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Forums - General - How Can Someone Like Dostoyevsky, But Not Like "Twilight"?

NotStan said:

I am torn between what's a bigger insult to literature, Harry Potter series or the Twilight series, both are mediocre foundation English yet sell like hotcakes. Just goes to show the product does not necessarily has to be good to sell well.. I have hopes for my "stick on a string" idea.


I don't think they're really an insult to literature, as they do not directly compete with good novels. Maybe they helped the good side of the market by training millions of youngsters to read.



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fighter said:
jacks81x said:

The fact that Twilight is as popular as it is should tell you what garbage it is.  With each new generation, the mainstream audience is becoming less and less cultured and sophisticated.  The more shallow and trashy the content, the more the mainstream audience suck it up nowadays.  If you were to randomly poll the average American today, I bet most of them can't tell you who Dostoyevsky is.  

Mainstream audience has never been cultured and sophisticated. Don't listen to your parents, their generation is not better than ours in any way.

From what I have seen, the popularity of "cultured and sophisticated" works tend to be on a cycle related to the medium or genre; and (periodically) will see a resurgence in popularity, often driven by the popularity of the success of a crossover production.

To understand what I mean I'll try to use an example. I haven't seen the numbers (so I could be wrong) but I suspect that the massive popularity of singing and dancing shows on television, and the popularity of products like the high school musical series and Glee, has probably dramatically increased interest in musical theatre, opera, and classical dancing; and the release of the right product at this point in time could push these "cultured and sophisticated" works into mainstream acceptance (for a short period of time). Eventually, the combination of too many low quality products being released to capitalize on this wave and the short attention spans of the mainstream audience will ensure that this wave of popularity rapidly returns to its starting point.



Personally, I don't like Twilight. I was forced to read the books by my ex girlfriend. (In case you're wondering, Twilight is a part of the reason we aren't together. And I've never been happier to not be with anyone.) 

First, the good. I found the history and the concept to be very interesting. There's a lot of potential history that could be explored, that could be done very well, and the concept itself is interesting, I think. 

The execution is just flat out awful. First off, Mrs. Meyer, we get that Bella is plain. Thanks for telling us a billion freaking times in the first book alone. Second, if Bella is so plain, why are there multiple (5 or something) guys who are all described as insanely hot attracted to her, and competing for her attention?

Third, Edward is a fucking creep. He says that he's been staring at her in her sleep for months. He likes the way she smells. Basically, he's a stalker. Fourth, Jacob. He is the biggest douche ever. I say that because, however much I dislike Edward and Bella (who are NOT in love), he's still trying to get in Bella's pants, knowing that she's with Edward. I hate guys like that. Well, that's personal experience. Being cheated on sucks. But still. I hate Jacob. 

Fifth, Edward and Bella. THEY ARE NOT IN LOVE. Edward thinks she smells nice and wants to suck her blood. Bella thinks he's the most attractive guy on the planet, and he's all mysterious or some crap like that. That's called lust. They spend the entire series wanting to fuck each other's brains out. Then they do. And have a mutant baby (how does Edward even get it up?!). 

Sixth. Renesme. Seriously? Really? You could at least throw a bunch of Scrabble pieces around and get something less retarded than that. 

Seventh. The writing. I'm not going to pretend like I'm a great author, but I sure as hell know Stephanie Meyer isn't one. Half of the series consists of Bella is plain. Edward is hot and his skin is cold. Jacob is hot and his skin is burning hot. The end. 

I could go on and on... I have, actually. For nine pages. Comparing HP, Twilight, and The Eye of Argon. Here's an excerpt: "To start, Bella loves to whine. Really, she does. She does it every time she thinks Edward might leave her. And with all the talk of her being plain, she sure is popular with all the guys. She had what, 4 or 5 after her at one time? Yeah, plain. Oh, and another problem I had with Bella is that she's pretty emo. Seriously, when the book starts, she's crying for no reason. Seriously. No. Reason. I'd list a redeeming feature, but she doesn't have any. She's just a terrible person."

 If you want a piece of crap that's entertaining, read The Eye of Argon. That's some good quality entertainment. 

As for HP... I think they're written much better than Twilight (not that that's saying much). I find the history/concept to be very interesting, and I really enjoy the books. 



@insomniac17:

I was forced to read the books by my ex girlfriend. (In case you're wondering, Twilight is a part of the reason we aren't together. And I've never been happier to not be with anyone.)

