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Forums - Microsoft - KiRRoDct!

Alby_da_Wolf said:
twesterm said:

And stories like that is why I don't read VGChartz news.  Seriously guys, just because an older 360 RRoD's and it had Kinect, that doesn't mean Kinect caused it.  You could only possibly try to draw that conclusion if the RRoD wasn't a big issue before Kinect.

I thought we at least had someone to quickly scan stories so jokes like that didn't end up on the site or are we just trolling for hits on the news site now?

-edit-

And none of that was directed at the OP, that was pretty much all directed on whoever wrote the article and whoever approved the article.

Seriously, at least try to give the news site some integrity.

Yep, the issue is actually exclusively with old surviving boxes, whatever CPU intensive application could deal them the death blow anytime.

I was wondering, though, how much would it cost MS to do a recall on the surviving units at risk, and definitively solve the problem: car manufacturers routinely do it, with costs a lot higher and having to deal with profit margins a lot lower on their products, particularly now that MS has cheap and reliable mobos and components available. And so, if it's feasible, I guess that choosing just Ballmer in the company to blame for not doing it could be not so far stretched, after all he's the greedy one that a few years ago cut benefits to the most profitable employees in the world...

Do you mean like Sony did with the PS1 and PS2?  Can you actually name a console manufacturer that has had a recall like that?



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Fail thread title man, It would be better if it was like RRODnect :}, It's not just your neck on the line while you're playing kinect, Your Xbox 360 as well... :P



NotStan said:

So if I make someone play PS3 without a break, food, water toilet breaks etc and they end up dying, I can blame it on the PS3? It's just a coincidence, if Kinect got RROD ON Kinect then yeah it's a big deal, other than that, it's just news that is blown out of proportion by extremely flamebait prone journalism.


It must be said that the article itself is more balanced than its shock title, although IMVHO the author could have written even more clearly that with the older XB360 models still surviving, WHATEVER HW intensive application can deal the death blow, it's just matter of thermal stress on some brittle solders.

Obviously, HW intensive games if successful and played for long sessions too concur to increase the probability that a RRoD happens just using them, with their respective peaks in the periods when they are most successful, and, as I expected, if you google you'll find a lot of links about RRoD and Black Ops, almost as many as RRoD and Kinect, for example, while you'll find very few about Qubed and RRoD. So, while Kinect and Black Ops are innocent, MS isn't. Kinect didn't ask for this, MS instead did. So I agree with you that it would be fair to blame just the culprit. But being fair would be less beneficial for teh LULZ, so we'll have to live with it, waiting for the next presumed guilty to oust Kinect and Black Ops down from the throne.    And if you ask me, "Raving Rabbids cause RRoDs" would give me a lot more LULZ!   



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Kissinger said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
RolStoppable said:

Y'know, things break.

What you wrote just made me realize that with Kinect you can break a XB360 without actually touching it!  That's psychic! Creepy!! Scary!!!  :-O


You seem to be getting way too excited over this.  Are you going to be one of those people claiming everyone is buying a replacement 360 in the next NPD thread?


No. It would be ludicrous, particularly during Xmas, and were it the case there would be an avalanche of lawsuits and class actions against MS, not millions people quietly replacing faulty units at their own expenses. I clearly wrote that I agree that the issue is with old at risk units still surviving, Kinect (but also Black Ops for example), just happen to be very successful right now, so in this period a RRoD is more likely to happen using them



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Kissinger said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
twesterm said:

And stories like that is why I don't read VGChartz news.  Seriously guys, just because an older 360 RRoD's and it had Kinect, that doesn't mean Kinect caused it.  You could only possibly try to draw that conclusion if the RRoD wasn't a big issue before Kinect.

I thought we at least had someone to quickly scan stories so jokes like that didn't end up on the site or are we just trolling for hits on the news site now?

-edit-

And none of that was directed at the OP, that was pretty much all directed on whoever wrote the article and whoever approved the article.

Seriously, at least try to give the news site some integrity.

Yep, the issue is actually exclusively with old surviving boxes, whatever CPU intensive application could deal them the death blow anytime.

I was wondering, though, how much would it cost MS to do a recall on the surviving units at risk, and definitively solve the problem: car manufacturers routinely do it, with costs a lot higher and having to deal with profit margins a lot lower on their products, particularly now that MS has cheap and reliable mobos and components available. And so, if it's feasible, I guess that choosing just Ballmer in the company to blame for not doing it could be not so far stretched, after all he's the greedy one that a few years ago cut benefits to the most profitable employees in the world...

Do you mean like Sony did with the PS1 and PS2?  Can you actually name a console manufacturer that has had a recall like that?

None ever did. But none ever had a reliability issue so serious, widespread and lasting for so long before getting a definitive solution, and dealing a blow so hard to their reputation. I remember optical drive reliability problems in early Playstations, 1, 2 and 3, but fault rate was never as high as the first XB360 units and fault rate was quickly brought back to slightly better than industry average, while Nintendo enjoys a reliability far better than average, for example. RRoDs will continue until every vulnerable unit will be dead, MS has a quite fair extended warranty policy that solves the problem after it happens, but only a recall could prevent it and solve it definitively. Maybe, it's just matter of waiting for the remaining units to replace being few enough and the cost to fix them low enough to make the image return high enough for MS to consider the deal advantageous...



