Wonktonodi said:
no one said it was a gambit. hmmm |
i believe noname asked..
OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
Wonktonodi said:
no one said it was a gambit. hmmm |
i believe noname asked..
OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
Hephaestos said:
i do listen, but an argument that i dismissed won't become true to my ears by being repeated. |
look at bolded :P
Hephaestos said:
Unfortunately it makes discutions a lot more tedious :-/ 5) Your issues with gniz were largely due to you not knowing how that player acts. It was actually painfull to watch cause your efforts had merit, but gniz was just a wall to your technique. 6) If I could prove it I would be voting you not HoSing you. And you're correct it's not a point that can be proven. But it'll be a point to take into account with other evidence down the line. |
4)
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3916375
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3916428
and the one right after it, all non-nameless quote boxes directed at you.
3 in total.
I thought you just wanted some discussion. I'm going to assume that you were confused about which posts I was talking about. Despite that, even if they were directed at trash, or about trash, I must have been confused and you were not passively complaining about a lack of discussion when you get your window to post.
And, you had posted seconds before my first post, so I do not blame the window, but, being a nice guy, I will assume that you were playing video games for those 2-3 hours that you were shown as online.
5) My issue with Gniz was that I made an observation about something he did and voted him for it. His response was to tell me that my observation was somehow baseless and innacurate and that made it a good reason for his vote on me. Sure, his play style has a lot to do with it, avoiding questions, discrediting good analysis, those don't say townie to me, and interrogation is not simply about finding scum, but also finding townie. Gniz was completely unhelpful. So, I will concede that point, if you will concede mine.
6) And if you could prove that I was playing differently, you would be voting for a logical fallacy, because your reasoning is that I'm trying to replicate my past gameplay and failing at that, when such a simple solution would be that I've simply altered my gameplay due to new knowledge and experience.
Hephaestos said:
What do you mean dishonourable? insulting you or telling you to be less agressive? i don't think either of trash or me did the first one. |
I was referring mainly to trash calling me drunk.
But I also have to mention that trash was very cooperative. I'll admit I was accidentally overbearing a bit too overbearing. I'm sorry for doing that, Trashleg.
trashleg said: right. see this post, why was ABC apparently going along with the "prof will check people out thing" why didn't he just say what he'd meant, that he wanted to check out prof.? if that was me and id said something so vague and potentially dangerously ambiguous, id be shitting myself trying to clarify. i know i seem to be keeping it purely on ABC, but he IS the one im suspicious of. im looking for evidence of that. gimme 4 or 5 hours to sleep and i'll be back to check out wonk and stefl. promise. |
thank you.
That is specifically why I was focused on ABC for so long and then after really looking back over his posts couldn't bring myself to vote him. Things like what you pointed out. He doesn't seem like mafia.
Let me know what you think of wonk and stefl. Stefl I've been ignoring since he hasn't been posting much, and he is one of the people I'm curently looking at.
Just checking in to say that I have been here in case anyone checked my online status. I've caught up on the thread and now I'm just going through it and working on posts.
Rather than spam the thread with a ton of posts I'm just going to have one for each person I'm quoting. I know the long posts can be harder to digest, but it was the easiest way to be sure I get all of my thoughts out without restating things or getting caught up with new posts by others. Since some of them would be real pain to reply to, I will index each quote within my posts to make it easier to do that. For the sake of not creating a giant quote pyramid, unless someone is just going to requote one individual bit, I think it'd be best to quote any of my posts(so I know you want to question me or point something out) but snip everything out and only leave a hyperlink for the post in question. Note that I'm only suggesting this for the long posts.
An example using one of prof's posts:
theprof00 said: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3917745 |
1) Point
2) Question
3) etc...
At the time of this post I'm at the top of page 8 and I know there were things here I wanted to get to, but hopefully I'll be finished soon.
theprof00 said:
I'm just really worried that you're going to vote and then someone is going to hammer. I'm already upset that republic put him back to 4, another vote would be even worse. I don't want this day to be over, I have thrown out so many questions and none of them are answered. I'll say it again, even if ABC is scum, he's not going to last long regardless. I'm here following leads and making the most of day 1, and I'm not going to waste this chance when he is either going to be cleared or not or flip scum after a lynch anyway, especially when I'm now the favorite for early death. This is my day to play, don't take that from me. |
Had a lot to catch up with, but I have decided against voting for ABC. In fact I'll even go as far as removing the FoS. Among other things that I'll get to in a future posts, noname's advice of "[take] a step back and [stop] overthinking everything. [go] with what you apparently believe" has helped a lot. My take is ABC is an often-confusing, border-line useless townie.(If I were to ascribe to Wonk's idea of voting a "weak" player then I'd be the one tying the knot) But instead of just going with that I've been trying to see how Wonk's, who I have and still am suspicious of, actions would fit with a mafia-ABC. I do recognize the time-travel excuses as bizarre, but I see that as not only misremembering the order of events, but misremembering his own logic. Certainly not a good thing even if he's a townie, but that's why I'm going to go back to ignoring for the most part.
I know what you mean by having questions going unanswered too. I keep a list so that if I feel I've been ignored I can reiterate the question.
theprof00 said: I'm going to leave the two of you alone for now, but if either of you are mafia, so help me god, I'm never playing on here again. |
If this is just an act, then shame on you. If it's the truth and it turns out to be the case, then I really hope you don't follow through on that either.
I thought I was going to have more to say to you, but apparently not. Since this is fairly small, no indexing here.