LOL, I should tell my cousin that Twilight can ruin relationships. Maybe that will get her to forget about it. Honestly, I don't blame you for leaving her. I don't think I could date a girl who GENUENLY thinks Twilight is a good book.

First off, Mrs. Meyer, we get that Bella is plain. Thanks for telling us a billion freaking times in the first book alone. Second, if Bella is so plain, why are there multiple (5 or something) guys who are all described as insanely hot attracted to her, and competing for her attention?

Yeah, that's bad writing right htere. Then again Bella is a Mary Sue type, so it's no wonder every guy likes her.

Third, Edward is a fucking creep. He says that he's been staring at her in her sleep for months. He likes the way she smells. Basically, he's a stalker.

Definately agree with this one. I mean, do girls really like it when guys stalk them. I thought that the whole "they're asking for it" was just a myth.

Bella thinks he's the most attractive guy on the planet, and he's all mysterious or some crap like that. That's called lust. 

Well, if there's one good thing about this book, is that it shows that girls can lust after guys and actually want sex too. Typicallly girls are presented as being uninterested in sex.

I could go on and on... I have, actually. For nine pages. Comparing HP, Twilight, and The Eye of Argon.

Wow, can you give a link to that post?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:

@insomniac17:

I was forced to read the books by my ex girlfriend. (In case you're wondering, Twilight is a part of the reason we aren't together. And I've never been happier to not be with anyone.)

LOL, I should tell my cousin that Twilight can ruin relationships. Maybe that will get her to forget about it. Honestly, I don't blame you for leaving her. I don't think I could date a girl who GENUENLY thinks Twilight is a good book.

First off, Mrs. Meyer, we get that Bella is plain. Thanks for telling us a billion freaking times in the first book alone. Second, if Bella is so plain, why are there multiple (5 or something) guys who are all described as insanely hot attracted to her, and competing for her attention?

Yeah, that's bad writing right htere. Then again Bella is a Mary Sue type, so it's no wonder every guy likes her.

Third, Edward is a fucking creep. He says that he's been staring at her in her sleep for months. He likes the way she smells. Basically, he's a stalker.

Definately agree with this one. I mean, do girls really like it when guys stalk them. I thought that the whole "they're asking for it" was just a myth.

Bella thinks he's the most attractive guy on the planet, and he's all mysterious or some crap like that. That's called lust. 

Well, if there's one good thing about this book, is that it shows that girls can lust after guys and actually want sex too. Typicallly girls are presented as being uninterested in sex.

I could go on and on... I have, actually. For nine pages. Comparing HP, Twilight, and The Eye of Argon.

Wow, can you give a link to that post?

I actually don't remember where I posted it. I do have it saved on my laptop though. Turns out the whole thing was about 5 pages, rather than 9. Still, it's a decent summary of why I think Twilight sucks (with random comparisons).



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SHMUPGurus said:
What I get from Twilight is this: the girl can decide between "having fun" with an emo vampire, or a hot werewolf.

I hope I'm wrong.

From what I understand, the vampire and werewolf are both hot.  And possibly both emo.  The main difference is body temperature.  She can have one in summer and the other in winter, like air conditioning only it's her love slaves. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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HappySqurriel said:
[...] you're correct that every author has taken liberties with vampires (as authors do with all subjects) but (from my very limited understanding) Stephenie Meyer has changed so much about "vampires" that they are no longer recognizable; or (at least) that is what I have heard argued (I haven't read the books or watched the movies, and all I know about it is from what others have said).

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the "real crime" Stephenie Meyer committed was simply not integrating her "vampires" with vampire legends in a purposeful way. If/when an author breaks with tradition and their audience understands the point of their changes (possibly to make something more modern or realistic) they tend not to mind those changes; but when these changes are unexplained (or poorly explained) and serve little/no purpose within the story people get very upset.

I've been exposed to a considerable amount of secondhand information (a surprisingly good fanfic that basically tries to imagine Twilight if Bella had a completely different, and interesting, mind), so I think I can make a reasonable attempt to talk about Twilight vampires (AKA "sparklepires") versus more traditional vampires. 

Traditional vampires drink human blood; sparklepires can drink any blood but like human blood better. 
Vampires and sparklepires are both physically superior to humans, immortal, cold to the touch, and unnaturally attractive.  Sparklepires are MORE superpowered. 
Both can also convert humans into beings like themselves. 

That is the sum total of the similarities between the two as far as I can recall at the moment.  (Sparklepires don't need to breathe and have no heartbeat but I don't know about vampires.) 

