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Forums - Sony - "NGP: the 10 questions nobody’s asking" from some blog

I just read the first two points and all I can say is:

MY PS3 HARDLY MAKES A NOISE. 

Ok, will look if the rest is also full of such fail...

EDIT: @OP Why on earth do you post this nonsense... Oh, I just saw your sig - Now it makes sense. You know you have a spelling error in your sig right?



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That's so hilariously obvious flame bait, I won't even react to it.



updated: 14.01.2012

playing right now: Xenoblade Chronicles

Hype-o-meter, from least to most hyped:  the Last Story, Twisted Metal, Mass Effect 3, Final Fantasy XIII-2, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Playstation ViTA

bet with Mordred11 that Rage will look better on Xbox 360.

Dr.Grass said:

I just read the first two points and all I can say is:

MY PS3 HARDLY MAKES A NOISE. 

Ok, will look if the rest is also full of such fail...

EDIT: @OP Why on earth do you post this nonsense... Oh, I just saw your sig - Now it makes sense. You know you have a spelling error in your sig right?


Spelling error really where? Spelling was never my strong suite but everything I wrote looks like it's spelled right, Bad gramer maybe...

as to why I thought it was funny mostly and burried in there, there are some points lol

You probably shouldn't take anything I say to seriusly TBH I don't



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
Chairman-Mao said:
pezus said:
zarx said:

some interesting points mixed with some obviously flame bait ones lol, still it's interesting

"

Because videogames journalism is embarrassingly bad.

 

1. Two quad-core processors boasting PS3-esque power in something the size of a PSP? Given that a PS3 is about 30 times the size of a PSP and still needs a fan you could get a medium-sized helicopter off the ground with (and which makes about the same amount of noise), how on Earth are they going to manage that without the thing melting in your hands after three minutes?

2. Come to that, if this thing's got as much power as the PS3, how come they haven't just shoved the same tech into an actual PS3(*) so that it won't deafen your pets any more?

3. We're told that the games will be sold online in the PS Store and in shops on special memory cards. But hang on. Once again, if we're talking games that are of PS3 standard in terms of visual quality and gameplay depth, we're going to be talking about several GB a pop.

The biggest SD card you can currently buy (outside of ultra-specialist, ultra-expensive suppliers) costs around £40 for 32GB, and that's still only probably going to be enough for what, eight or nine games? Buy any more and you're going to have to delete your existing ones, then re-download them (at several GB a time) if you want to play them again. Who wants that?

(Those are SD-card memory prices, of course. Sony have said that the memory-card format will be a brand-new proprietary one, and even now a 32GB Sony Memory Stick – a medium well over a decade old – comes in at more like £90 from the cheapest online stores.)

4. Shop-bought games will probably come on their own dedicated memory card. (So nice and small and easy to lose. Bonus for Sony!) But even 4GB SD cards are £6-7, which is a huge jump in cost of media compared to putting games on DVDs or Blu-Ray discs, and with a proprietary format it seems reasonable to bump that up considerably.

Now, obviously Sony won't be paying retail prices for cards, but the cost of manufacture for that much storage in a new format is still going to be very hefty. So given that the focus has so far been entirely on big console-type games with massive development budgets, how much is software going to cost if there's likely the best part of a tenner going just on the blank media? (And Sony are involved.) My blood runs cold just thinking about it.

5. Front touchscreen, rear touchpad, two analogue sticks, d-pad, eight gaming buttons – you KNOW some awful twatsack is already developing a game that uses ALL of those, don't you?

6. What's the point of having two cameras on a device with no phone functionality? (Okay, with 3G support it COULD use Skype and similar, but can you really picture yourself talking into something the size of a PSP? Remember how people mocked the much smaller N-Gage?)

And what sort of cameras are we talking here? Proper iPhone-style ones, or Fisher-Price DS ones? The absence of a flash seems to rule out any possibility of using them for any worthwhile sort of photography, and that's quite a bunch of extra cost and form-factor space to add to a device just so you can have your stupid grinning face on an avatar.

