theprof00 said: Final-Fan said: Can't I do both?   I would prefer you to reason before you "jump" Final-Fan said: Are ... are you saying you don't believe me?  I'm saying that it's convenient in your case against me that "you knew correctly". Without any proof whatsoever. Final-Fan said: The "your defense is a joke" allegation is, as you may notice, in the post ABOVE the quoted one, which contains SEPARATE points which you have not responded to.   And the "ah, shit" clarification still makes no sense to me.  Do you mean that you said it's a cop tell in the sense that you thought he was FAKING a cop tell?  I will revisit that first post the "ah shit" means that I thought it was a fake-claim, but after looking back over it, saw that evidence that it might be true. HOWEVER, do not take my post yesterday in the context of today post-flip. Having a cop-tell does not necessitate being a cop, and as shown, he wasn't even a cop.  Final-Fan said: theprof00 said: pointing the finger at me for hammering wonk when someone else might've done it anyway Wait, what?  What kind of lame-ass excuse is that?  And yeah, I do blame you for shutting down conversation right when someone has made a GODDAMNED ROLECLAIM.  Would you be blaming me so much if he were mafia? Stop using new context to in place of old context. Sure I see how what I did could have been construed as scummy. But is it only something a mafia would do? I don't think so.

I "knew" only that I would have liked to exercise a tiny bit of caution.  Also, I was and am annoyed that you unilaterally prevented anyone else, such as me, from unvoting (who would have wanted to due to the roleclaim) or discussing the roleclaim. 

I don't think I'm taking your "cop-tell" post in context it should not be put into.  Specifically, I am not doing what you mentioned. 

But it does show that you acted SO precipitously that you screwed even YOURSELF out of discussion you would have wanted to do.  That is, if you're not mafia.  Which I still think you are. 

1) already addressed. You're using something that can't be proved as evidence against me.

2) I admit, I should've read the rest of the thread. It was rash. 

3) Not a defense, I'm just saying that you do this every game. I have no reason to worry about your vote in particular except that it will be easier to lynch me later. I'm pretty confident that I will not be lynched. You're just being rash yourself.

4) No, I did not see his claim and nothing I said contradicts this. And yes, I would've voted even if I HAD seen the claim because a) I was tired and wanted the day to end b) I thought it was a fakeclaim that would further delay the game. Look, wonk had played extremely suspiciously. Despite the fact that he was the doc and it was a waste, he could've been lying (especially being so vague as to say "I am a power role"). It was a bad claim, and I saw him getting away as a fake-claim, and I wanted the day to end, and I'd been suspicious of him the whole game. It is a combination of all those factors that influenced how the end of that train went. Again, it was rash, I know. But had he turned out mafia you'd be thanking me right now for having the guts to hammer. Although I'm pretty confident that you're town, all your doing right now is giving mafia an excuse to use the same flawed conclusions that you are.

Remember, yesterday he was not a confirmed townie, today he is. TODAY, you and linkz both talk like he was confirmed yesterday. YESTERDAY, Heph was talking like he was already confirmed. Think about that a little bit. 

AT THIS POINT, I feel that people who are jumping on me are townies looking for a catch to end a brutal and long day 1. So, while I am pretty sure you are town, please look a little bit harder at the evidence before "jumping to conclusions".

5) I'm saying that I shared a lot of your suspicions, so you shouldn't single me out as the guy in the wrong. I understand your anger at my hammer, and I'm just asking you to think about the big picture a little more before deciding that I'm completely in the wrong.

I understand that, but caution is not the solution to everything. 

Yes you are, for 2 reasons:
1) I was wrong about the cop-tell. Just because I thought it might've been a cop-tell does not mean it is evidence enough not to vote. Mafia could be playing as a cop-tell in order to appear cop, and conversely, the cop-tell was false. 