A short list of differences (not necessarily comprehensive): 
Vampires: 
Die in sunlight
Hate garlic
Have no reflection
Can't cross moving water
Can be killed by wood stake through heart but beheading also does the trick
Can take form of bat or maybe wolf or mist

Sparklepires: 
Sparkle in sunlight
Don't like food in general but have no particular aversions
Have consistency roughly that of stone? 
Can die only by fire (if you tear them to pieces they can reassemble themselves)
Red eyes if drink human blood, gold eyes if animal blood, black eyes if hungry
Can father but not mother children
Conversion process consists of three days of pain utterly indescribable except that it feels like burning

And this isn't even getting into the werewolves.  But let me say this:  there are TWO very different types of werewolves in Twilight.  One of them -- the one they don't see much/any of -- is the traditional type of werewolf. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

UNNNNNNNNfortunately I am cursed with having a whole bevvy of female acquaintances, family members and even, dare I say it, friends who get wet panties from Twilight. Yet they are otherwise highly educated, and well read people. I can't understand how these people, including vociferous feminists, can overlook the deplorably socially backwards subtexts in this series and be sucked in to the hopelessly syrupy, awfully superficial romance. Not to mention the averageness of the writing itself. And these women are shameless in their adoration for this garbage, even admitting it's utter low-browness. I read the first book because my wife demanded it, but I refuse to read any others and the movies are banned from my house.

This is destined to end up on the garbage heap of fiction. I just wish I didn't have to witness first hand the brief period in which it so captivates a generation of women who should know better and girls who ought to have a better quality of female fictional role model.

Looney Lovegood is a better girl from which to draw inspiration than the Twilight girl.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Final-Fan said:

I've been exposed to a considerable amount of secondhand information (a surprisingly good fanfic that basically tries to imagine Twilight if Bella had a completely different, and interesting, mind), so I think I can make a reasonable attempt to talk about Twilight vampires (AKA "sparklepires") versus more traditional vampires. 

Traditional vampires drink human blood; sparklepires can drink any blood but like human blood better. 
Vampires and sparklepires are both physically superior to humans, immortal, cold to the touch, and unnaturally attractive.  Sparklepires are MORE superpowered. 
Both can also convert humans into beings like themselves. 

That is the sum total of the similarities between the two as far as I can recall at the moment.  (Sparklepires don't need to breathe and have no heartbeat but I don't know about vampires.) 

A short list of differences (not necessarily comprehensive): 
Vampires: 
Die in sunlight
Hate garlic
Have no reflection
Can't cross moving water
Can be killed by wood stake through heart but beheading also does the trick
Can take form of bat or maybe wolf or mist

Sparklepires: 
Sparkle in sunlight
Don't like food in general but have no particular aversions
Have consistency roughly that of stone? 
Can die only by fire (if you tear them to pieces they can reassemble themselves)
Red eyes if drink human blood, gold eyes if animal blood, black eyes if hungry
Can father but not mother children
Conversion process consists of three days of pain utterly indescribable except that it feels like burning

And this isn't even getting into the werewolves.  But let me say this:  there are TWO very different types of werewolves in Twilight.  One of them -- the one they don't see much/any of -- is the traditional type of werewolf. 

Can female vampires also "father" children? Also, this sounds very sexist (then again the author of the books is a mormon, so that's not a surprise).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

binary solo said:

UNNNNNNNNfortunately I am cursed with having a whole bevvy of female acquaintances, family members and even, dare I say it, friends who get wet panties from Twilight. Yet they are otherwise highly educated, and well read people. I can't understand how these people, including vociferous feminists, can overlook the deplorably socially backwards subtexts in this series and be sucked in to the hopelessly syrupy, awfully superficial romance. Not to mention the averageness of the writing itself. And these women are shameless in their adoration for this garbage, even admitting it's utter low-browness. I read the first book because my wife demanded it, but I refuse to read any others and the movies are banned from my house.

This is destined to end up on the garbage heap of fiction. I just wish I didn't have to witness first hand the brief period in which it so captivates a generation of women who should know better and girls who ought to have a better quality of female fictional role model.

Looney Lovegood is a better girl from which to draw inspiration than the Twilight girl.

The sad part is tah there are people (like my cousin) who genuenly think these boos are GOOD literature!!! Visit the sites goodreads.com and shelfari.com. You'll see that people over there rated Twilight over 4 stars!!!

Also, I've met men who for some strange reason like those books (granted, the guy's gay).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)