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Forums - Sony - Sony's latest attack on customer freedom

Sony's overreaching legally here, far and away. Courts have protected backup rights again and again, and they definitely won't buy the argument that you can felony-hack your own personal private property



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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I still have my original 60 GB PS3 box printed for the U.S. market.  I'll check to see if "other OS" was advertised.



If Sony doesn't want people to own their system, they should just rent out the PS3 for a monthly rate.  That way, they can take it back if it gets hacked or pirated.



mantlepiecek said:

Other OS was never advertised, people. It was a side feature. Even the "it only does everything" was started with the PS3 slim, which didn't have linux, so that argument is useless as well.

Saying sony removed something is why hackers hacked this system is a joke. I am a consumer and I hate it when other people compromise my gameplay environment. The hackers are directly responsible for the hacking, and also piracy. Piracy is something I can give two shits about, I don't want cheaters on my online network.

Hey, my PS3 doesn't make me sandwiches, why didn't geohot hack it then? Huh? After all Sony advertised it. It does everything! I hope Geohot can make it make sandwiches because he has the responsibility of making it do everything now.

That makes sense, right?

Other OS is the biggest BS I have ever heard. The linux runs slow as hell, and it allows only 10 GB to be used. All this hacking BS was done just to gain attention, that's all. 

Till now all we have heard because of this hacking(unlike kinect) is piracy, and cheaters, and activision's lame threat. Nothing worthwhile. 

Correct! If you really want Homebrew stick to a PC. Why do you need to hack hardware to get something you already have....?



thranx said:
geddesmond2 said:

Will we see everyone praise these hackers when there favorite online game is unplayable because of hackers?

Everyones looking at the one thing in this case. They think Hackers are fighting for our rights. Clueless to the fact that when people bought the consol they bought it for the experiance and games Sony said it would bring them. Not for homebrew and not for piracy.

You mean they didn't buy it for the advertised otherOS function that Sony advertised and pushed. Maybe they just want to follow through on the ad campaign, I mean ps3 only does everything (that sony wants you too, andd still lets you do unless they change their mind and take it away). Sony brought this on themselves by removing features they advertised. That is why the hackers are fighting for our rights, our right to use the hardware we buy. The psn hacking and trophie hacking was not done by the people sony is sueing, so whats the point?

OK a few things first. 1 People didn't buy a PS3 for otherOS(apart from scientists and the US Army which don't use them as gaming consols). The people who said they did are liars. 2 I never once seen Sony advertise OtherOS. I've seen them talk about it in interviews when asked but looking at my original launch day PS3 consol box OtherOS isn't advertised on the box and there never was adverts on tv saying you could install OtherOS. 3. The PS3 Slim was advertised to have removed OtherOS so people buying a Slim Expecting OtherOS knew it wasn't there.

Trophies will soon be ruined thanks to Hackers, Online games will soon be flooded with invincible people thanks to hackers and your favorite gaming franchises have half the chances of getting sequels now because of piracy and its all thanks to these hackers.

Perhaps sony should target the people hacking those things, instead of these guys that did none of that

Eh the guys that Sony are sueing are the people who found and released the master key which allows the trophey and online hacking. Its there websites where people are getting this master key from.

Hackers fighting for our rights??? Get the fuck out of here, weres my right to play games fairly that I spent 60 bucks on???

Were is my right to intall otherOS? It only does everything. These hackers did not stop you from doing anything, it was other ones why not target them?

There you are with it only does everything again. Yeah because I thought my PS3 could fly because Sony had a "It only does everything campaign" and thats why I bought it.Cop the fuck on. Only a retard would take that slogon and think it means so much more. What Sony means is it plays games, browses the internet, plays blu rays, DVDs and music. Its a dam marketing slogan.

Also just remember that if it wasn't for Geohut the Phat models of the PS3 would still have OtherOS. He hacked the consol which allowed for pirating games and Sony removed other OS as a way of fighting back.

Anyone whos on the side of these hackers seriously doesn't have a clue on what damage could be caused with all this. They think they'll get to save a few bucks and pirate some games on the sly except this whole hack Sonys trying to stop does much more than allow pirated games, it ruins legitimate peoples experiance.

Anyone on the side of sony doesn't have a clue what they will do if we have no rights. They will not let you use what you pay for how you should be able to. They will continue to remove features after launched and advertised, they may start adding maliciouse code to their disks and possibly hardware. Why trust a company like sony with their track record on these matters?

Oh you think I'm on the side of Sony???

Let me tell you something, I'm on my side. I'm on the side of the people who enjoy the challenges and recongnition PS3 Trophies give you.

I'm on the side of the people who enjoy competitive online Shooters.

I'm on the side of the game developers who create jobs for thousands of people around the world and who work hard for sometimes 2 years at a time in order to bring us great interactive experiances.