7. Hilariously, GI.biz have apparently already claimed that "the word on the street" is of a price in the range of £180-220. The 3DS costs more than that, and compared to the tech inside the NGP it's running on a wood-fired stove. Sony themselves were still trying to get £249 for the PSPGo last year, and have an unbroken 21st-century track record of gouging consumers on hardware price.

The company has claimed the unit will be "affordable", a term so subjective as to be meaningless, and has also said it wants to make a profit on hardware as well as software. (Uh-oh.) Their most telling comment so far, though, is that the price will be "appropriate for the handheld gaming space".

Let's remember – the "handheld gaming space" now includes the iPhone and the iPad, which fly off shelves at £500-600. And every other device you can buy in Currys today with a touchscreen the size of the NGP's calls itself a "tablet" and sits in broadly the same price bracket as the iPad. Hmm.

So since we're framing these things as questions, let's make it one:You don't REALLY think there's even the slimmest chance in the world of this thing coming out below £300, do you? (WoSblog's guessing £349 at a minimum, with standard games at £40 or even more.)

8. The NGP is the PSP only more so. Offhand I can't think of a single fundamental change between the new device and its predecessors, just a load of extras nailed on. It's bigger, more powerful, and still dedicated primarily to running home-console blockbuster-type games rather than ones designed for the mobile audience. Didn't the relative success of the DS against the PSP (against all predictions) teach Sony anything?

9. Does ANYONE know what's actually going on with the Android link-up? Will the NGP run Android games? Will Android machines run proprietary Android-based NGP games? (And if it's just PS1 games, how are Android devices like smartphones going to cope with emulating a machine with two analogue sticks, a d-pad and eight buttons?)

Is it both? Neither? Something different altogether? Nobody seems very clear. Are Sony going to let the Android Market, with its unfiltered bucketloads of free and super-cheap games, exist alongside the PS Store? Etc etc.

10. And don't Sony know that NGP stands for Neo Geo Pocket? Man, imagine the potential for hilarious misunderstandings and eBay scams.

Even notwithstanding that last one, this could get really messy.

 

 

 

(*) EDIT: Since the influx of educationally-subnormal children to this blog (thanks, N4G!), it seems I need to spell out that point 2 was intended as a facetious joke. Clearly you can't just put the NGP chipset into the PS3. The main reason for this is that it's absolutely plainly NOT as powerful as a PS3, despite what total idiots have been saying for the last few days.

I mean, seriously, that Uncharted demo footage people are wetting their trousers over? Really? It looks like a particularly boring jungle section from a mediocre PS2 Tomb Raider. Tsk.

"

http://wosblog.podgamer.com/2011/01/27/ngp-the-questions-nobodys-asking/

Now, that's not true and an obvious flamebait. Most of this article is, really.

Also, point nr. 8 is so stupid. A PSP with some extras? Yeah, I don't even want to waste internet space on that.


I love how you quoted the whole thing to make a 2 line response. And now I quoted you quoting it to make a 1 line response...

madness


lmao! Wait...damn it! I just quoted the whole OP again!



Chairman-Mao said:
zarx said:
Chairman-Mao said:
pezus said:
zarx said:

some interesting points mixed with some obviously flame bait ones lol, still it's interesting

"

Because videogames journalism is embarrassingly bad.

 

1. Two quad-core processors boasting PS3-esque power in something the size of a PSP? Given that a PS3 is about 30 times the size of a PSP and still needs a fan you could get a medium-sized helicopter off the ground with (and which makes about the same amount of noise), how on Earth are they going to manage that without the thing melting in your hands after three minutes?

2. Come to that, if this thing's got as much power as the PS3, how come they haven't just shoved the same tech into an actual PS3(*) so that it won't deafen your pets any more?

3. We're told that the games will be sold online in the PS Store and in shops on special memory cards. But hang on. Once again, if we're talking games that are of PS3 standard in terms of visual quality and gameplay depth, we're going to be talking about several GB a pop.

The biggest SD card you can currently buy (outside of ultra-specialist, ultra-expensive suppliers) costs around £40 for 32GB, and that's still only probably going to be enough for what, eight or nine games? Buy any more and you're going to have to delete your existing ones, then re-download them (at several GB a time) if you want to play them again. Who wants that?