There was no further discussion to be had. We were going around in circles. I had no further questions for anyone, and we weren't getting anywhere. Winning as town doesn't mean not lynching townies. Townies are going to be lynched regardless. Every flip helps narrow the pool of potentials. Look at last game, we lost 6 townies due to modkills and still managed to go into final day with 1v3. It was not that bad. This is not bad either.

wonk isn't a fine example because he was lynched. Who the mafia kills is completely on their own terms while who is lynched is not. There is more to discover from who is killed than who is lynched. Your post is only slightly innaccurate but inaccurate all the same.

I never said that that was specifically their tactic. I said we should think about what strategy they are pursuing. It is only a suggestion of what they could be doing. Secondly, it does make sense from the perspective of, "people who are usually killed early on are alive" Usually, the only reason why one of us makes it to day 2 is because mafia can only kill 1 at a time. So if I'm alive, it's because linkz or yourself is dead. However, this is not the case here. That is precisely why it DOES make sense.

5) ABC is going to be my day 3 (if I make it that far). I will not consider him before that, and if we get a mafia today, then ABC will be bumped to day 4 or 5. 

I'm not against looking at republic's history. I'm saying, "how can you just decide that he was killed because he was on the right track"? That appears to me as trying to lead the discussion in a direction. 

There could be several reason for the night kill:

A) mafia believed I would be lynched today, saving them a night kill and getting a townie who was suspicious of Heph (assuming Heph and Linkz are mafia). Same can be said of Heph, as in, they thought both I and Heph could be eventually lynched.

B) They went with someone who's death wouldn't specifically implicate a mafia.

C) They didn't go with any of us (heph, linkz, myself) because they thought everyone might bandwagon onto one of our suspects. Doesn't make much sense with Heph, though. Both linkz and my suspicions were pretty high for Heph. Eliminating Linkz or myself might have guaranteed a lynch for Heph. Additionally, killing Heph might have made both of us look bad. Assuming that linkz is mafia, that could've turned out badly.

To make a summary
1) Kill prof: lose a free lynch for a suspicious character; put more focus onto Heph; lose a defender of ABC

2) Kill linkz: Put more focus on Heph (and possibly prof)

3) Kill Heph: possibly lose a free lynch; lose a prof attacker.

Guys feel free to add to some of that. I'm not entirely sure who was defending or attacking whom, so some help would be appreciated.

OTOH:

the kill may not have been driven by one of these. It could have been to implicate someone else who was feeling pressured by him (though I did not appear to notice any of that), or because they thought he might've been a power-role.

Current Votes (5 needed to lynch):

[1, L-4] theprof00: Final-Fan 

[1, L-4] noname2200: Hephaestos

i'm sorry, what?

A) I meant a fine example of the town making bad judgement and lynching townies. One would assume the analysis of the lynched townie has no more merit than the one of the people that lynched him. I agree that the who is killed is more usefull for the reason you said... and it is indeed an inaccuracy as I put the lynched and killed townie together.

B) well you also have to consider the numbers... with the assumed 3 mafia that leaves 8 townies... if the mafia are sucessfull, that makes only 3 misslynches and 2 nightkills before they get to victory (3vs3 going in the night), there wouldn't even be enough time to strike out us 3. Striking out one of the other players can be much more interesting strategically as we're bound to focus more on each other... and our talking volume also serves as a cover for everyone else. What I mean is that the pool of players we have here  and the small size of the game make blending unecessary.

5) well I have read your comments today as a move away from ABC.  It's a point i'll keep in mind, but as you point out your plan, I won't bother you with it till the next day.

again, like I've mentioned today several times, what if he had turned out town?

This post seems to almost know that he would not.

And yet you are so confident that he is mafia, enough to almost outright ask for doc protection.

But, are you so confident? So confident, yet you don't like how the lynch train went?

Couple o you have metioned ABC in your posts^

Where is ABC since the start of Day 2 anyway? Does anyone have any thoughts on him?

What about radishhead, who wonk wanted lynched for the sake of a lynch?

Now that wonk is dead, i'm going through who he voted for/FoSed and i promise i will have that document here within 24 hours.