know something the rest of us could not?


I mention this a little but I'll put it here as well. with some extra layers of explanation.

It wasn't meant as wanting him to interrogate heph for me, but one of his own.  Plus with all the comments of bullying I liked the idea of theprof bullying Heph. I don't know if I can trust anyone to give a fair interrogation of Heph, but if someone else does an interrogation I can see the worth of it. 

With a situation of them both being scum.  Since I already find Heph suspicious any interrogation that looked half hearted would seem like a cover up. 

If prof is town I figure he'll do a good job.  He could show me where I'm making a mistake or find other things heph has done that don't look good.

If prof scum and heph is town.  I'd be least likely to see it however.  I would look into points he makes as well.  If any seem to be to exaggerated or other things minimized my suspicion could move from heph to prof.

Similar things could happen with trash as well.  Plus also as I mentioned before I wanted them to stop there back and forth.



Final-Fan said:
A Bad Clown said:
Response: Heph is starting to look that way.
I am sorry, but I can not vote due to me having 4 votes.
If I were to vote, Heph could have his possible mafia buddy vote me.
Thus, saving himself.

I think this is the worst reason I've ever heard for someone not voting. 

On the other hand, when noname unvoted he promptly voted in accordance with this being a sincere post.  So whatever. 

Just, ABC, in the future, this is a really, really bad reason to decline to vote.  In fact I would say that even if what you were afraid of happened (and I am far from convinced you would get suddenly lynched like that) it would actually help the town identify scum, thus your death would be in a noble cause. 

It's bad reasoning however not impossible reasoning.  I did mention some of this a few posts ago.  However I do agree that he should have just voted. Since more likely than not we would get usefull information. 



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Silver-Tiger said:

Current votes (6 needed to lynch):

[1, L-5] Linkzmax:  (theprof00); (Stefl1504); Hephaestos

[0, L-6] Stefl1504:  (noname2200)

[0, L-6] noname2200: (theprof00)

[0, L-6] theprof00: (Stefl1504)

[0, L-6] trashleg: (Hephaestos)

[3, L-3] A Bad Clown: (noname2200); (Final-Fan); trashleg; radishhead; theRepublic

[0, L-6]  theRepublic: (Final-Fan)

[1, L-5] Wonktonodi: Hephaestos

[2, L-4] Hephaestos: Wonktonodi; (Linkzmax); A Bad Clown

small mistake you have heph voting for me and linkz

or maybe this was the twist he was talking about :P



TruckOSaurus said:
Stefl1504 said:

I just checked if I wasn't posting at night, now I have made two unvotes and my vote is still on theProf... I am getting quite disappointed with the moding here...

A simple "You've missed my unvote" would have been sufficient, no need to get bitter.

Current votes (6 needed to lynch):

[0, L-6] Linkzmax:  (theprof00); (Stefl1504)

[0, L-6] Stefl1504:  (noname2200)

[1, L-5] noname2200: theprof00

[0, L-6] theprof00: (Stefl1504)

[0, L-6] trashleg: (Hephaestos)

[4, L-2] A Bad Clown: noname2200; (Final-Fan); 
trashleg; radishhead; theRepublic

[0, L-6]  theRepublic: (Final-Fan)

[1, L-5] Wonktonodi: Hephaestos

[1, L-5] Hephaestos: Wonktonodi

Stefl1504 said:

Okay... since searching for the start of the prof/trashleg/hef discussion(I said I didn't got far yet, acctualy I only checked the first few pages for trashleg and hephs posts) I stumbled onto a lot of the things that made me suspicious of ABC I decided to dedicate my time to him now:

I am going to start on Page 6, Post 1 (@50pp) - it was just one of the many posts where ABC tried to completly distract form the topic, the interesting thing about this post is, that when I told him to stop joking so far into the game (I considered his post as a joke then, not as a pure mean of distraction), he got really defensive, accusing everyone, to turn everything he says into an FoS against him, that was when I first got the feeling that I could be onto something...

Regarding this post of ABC:

"Stop asking me questions when I'm sleeping! And I wanted to wait for the prof so I could look at everyone in the game before asking questions..."

I think I read this misunderstandable post quite different from the others here... theprof interpreted it like this:

"Ok, I'll wait for the prof to check him out to see if he could be bad news."

while I interpreted it like this:

"I'll wait for the prof to get him to check out everyone and I will start asking questions (to everyone) then."

So to me he tried to befriend theprof, which did not happen because of the bad expression ABC used. I know that he later confirmed theprofs interpretation, but that is because he already defended himself against theprofs interpretation, he might have done that because of comfort.

I think there is a lot of room for interpretation in the post of ABC. (and if I am wrong here, please tell me so and I am willing to throw away all my theories about ABC)

theprof then provoked following action by ABC by further presuring him:

"Sudden... urge... to... vote prof got not stoppin..."

I think this post was made due to ABCs frustration because he failed to befriend theprof (now he was somehow able to get theprof of his ass).

Later he tries to attack theprof and wonk directly without good reasoning.

ABC then accuses Radish of using the momentum against himself (ABC) to attack Radish, while at the point of Radish's vote it was 100% valid to vote for ABC.

Also before entering Robot-Mode (which caused his gameplay to get better), he threw arround suspicion on everyone, except for linksmax. Final-Fan, Noname and I got only little attention.

I am going to take a closer look at his robot-mode posts, since I also dislike some of those...

weren't you going to analze heph,trash, and I? I know you stumbled onto this and got side-tracked, but I can't help but think that this post is designed to put votes onto ABC..





Final-Fan said:

OK I was all set to vote Heph after his tirade, but the very same post made Linkzmax unvote, so maybe not...

And apparently I'm illiterate? 

you seem to do a lot of the "ah ok then i'll do it too" so FoS FF

(I fos you for not voting me, that's smart of me ^^)

 

Besides that, you noticed noname said "Scum" are illiterate or lazy, so what you said is basically a confession...



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Wonktonodi said:

sending flowers... all your subtle little jabs


that's actually a litteral translation of a french expression... it's not really a jab but I guess it translates badly. What it means to me is "exchanging compliments".



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Wonktonodi said:
Final-Fan said:
A Bad Clown said:
Response: Heph is starting to look that way.
I am sorry, but I can not vote due to me having 4 votes.
If I were to vote, Heph could have his possible mafia buddy vote me.
Thus, saving himself.

I think this is the worst reason I've ever heard for someone not voting. 

On the other hand, when noname unvoted he promptly voted in accordance with this being a sincere post.  So whatever. 

Just, ABC, in the future, this is a really, really bad reason to decline to vote.  In fact I would say that even if what you were afraid of happened (and I am far from convinced you would get suddenly lynched like that) it would actually help the town identify scum, thus your death would be in a noble cause. 

It's bad reasoning however not impossible reasoning.  I did mention some of this a few posts ago.  However I do agree that he should have just voted. Since more likely than not we would get usefull information. 

voting without explanation would have been worse. it's be scumbook save yourself bandwagon.



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