(Those are SD-card memory prices, of course. Sony have said that the memory-card format will be a brand-new proprietary one, and even now a 32GB Sony Memory Stick – a medium well over a decade old – comes in at more like £90 from the cheapest online stores.)

4. Shop-bought games will probably come on their own dedicated memory card. (So nice and small and easy to lose. Bonus for Sony!) But even 4GB SD cards are £6-7, which is a huge jump in cost of media compared to putting games on DVDs or Blu-Ray discs, and with a proprietary format it seems reasonable to bump that up considerably.

Now, obviously Sony won't be paying retail prices for cards, but the cost of manufacture for that much storage in a new format is still going to be very hefty. So given that the focus has so far been entirely on big console-type games with massive development budgets, how much is software going to cost if there's likely the best part of a tenner going just on the blank media? (And Sony are involved.) My blood runs cold just thinking about it.

5. Front touchscreen, rear touchpad, two analogue sticks, d-pad, eight gaming buttons – you KNOW some awful twatsack is already developing a game that uses ALL of those, don't you?

6. What's the point of having two cameras on a device with no phone functionality? (Okay, with 3G support it COULD use Skype and similar, but can you really picture yourself talking into something the size of a PSP? Remember how people mocked the much smaller N-Gage?)

And what sort of cameras are we talking here? Proper iPhone-style ones, or Fisher-Price DS ones? The absence of a flash seems to rule out any possibility of using them for any worthwhile sort of photography, and that's quite a bunch of extra cost and form-factor space to add to a device just so you can have your stupid grinning face on an avatar.

7. Hilariously, GI.biz have apparently already claimed that "the word on the street" is of a price in the range of £180-220. The 3DS costs more than that, and compared to the tech inside the NGP it's running on a wood-fired stove. Sony themselves were still trying to get £249 for the PSPGo last year, and have an unbroken 21st-century track record of gouging consumers on hardware price.

The company has claimed the unit will be "affordable", a term so subjective as to be meaningless, and has also said it wants to make a profit on hardware as well as software. (Uh-oh.) Their most telling comment so far, though, is that the price will be "appropriate for the handheld gaming space".

Let's remember – the "handheld gaming space" now includes the iPhone and the iPad, which fly off shelves at £500-600. And every other device you can buy in Currys today with a touchscreen the size of the NGP's calls itself a "tablet" and sits in broadly the same price bracket as the iPad. Hmm.

So since we're framing these things as questions, let's make it one:You don't REALLY think there's even the slimmest chance in the world of this thing coming out below £300, do you? (WoSblog's guessing £349 at a minimum, with standard games at £40 or even more.)

8. The NGP is the PSP only more so. Offhand I can't think of a single fundamental change between the new device and its predecessors, just a load of extras nailed on. It's bigger, more powerful, and still dedicated primarily to running home-console blockbuster-type games rather than ones designed for the mobile audience. Didn't the relative success of the DS against the PSP (against all predictions) teach Sony anything?

9. Does ANYONE know what's actually going on with the Android link-up? Will the NGP run Android games? Will Android machines run proprietary Android-based NGP games? (And if it's just PS1 games, how are Android devices like smartphones going to cope with emulating a machine with two analogue sticks, a d-pad and eight buttons?)

Is it both? Neither? Something different altogether? Nobody seems very clear. Are Sony going to let the Android Market, with its unfiltered bucketloads of free and super-cheap games, exist alongside the PS Store? Etc etc.

10. And don't Sony know that NGP stands for Neo Geo Pocket? Man, imagine the potential for hilarious misunderstandings and eBay scams.

Even notwithstanding that last one, this could get really messy.

 

 

 

(*) EDIT: Since the influx of educationally-subnormal children to this blog (thanks, N4G!), it seems I need to spell out that point 2 was intended as a facetious joke. Clearly you can't just put the NGP chipset into the PS3. The main reason for this is that it's absolutely plainly NOT as powerful as a PS3, despite what total idiots have been saying for the last few days.