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


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Alby_da_Wolf said:
Kissinger said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
twesterm said:

And stories like that is why I don't read VGChartz news.  Seriously guys, just because an older 360 RRoD's and it had Kinect, that doesn't mean Kinect caused it.  You could only possibly try to draw that conclusion if the RRoD wasn't a big issue before Kinect.

I thought we at least had someone to quickly scan stories so jokes like that didn't end up on the site or are we just trolling for hits on the news site now?

-edit-

And none of that was directed at the OP, that was pretty much all directed on whoever wrote the article and whoever approved the article.

Seriously, at least try to give the news site some integrity.

Yep, the issue is actually exclusively with old surviving boxes, whatever CPU intensive application could deal them the death blow anytime.

I was wondering, though, how much would it cost MS to do a recall on the surviving units at risk, and definitively solve the problem: car manufacturers routinely do it, with costs a lot higher and having to deal with profit margins a lot lower on their products, particularly now that MS has cheap and reliable mobos and components available. And so, if it's feasible, I guess that choosing just Ballmer in the company to blame for not doing it could be not so far stretched, after all he's the greedy one that a few years ago cut benefits to the most profitable employees in the world...

Do you mean like Sony did with the PS1 and PS2?  Can you actually name a console manufacturer that has had a recall like that?

None ever did. But none ever had a reliability issue so serious, widespread and lasting for so long before getting a definitive solution, and dealing a blow so hard to their reputation. I remember optical drive reliability problems in early Playstations, 1, 2 and 3, but fault rate was never as high as the first XB360 units and fault rate was quickly brought back to slightly better than industry average, while Nintendo enjoys a reliability far better than average, for example. RRoDs will continue until every vulnerable unit will be dead, MS has a quite fair extended warranty policy that solves the problem after it happens, but only a recall could prevent it and solve it definitively. Maybe, it's just matter of waiting for the remaining units to replace being few enough and the cost to fix them low enough to make the image return high enough for MS to consider the deal advantageous...


I've seen many broken PS2s in my time (I'm beginning to think that the Wii has almost surpassed the PS2 in real installed base since so many PS2s have been replacement units).  At least Microsoft eventually offered a 3 year warranty unlike Sony doing nothing about the problem.



Well, Kinect has been quite successful, which means a lot of people have bought it. That means a lot of people is using it. So the probability that some of the 360's will go RROD is higher. Is not Kinect, is the fact that more people are using their 360's, most of them with kinect.

It surprised me someone can catalogue this as "news" it happens all the time when a popular game enters the market.



Kissinger said:

[...]

I've seen many broken PS2s in my time (I'm beginning to think that the Wii has almost surpassed the PS2 in real installed base since so many PS2s have been replacement units).  At least Microsoft eventually offered a 3 year warranty unlike Sony doing nothing about the problem.

Yes, I remember them, but the problem was never as widespread as RRoD in the first XB360 models, and the final PS2 fault rate slightly better than industry average means that later model reliability balanced the first ones.  I guess that EU imposing a 2 years warranty also helped Sony to avoid losing the image it gained here, a 1 year only warranty during that issue would have brought a lot more damages to it. The big difference between PS2 and XB360 reliability issues is another, though: with PS2 there was initially just an higher fault rate, due to batches of poor average quality drives, for example, and batches of PS2 using batches of components of poor average quality had higher failure rate, but even in bad batches many units not getting the worst components could expect an acceptable lifetime, while in XB360 it's a design issue, so every early unit has a sword of Damocles over its head, every early unit uses a brittle solder alloy and a mobo that has wide deformations with heat, each thermal stress can be the one that eventually cracks a solder, on every old unit without exceptions: it's a reliability problem that will be present and a brand image problem that will have no end until there will be vulnerable units around. But again, I must say that looking at statistics, Nintendo quality and reliability is the best, not even Sony at its best can compete.

Anyhow, we agree at least that it's not Kinect's fault.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:
Chairman-Mao said:

Way to make a thread about a news headline posted on vgchartz. 

News comments aren't very practical, they aren't listed in the recent posts menu, you can't quote other posts, etc... News are good for reading the news themselves, but discussing them is handier on forums.

And it was just matter of time before someone else started a discussion about it in a far more trollish way, while, despite amused, I tried to troll only Ballmer!   


Yeah good point, the forums are wayyyy better than the comments section of news articles.



Considering there wasn't a general uproar and both Kinect and XB360 sales keep on being excellent, it's quite likely that most victims are informed enough to blame XB360 and not Kinect, and also that the current failure rate is the usual  amongst the surviving old vulnerable units (maybe higher than in other periods due to the bigger time available for gaming during Xmas holidays and the mass of new games  to try, but not unusual compared to previous holidays). And quite obviously, Kinect with its games and Black Ops, being the most successful on XB360 this Xmas, are currently the most likely to be running when a RRoD happens. Still an image problem for MS, but it shouldn't be for Kinect or Black Ops, weren't it for the fact that people will keep on associating RRoDs with whatever will be running when they happen.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!