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Forums - Sales - PS3 outpaces x360 in GTA IV pre-orders on amazon.com

andersonalex said:

Sony has a major problem when it comes to 3rd party support. The 360 has reached a critical number of users - enough so that developers want to have their games available on that platform. Making a game that's exclusive for the PS3 doesn't make sense, because you eliminate all of those 360 owners. You would end up spending more development dollars optimizing a game for PS3's unique architecture, and you'd end up being able to sell your game to fewer customers.

Leveraging the PS3's power requires developers to learn a new way of programming, one heavily centered on parallel processing. In the beginning people assumed that it would just be a matter of time before PS3 programmers learned how to work with it, but that once they did, we'd start to see games looking much better on the PS3 than their counterparts on the 360. However, what we didn't consider was that making a game that truly took advantage of the PS3 would in turn make it a completely new development effort to port to the 360 (or PC). The two architectures are so different that to really take advantage of the hardware for both, you'd have to greatly increase the money and time you spend on a title. And in the end, you really wouldn't get enough extra money out of it to be worth it.

So what's the solution? Well, thus far it seems to be this: develop your games using the traditional programming techniques that work well with the 360 and PC's, and then port the code as directly as possible to the PS3, using only its main processor to handle the game. The PS3 is fast enough to handle this relatively well, though not quite as well as the 360. This is I believe why we're seeing games like Madden and now Orange Box coming to PS3 with the same graphics but poorer performance than the 360. It's the easiest, least expensive way for the developers to get 90% of the way there without greatly increasing their money and time expenditures.

At this point, most major developers have no interest in seeing the PS3 gain a dominant market share. In the end it could only mean they would have to spend more money on their own development without actually bringing in more money as a result. They're going to be very content with programming their games to be as portable across as many platforms as possible, and that means staying away from the platform-exclusive programming techniques that PS3 really requires to take advantage of its power.


I could have sworn that more market share would result in higher sales for games (depending on the game of course). Am I confused?

Anyway, to your entire post, I rebutt with, exclusivity sells consoles. Check back to 2001 when FFX and MGS2 came out. And also, a more polished and complete game will also garner sales. Sure, it would cost more to optimize for the PS3, but if the PS3 gets the best version due to that optimization, wouldn't that sway users into buying it? Don't talk about Madden and the Orange Box, because EA has proven time and time again that they can't code for the PS3 worth shit.



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boilermaker11 said:

I could have sworn that more market share would result in higher sales for games (depending on the game of course). Am I confused?

Anyway, to your entire post, I rebutt with, exclusivity sells consoles. Check back to 2001 when FFX and MGS2 came out. And also, a more polished and complete game will also garner sales. Sure, it would cost more to optimize for the PS3, but if the PS3 gets the best version due to that optimization, wouldn't that sway users into buying it? Don't talk about Madden and the Orange Box, because EA has proven time and time again that they can't code for the PS3 worth shit.


 If you're saying that my post somehow states that higher market share doesn't result in more sales for games, then yes, you are confused. Regardless of whether PS3 or 360 has more sales, at this point in time, it's very clear that BOTH systems have too many users to exclude them from your plans if you are a developer working on a $30 million game. Why limit yourself to only a fraction of the market?

 The idea that "exclusivity sells consoles" is not a rebuttal to my post, nor is it at odds with what I have said. My point was simply that, with the 360 market being too large to ignore (regardless of whether it ends up being bigger or smaller than the PS3 market), system exclusive development is NOT going to be the path taken by the big developers. They're going to make their games for multiple systems whenever possible. This isn't just a guess - it's clear that it's already happening.

You talk about making the PS3 version better so that it will sell better than its 360 counterpart. Well, it should be fairly obvious why developers aren't doing that... they would be spending a ton of extra money so that they can better compete with THEMSELVES. Multi-platform developers have no interest in seeing the majority of their users move to PS3 (if anything, they'd probably prefer the 360 to dominate, as it would simplify their development even farther). And they certainly have no interest in making their games compete against themselves by pumping millions more into each title.

That's where the 90% comes in. If a company can build a game for the 360 and port it "directly" to the PS3 so that it's 90% as good on that platform, it doesn't make sense to spend millions more to go back and optimize it for the PS3 so that it matches the 360 version exactly. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to pump an even greater amount into really making the title take advantage of the PS3, including new art assets, programming, etc., when doing so will not increase your sales on that platform a proportional amount. Making two entirely different implementations of the same game for 2 different systems does not make smart business sense, and that's why companies aren't doing it.

EA has some of the best programmers in the world. It isn't that their programmers are incapable of making these games work well on the PS3. It's simply that it doesn't make smart business sense to spend the extra time and money it would take to do it. If you're a programmer, then you should appreciate that writing for these platforms takes very different design strategies. Fortunately for these companies, they can make the PS3 pretend to be a 360 and cut their costs while losing only a small amount of performance (and sales).

 

 



andersonalex said:

Sony has a major problem when it comes to 3rd party support. The 360 has reached a critical number of users - enough so that developers want to have their games available on that platform. Making a game that's exclusive for the PS3 doesn't make sense, because you eliminate all of those 360 owners. You would end up spending more development dollars optimizing a game for PS3's unique architecture, and you'd end up being able to sell your game to fewer customers.

Leveraging the PS3's power requires developers to learn a new way of programming, one heavily centered on parallel processing. In the beginning people assumed that it would just be a matter of time before PS3 programmers learned how to work with it, but that once they did, we'd start to see games looking much better on the PS3 than their counterparts on the 360. However, what we didn't consider was that making a game that truly took advantage of the PS3 would in turn make it a completely new development effort to port to the 360 (or PC). The two architectures are so different that to really take advantage of the hardware for both, you'd have to greatly increase the money and time you spend on a title. And in the end, you really wouldn't get enough extra money out of it to be worth it.

So what's the solution? Well, thus far it seems to be this: develop your games using the traditional programming techniques that work well with the 360 and PC's, and then port the code as directly as possible to the PS3, using only its main processor to handle the game. The PS3 is fast enough to handle this relatively well, though not quite as well as the 360. This is I believe why we're seeing games like Madden and now Orange Box coming to PS3 with the same graphics but poorer performance than the 360. It's the easiest, least expensive way for the developers to get 90% of the way there without greatly increasing their money and time expenditures.

At this point, most major developers have no interest in seeing the PS3 gain a dominant market share. In the end it could only mean they would have to spend more money on their own development without actually bringing in more money as a result. They're going to be very content with programming their games to be as portable across as many platforms as possible, and that means staying away from the platform-exclusive programming techniques that PS3 really requires to take advantage of its power.


Good Post! <- but I also think Dolla's baby seal post are good post, so it doesn't mean much.

@ boilermaker

Wasn't it EA who wanted just 1 console... What if EA decided to take things in its own hands and stop making PS3 ports?? PS3 sales in NA would drop. (or vice versa if 360 was dropped). EA would cut their cost down because it would only need to sell one version, and it would make the maximum amount of profit from everyone owning the same console.

No one says exclusives don't sell consoles, he just saying exclusives on the PS3 will sell less then exclusive on the 360 and that it would be hard for developers to ignore the bigger market.

 



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