I mean, seriously, that Uncharted demo footage people are wetting their trousers over? Really? It looks like a particularly boring jungle section from a mediocre PS2 Tomb Raider. Tsk.

"

http://wosblog.podgamer.com/2011/01/27/ngp-the-questions-nobodys-asking/

Now, that's not true and an obvious flamebait. Most of this article is, really.

Also, point nr. 8 is so stupid. A PSP with some extras? Yeah, I don't even want to waste internet space on that.


I love how you quoted the whole thing to make a 2 line response. And now I quoted you quoting it to make a 1 line response...

madness


lmao! Wait...damn it! I just quoted the whole OP again!

Well  I have to say that this current trend of quoting long post chains has got to stop, before it becomes an epidemic. If it is not stopped here and now it may flood across Gamrconnect and then the World...

Wide Web

 

 

Damn it... IT CAN'T BE STOPPED RUN FOR YOUR LIVES



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

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zarx said:
HappySqurriel said:
zarx said:
HappySqurriel said:

Just on #3 ...

Based on what I know about cartridge sizes on the DS, I would expect most early NGP games to be on 1GB or 2GB flash cards; and until late in the generation, few games will be released on 8GB or 16GB discs. This shouldn't be too much of a problem because most HD console games are delivered on the XBox 360's DVD based disc, and I suspect there will be few NGP games which are as ambitious as most HD games; primarily because I doubt developers will be willing to devote the budget to develop HD console games on a portable system.


considering PSP games are already up to 1.8 GB and the level of visuals the NGP can deliver 2-4 GB to start quickly uping to 8GB as games have more development time etc and by the end of it's life 16GB will be common with the odd 32GB monster from someone like Kojima or a final fantasy game with hours of pre rendered video lol

My thought is just how these cartridges will impact game costs ... At 1GB to 2GB today, you could probably deliver a game at a very similar price to selling it on an optical disc; as the size of the disc increases the costs rapidly increase, and you would (probably) need to charge $10 to $15 more for an 8GB game, or $30 more for a 16GB game.

is there any doubt that NGP games will retail for $50-60? The price of flash memory is still dropping and I just don't see retail games with 4-5 times the level of assets (textures, geometry, video etc) being smaller than PSP games bing smaller than 2GB unless they are really lacking in content, not to mention anything under a GB will be download only IMO. And your prices aren't really accurate if SONY are manufacturing their own carts (they probably will) with 16GB SD carts retailing at $50 the actual cost if you aren't paying SD card royalties and manufacturing in high quantities will probably be well under $20 for publishers (still high but dropping quite rapidly) and I don't see games that big for a couple years at least. There are some developments in flash memory on the horizon promise vastly cheaper flash memory in the coming years and massive increases in capacity. 

http://www.fastcompany.com/1610755/hp-memristors-semiconductors-chips-memory-science-flash-ram-physics-electronics

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9183066/Nanocrystal_conductors_using_dirt_cheap_material_promise_massive_3_D_storage

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/08/flash-error-correction-chip/

You've got to consider that the maximum cartridge size for Nintendo DS games is (currently) 1 Gigabit or 128 Megabytes; and (from my understanding) these cartridges only started to get used heavily in the past couple of years because of how expensive they're to manufacture.

It is entirely possible that technology has advanced in the past couple of years so that it is as cost effective to release games on 512MB cartridges as it was to release games on 128MB cartridges a couple of years ago; and Sony might have a higher tollerance for the manufacturing cost of games than Nintendo has, so I could see them using a 2GB cartridge out of the gate; but I doubt this would translate into 4GB cartridges for a few years (and probably not 8GB cartridges until late in the generation).

Now, the premium I'm talking about isn't what stores would charge on most titles, which could end up being anywhere from $39 to $59; the premium I'm talking about is that the occasional game that did use the largest cartridge could be $10 (or more) above the cost of the most expensive regular game price. If Sony matched Nintendo's price range, and NGP games were $40 to $50, I would expect to see 4GB NGP games selling for $60 and an 8GB or 16GB game could sell for as much as $90.

My guess on the premium charge is based on more than raw manufacturing costs, and you have to consider that retailres and publishers will both want more money as the price of a game increases to cover losses from reduced sales.