I don't care about Sony and I don't care about hackers. All I care about is the experiance I payed 650 euros for. An experiance that never included otherOS Support and Homebrew applications. 

Oh so what your saying is my experiance should be ruined because Sony took your experiance away from you. OtherOS, an experiance that 99% of PS3 owners never used and an experiance that still would be here if it wasn't for hackers. Your just a leech man








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If you want to 'hax' your ps3 _yourself_ fine. Do with your hardware as you want. It is _still_ illegal to distribute the method you used to others. It is _still_ illegal to buy/sell mod kits.

Geohot is nothing but a limelight whore who wants and is getting attention for his crap. Call em hackers or 'security researchers' they do not have a right to screw people, which is exactly what they are doing to PS3/X360/Wii owners.

Lets not forget that the PS3 is not the only thing that's been hacked. Until the most recent update modern warfare 2 on X360 has been highly unplayable online.



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thranx said:
ils411 said:
thranx said:
geddesmond2 said:

Will we see everyone praise these hackers when there favorite online game is unplayable because of hackers?

Everyones looking at the one thing in this case. They think Hackers are fighting for our rights. Clueless to the fact that when people bought the consol they bought it for the experiance and games Sony said it would bring them. Not for homebrew and not for piracy.

You mean they didn't buy it for the advertised otherOS function that Sony advertised and pushed. Maybe they just want to follow through on the ad campaign, I mean ps3 only does everything (that sony wants you too, andd still lets you do unless they change their mind and take it away). Sony brought this on themselves by removing features they advertised. That is why the hackers are fighting for our rights, our right to use the hardware we buy. The psn hacking and trophie hacking was not done by the people sony is sueing, so whats the point?

Trophies will soon be ruined thanks to Hackers, Online games will soon be flooded with invincible people thanks to hackers and your favorite gaming franchises have half the chances of getting sequels now because of piracy and its all thanks to these hackers.

Perhaps sony should target the people hacking those things, instead of these guys that did none of that

Hackers fighting for our rights??? Get the fuck out of here, weres my right to play games fairly that I spent 60 bucks on???

Were is my right to intall otherOS? It only does everything. These hackers did not stop you from doing anything, it was other ones why not target them?

Anyone whos on the side of these hackers seriously doesn't have a clue on what damage could be caused with all this. They think they'll get to save a few bucks and pirate some games on the sly except this whole hack Sonys trying to stop does much more than allow pirated games, it ruins legitimate peoples experiance.

Anyone on the side of sony doesn't have a clue what they will do if we have no rights. They will not let you use what you pay for how you should be able to. They will continue to remove features after launched and advertised, they may start adding maliciouse code to their disks and possibly hardware. Why trust a company like sony with their track record on these matters?

1. other OS never advertised. and its not a damn PC, its a game console! what dumbass retard buys a game console just to install otherOS? fighting for our rights?! omg! stuuupiiid!!!! if they were fighting for our rights has the other os been enabled by them again? where is it? what? none? morron! no other os but piracy is a go now. obviously you are a pirate! hence your love for this crap. what do you get for hacked consoles? the ability to play some lame ass homebrew crap game? OMG!! you have a supper ultra powerfull game machine and all you wana do with it is run ugly crapy games? HAHAHA!!! hypocrite!!! face it, you want the ps3 hacked for piracy! asshole!

2. other OS was never a right, it was an extra feature sony threwin for added value that none of us asked forand was a privelage. dumbass!

3. so, sony will not let you used the ps3 to play PS3 games?!!! OMG you are such a retard! your stupidity is all over the place...sad sad world when stupid idiots like you get to post his stupidity on the net. people as stupid and moronic as you should be banned from the net. better yet, people like you should be banned from life, dragged to the streets and shot so as to ensure that mankind has less stupid people running around.



http://www.pcworld.com/article/192731/sony_zaps_playstation_3_install_other_os_feature.html

Sony giveth and Sony taketh away: When the company's newest PlayStation 3 firmware update drops on April 1, it'll remove a beloved feature once trumpeted as a system sale-maker. That's right Linux wonks, it's time to kiss the PS3's "Install Other OS" option goodbye.

Unlike Microsoft's Xbox 360 or Nintendo's Wii, the PS3 shipped with an option to run "other" operating systems, including popular Linux distributions from Debian, Fedora, OpenSUSE and Ubuntu. The "slim" model PS3 (CEH-2000) that appeared in September 2009 debuted without this feature, but Sony exempted older "fat" PS3s.

Until next Thursday, that is. When Sony's PS3 firmware update 3.21 debuts on April 1, it'll disable the "Install Other OS" feature on millions of older systems. While you don't have to install the update, opting out will bar access to the PlayStation Network, newer games and Blu-ray movies, copyright-protected videos streamed from a media server, and any other new features in firmware version 3.21 forward.