Wonktonodi said:
Does ABC's messing up of time however make you think that he meant he wanted profs opinion like it was worded? Or do you think that he was wanting profs opinions on other players? I'm thinking he wanted to form an opinion of prof and other players who hadn't played. If you are in agreement there then I bought nothing you didn't You are right about his explanation for not mentioning trangent doesn't make sence. However another simple answer could do. Trangent hadn't posted yet and since I doubt ABC looked back to the list of players to make a list of people he went with one person he had seen post a few at the beginning but then nothing more. Now I'm not sure of the timing of me asking him these things however iirc (and please correct me if I'm wrong) it was after at least prof if not you as well were talking of ignoring ABC. Since I got enough of an explanation to satisfy me I let it go. Now with him talking in a more clear manner I do feel like going back and having him clarify things. |
1) I'm not talking about whether he wanted an opinion on prof or an opinion from prof at all. As part of his explanation for asking for prof, ABC links prof to trangent as people not posting. Then ABC explicitly states why he didn't mention trangent. As I just said in a post to prof, I do think ABC is misremembering his logic, but if you were legitimately concerned with his answer I have a very hard time believing you'd have simply accepted what he said.
@bolded I find it odd that it's been nearly 24 hours since this post and you've said quite a bit, but never directed anything at ABC.
Wonktonodi said:
2. Heph because that chance is rare. More rare than the chance that lynching a random weak player would be scum. There are always possiblities. There could be a doc or a driver or some alien tech to raise the dead. However I'll stick with what I know and not base my plans on asuming the make ups of the game. |
2) Just for the sake of completeness, IF there is a doctor and making the assumption that there are only two or three mafia(safe to say I believe) and no SK,(not a certainty) then odds are better that the doctor makes a save after a no lynch than a random lynch on a weak player. I don't think it's helpful to go through the math, but I'd be happy to after the round is over. Of course this is only true if there is a doctor, and only he(or she) and the mods know if one even exists. I haven't crunched the numbers for other protective/redirection roles(if any exist) but with pure randomness I've found they're almost always better than the doctor anyway.
Wonktonodi said:
With me more no Heph than Trashlegs. A time limit would likely mean people just voting for the person with the most votes a bit before the day ends. No timelimit give more people a chance to change their votes. Trashlegs I more see it as her wanting there to be a break for a bit and also then a less players so she can keep up better with her schedule. |
3) Is the "no" supposed to be "on?" Are the next two sentences your explanation for why you feel more uneasy about Heph than trasleg? Otherwise, why so?
4) Finally, I'd upgrade you to an HoS but Heph and trash are getting them and I only have two hands. But you said something(and I will not explain what) that had I been online at the time I'd have voted for you. Since then it doesn't seem as major as I had thought, but I'm going to be very disappointed if I was right about it.
theRepublic said:
Who says a no lynch can only happen on Day One? We can always no lynch later if the doctor saves someone. That would give the cop an extra investigation, or give the town better odds of finding scum with their lynch. However, if we no lynch now, and the doctor doesn't save anyone, then the town can only mislynch twice before we lose. If we lynch everyday, and the doctor doesn't save anyone, then the town can mislynch three times before we lose. Of course, this all assumes there is a doctor, which is not gauranteed. |
noname already quoted this, but all of this implies there are exactly 3 mafia, which is fine if you're merely assuming that. However, I think it's hypocritical that you called Stefl out for doing the same.
theRepublic said:
I see it as a pretty standard scum tactic. Defend another townie, and if he lives, you gain an ally*. If he dies, you were on the "right" side of the lynch (against it). (I'm not necessarily suspicious of Prof, I'm just going with the example.) *Just ask Final-Fan. I think it was the game right before I joined the mafia games. |
I'd like to thank the three of you(including prof and Heph) for explaining it and giving me examples. That does make a lot of sense, but I still think prof is being far too extreme about ABC to be mafia if ABC flips townie. Although if he were to ever try to trump the fact that he was against the lynch, I would take that as a sign of already knowing the reality of it, thus scum; however, it's quite doubtful that would happen now with me saying it.
Hephaestos said:
4 or 2 would be unbalanced... unless for2 if there is an sk. and i know the option i didn't explain is wrong. |
1) What "option" are you referring to?
Hephaestos said:
The latest example is the best for my point of you overanalyzing into bullying day one. trash said she had 192 posts overnight. You point out it's wrong and that she can't have logged on for 28 hours to get that number. What do you do with this info? instead of drawing conclusions or going to the next question, you requier from her an explanation, and insist on it. This is preasure applied on something that is irrelevant to the game. The only info that you get is that people are enoyed and become somewhat agressive to you. This is what happened with Gniz's being sick last round. You argued for a while on the "let's say" and in the end you had to drop the case (and he turned out town). |
2) prof has already explained himself here, but I thought it was apparent in his post what the conlusion was. "So, you said 192 new posts, eh? That means that last time you were online was 14:41 GMT 2/13/11, which means you went without posting for 20 hours, and just watched." prof never asked or demanded for an explanation, so I really don't see where you got that from. trashleg did try to offer one and it's perfectly reasonable for prof to respond to that.
Hephaestos said: Vote : Timelimit we're reaching 750 posts. People have to have an idea of what they want to do day one by now (and they'll have the time till the timelimit too). |
3) HoS: Hephaestos
I certainly have an idea now, but ~100 posts ago I wasn't as satisfied with my decision at the time. I really don't like the way you(and trashleg) have voted for time limits when the attention of several people shifted in your(and her) direction. Since you pointed it out once again, you defended me in my first game to try and gain the trust of a townie. You've done the same for ABC, and I believe it to be for the same reason. I think despite your claim otherwise, you do want ABC lynched and you're trying to have a deadline instituted to rush people into finishing him off instead of taking the closer look at you.
If I were to vote now it'd be for your lynch. I'm going to go back and take that closer look though.