Game file size/storage options is the biggest issue for me.

If sony wants this product to sell like hot cakes, this issue will be their biggest hurdle.



zarx said:

some interesting points mixed with some obviously flame bait ones lol, still it's interesting

"

 

Because videogames journalism is embarrassingly bad.

 

1. Two quad-core processors boasting PS3-esque power in something the size of a PSP? Given that a PS3 is about 30 times the size of a PSP and still needs a fan you could get a medium-sized helicopter off the ground with (and which makes about the same amount of noise), how on Earth are they going to manage that without the thing melting in your hands after three minutes?

2

How can it have two quad-core CPUs?



zarx said:
Dr.Grass said:

I just read the first two points and all I can say is:

MY PS3 HARDLY MAKES A NOISE. 

Ok, will look if the rest is also full of such fail...

EDIT: @OP Why on earth do you post this nonsense... Oh, I just saw your sig - Now it makes sense. You know you have a spelling error in your sig right?


Spelling error really where? Spelling was never my strong suite but everything I wrote looks like it's spelled right, Bad gramer maybe...

as to why I thought it was funny mostly and burried in there, there are some points lol

You probably shouldn't take anything I say to seriusly TBH I don't


You don't seem to take yourself TOO (there's a hint right there) seriously so no worries man



HappySqurriel said:

You've got to consider that the maximum cartridge size for Nintendo DS games is (currently) 1 Gigabit or 128 Megabytes; and (from my understanding) these cartridges only started to get used heavily in the past couple of years because of how expensive they're to manufacture.

It is entirely possible that technology has advanced in the past couple of years so that it is as cost effective to release games on 512MB cartridges as it was to release games on 128MB cartridges a couple of years ago; and Sony might have a higher tollerance for the manufacturing cost of games than Nintendo has, so I could see them using a 2GB cartridge out of the gate; but I doubt this would translate into 4GB cartridges for a few years (and probably not 8GB cartridges until late in the generation).

Now, the premium I'm talking about isn't what stores would charge on most titles, which could end up being anywhere from $39 to $59; the premium I'm talking about is that the occasional game that did use the largest cartridge could be $10 (or more) above the cost of the most expensive regular game price. If Sony matched Nintendo's price range, and NGP games were $40 to $50, I would expect to see 4GB NGP games selling for $60 and an 8GB or 16GB game could sell for as much as $90.

My guess on the premium charge is based on more than raw manufacturing costs, and you have to consider that retailres and publishers will both want more money as the price of a game increases to cover losses from reduced sales.

Actually the biggest DS cart is 4 Gbit 512MB and is for Ni No Kuni and the 3DS will have carts of between 1-2GB at launch with the posabillity to go up to 8GB http://www.gamingsurvival.com/content.php?1917-3DS-Cartridge-Size-Revealed.

I don't see NGP games being the same size or smaller than 3DS games TBH and with the ever droping prices and increasing capacities flash bassed memory is seeing I don't think that 2-8 GB (2-4 for launch) carts for the NGP going up to 16-32GB later in life is out of the question. Especially with developers saying stuff like the can pretty much use the same assets as PS3 games and the like.

And considering that I don't really see how sony can justify selling games cheaper than PS3 games given the more expensive media. The graphics level of the NGP is going to mean that development is more expensive for oprigonal games than the 3DS which already has $40-50 games, unless publishers can expect higher sales rates on NGP games than 3DS games, they will ether be more expensive, mostly lacking content or be ports and spin-offs that reuse assets, it's just ecconomics.

If the NGP is going to deliver PS360 like games on the go like SONY claim they are going to need to charge console prices and have media at least matching that of a DL DVD at arround 8GB, otherwise the games are going to be very short...

P.S. I know that the NGP isn't really PS360 level and doesn't require the same level of assets and digital media with no seek time will eleminate the need to duplicate data but developers are starting to complain about the capacity of DVDs. So having said that I think 4GB will probably be what most games way in at, with exeotions like the hopeful Gran Torismo game and the possible port of MGS 4/Rising.

P.P.S. It's lat and I can't be bothered proof reading this



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!