Sony's spin goes something like this: By removing the feature, the company says it "will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system."

Translation: You get something you already have ("access to [a] broad range of gaming" etc.) in trade for nothing, while Sony gets to close what it now deems a hacker loophole. What's good for Sony is good for you, in other words.

Except when it's not (good for you, that is). Running Linux on the PS3 allows amateur developers to tinker with the PS3's Cell processor, Sony sanctioned, and cobble together home-baked utilities and games. It's also been used by researchers to build "discount supercomputers" to run scientific simulations that might otherwise "cost thousands of dollars." North Carolina State University professor Frank Mueller called it "$50,000 worth of computer power for a mere $5000."

The majority reaction on Sony's PlayStation blog won't surprise anyone.

"Wait...you are REMOVING a feature?" writes one user. "What's next? Removing BC from early PS3 adopters? Terrible update sony, teeeerrible," writes one user.

"This is an idiotic idea," says another. "I paid for this feature. When the console was $500 I paid for this feature. And Yes, I use this feature."

"Hey Sony, considering you are disabling half of my product (It was explicitly sold with labeling ON THE BOX that states it supports other OS installations) - Can I get half my money back?" asks a third, adding that the move is "like selling someone a table, and then breaking 2 of the legs off."

Access to the system via Linux isn't carte blanche. Sony locks out its powerful Nvidia-developed RSX graphics processor by using a hypervisor--a "virtual machine monitor" that runs the guest operating system in a secure virtualized memory space.

In January, a US hacker known for unlocking the Apple iPhone told the BBC he'd managed to crack the PS3, admitting his workaround would allow players to run pirated games as well as older PS2 software. It's not clear whether the January hack led to Sony's decision to scrap Linux support, but I'd say the timing's definitely suggestive.

In case you're wondering, Sony says this isn't an April Fool's joke. Contrast with betters like "PS3 Leap-Year-Glitch Fix Resets Space-Time Continuum," or "Nude Kratos Toggle in God of War III Update."

My condolences, PS3-Linux wonks. Niche user base or no, it's usually bad news when a company starts pulling features from its product portfolio.

"It only does everything"? Time to re-think that ad campaign, Sony.

 

I bolded the important parts. And the ironic one, boy did that backfire on them. So should we continue to let Sony(or eventually MS, Apple, etc) remove features that were advertised and than bought and paid for? That is all I wonder from you guys, I put forth my stance on it.

Have you looked on your PS3s box. Linux isn't advertised on the box. Its mentioned in the manual.  Have you ever seen an advert where Sony mentions OtherOS or Linux?? Thats impossible because there never was any. Why do you think the people trying to sue Sony over OtherOs have failed?? Because it was never advertised. If it was advertised like that then Sony would have lost straight away.



"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.." 
- Abraham Lincoln

 

Some people here need to drop the whole argument about how all of this is 'OK" because they want to protect their system. In the end their protection hurts the consumer.

Open your eyes people. You all are showing that you would give up RIGHTS of YOUR OWN PROPERTY!

 

This part of the article really troubles me too.

"Simply put, Sony claims that it's illegal for users to access their own computers in a way that Sony doesn't like. Moreover, because the CFAA has criminal as well as civil penalties, Sony is actually saying that it's a crime for users to access their own computers in a way that Sony doesn't like."

 

You support that? Come now, really? O_o



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Euphoria14 said:

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.." 
- Abraham Lincoln


WHOA! Deep man! My mind is blown....



huaxiong90 said:

@Thranx: While I totally agree Sony brought it on themselves (and even hope they lose so as to learn their lesson, and instead figure out a way to deal with this), you CANNOT say they're fighting for our rights when they published the hack on the net.

If they kept it to themselves, and maybe figured a way to bring back the advertised features without blowing the PS3's door wide open, then I can agree. But this is just wrong, because while it does bring back features Sony advertised...it also opens up game hacking and piracy, and THAT is not doing us any favors.

I agree with this, there is a lot going on here and none of it is really black and white.

Sony, as a company has the right to protect thier network/hardware from intrusion.  What I think the op is questioning is whether they have gone to far to protect that right.

In this, we all have a vested interest!  If Sony wins rights that severly limit our ability to "use" something you buy (even if you define use as trying to break it), your freeedom has been lessened, and that is not something that anyone should take lightly.

This does NOW however exclude the original hacker(s) from culpability though, they are equally at fault for causing the issue in the first place.  That is, IMO personal use should not extend to diseminating the knowledge for breaking a system for others to take advantage of (though there is gray here too).

So where is the truth in the gray area?  I'm not claiming to know, but everyone's approach should be more of a "lets find out more information" then woodenly decalring one party ast the "good" guy and one as the "bad".