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Forums - Sales - Square Enix in trouble - time for Sony make a move?

Rob-Ot on 19 December 2010
VoiceofReason said:
Rob-Ot said:
darkknightkryta said:
Rob-Ot said:
huaxiong90 said:
dahuman said:

I feel no sympathy towards Square-Enix these days, they've just been latching on their past successes and not doing much these days tbh.

I honestly want to understand how this is so...I mean, to me, it seems like they're TRYING to achieve global appeal, but they're doing it completely wrong.

I don't even know where they are trying to achieve global appeal, I hear so many people saying they are westernizing their games, but I don't see it. The most westernized game to come out Square-Enix was Final Fantasy XII, its been 4 years since that came out.

Replacing the ending theme of Final Fantasy XIII with Leona Lewis was one thing that came to mind.  Not sure if it was directly stated but getting rid of towns and stuff from FInal Fantasy XIII was to "appeal to western audiences" though that was probably hinted if anything.  The biggest thing is everything that comes out of Wada's mouth.

Adding a english song at the end isn't "westernization". Taking towns out isn't either, I mean have the clowns at Square-Enix seen Western RPG's this generation? If anything FFXIII was most similar to FFX in structure (apart from Towns), I really don't see how it was meant to appeal to the West, because FFXIII is as Japanese as it gets from its art style, characters to even its dialogue. Perhaps they said its meant to appeal to the West to desparately try to make an excuse for the linearity. As the original FFXIII for PS2 was planned to be pretty non-linear (with even a cocoon world map I believe), moving the game to PS3 and the terrible development process (that we spoke about in the other thread) is what led to a linear structure being formed.

FFXIII was really dumbed down and linearized, it basically took all strategy out of the game in favor of making things look cool and fast, and killed any possible exploration which even FFX had quite a bit of 

How is that westernizing though, its really not. The word is casualizing, even then FFXIII isn't an easy game at all so they failed there too. And not all startegy was taken out, some of the bosses in the game and hunts needed strategy, especially if you wanted 5 stars. However mediocre FFXIII was, the battle system was a saving grace.



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Shorty11857 on 19 December 2010

I don't know why people are saying Square Enix are in problem, they cut a PROFIT forecast as in they're still making profit, which pretty much means they're better off than the vast majority of the industry. I mean they're set to make a profit in a year where they released no big games and had a massive flop; if they can make profit this year then they're pretty much the opposite of "in trouble"



Rob-Ot on 19 December 2010
Shorty11857 said:

I don't know why people are saying Square Enix are in problem, they cut a PROFIT forecast as in they're still making profit, which pretty much means they're better off than the vast majority of the industry. I mean they're set to make a profit in a year where they released no big games and had a massive flop; if they can make profit this year then they're pretty much the opposite of "in trouble"


I think they mean the losses are increasing by 90%, thats why the Opening Post says they are in trouble.



Shorty11857 on 19 December 2010
Rob-Ot said:
Shorty11857 said:

I don't know why people are saying Square Enix are in problem, they cut a PROFIT forecast as in they're still making profit, which pretty much means they're better off than the vast majority of the industry. I mean they're set to make a profit in a year where they released no big games and had a massive flop; if they can make profit this year then they're pretty much the opposite of "in trouble"


I think they mean the losses are increasing by 90%, thats why the Opening Post says they are in trouble.

They didn't though, they cut their profit forecast down by 90% meaning they still made money

http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/20101216_E_FINAL.pdf

So I really don't see how they're hurting that much, I mean FFXIV was the only major game that released this year so the fact that they're still making a profit is amazing



Rob-Ot on 19 December 2010
Shorty11857 said:
Rob-Ot said:
Shorty11857 said:

I don't know why people are saying Square Enix are in problem, they cut a PROFIT forecast as in they're still making profit, which pretty much means they're better off than the vast majority of the industry. I mean they're set to make a profit in a year where they released no big games and had a massive flop; if they can make profit this year then they're pretty much the opposite of "in trouble"


I think they mean the losses are increasing by 90%, thats why the Opening Post says they are in trouble.

They didn't though, they cut their profit forecast down by 90% meaning they still made money

http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/20101216_E_FINAL.pdf

So I really don't see how they're hurting that much, I mean FFXIV was the only major game that released this year so the fact that they're still making a profit is amazing

Oh so they are still going to make a profit this year?

In that case this thread is a joke, do people realize its a big achievement to even make a profit in these times for a games developer. I'm sorry I didn't know they were still going to make a profit.



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VoiceofReason on 19 December 2010
Rob-Ot said:
VoiceofReason said:
Rob-Ot said:
darkknightkryta said:
Rob-Ot said:
huaxiong90 said:
dahuman said:

I feel no sympathy towards Square-Enix these days, they've just been latching on their past successes and not doing much these days tbh.

I honestly want to understand how this is so...I mean, to me, it seems like they're TRYING to achieve global appeal, but they're doing it completely wrong.

I don't even know where they are trying to achieve global appeal, I hear so many people saying they are westernizing their games, but I don't see it. The most westernized game to come out Square-Enix was Final Fantasy XII, its been 4 years since that came out.

Replacing the ending theme of Final Fantasy XIII with Leona Lewis was one thing that came to mind.  Not sure if it was directly stated but getting rid of towns and stuff from FInal Fantasy XIII was to "appeal to western audiences" though that was probably hinted if anything.  The biggest thing is everything that comes out of Wada's mouth.

Adding a english song at the end isn't "westernization". Taking towns out isn't either, I mean have the clowns at Square-Enix seen Western RPG's this generation? If anything FFXIII was most similar to FFX in structure (apart from Towns), I really don't see how it was meant to appeal to the West, because FFXIII is as Japanese as it gets from its art style, characters to even its dialogue. Perhaps they said its meant to appeal to the West to desparately try to make an excuse for the linearity. As the original FFXIII for PS2 was planned to be pretty non-linear (with even a cocoon world map I believe), moving the game to PS3 and the terrible development process (that we spoke about in the other thread) is what led to a linear structure being formed.

FFXIII was really dumbed down and linearized, it basically took all strategy out of the game in favor of making things look cool and fast, and killed any possible exploration which even FFX had quite a bit of 

How is that westernizing though, its really not. The word is casualizing, even then FFXIII isn't an easy game at all so they failed there too. And not all startegy was taken out, some of the bosses in the game and hunts needed strategy, especially if you wanted 5 stars. However mediocre FFXIII was, the battle system was a saving grace.

You kinda made my point, the battle system wasn't good, you couldn't even control your party, it was down to luck and the fact that you like it suggests it's what the west likes and I'm sure its what square thinks the west wants how ever accurate they are, the battle system wasn't good, not by a long shot, the leveling system was worse and the lack of exploration made any thoughts of buying the game disappear, you think the game needs strategy because "some" of the bosses need one, thats pretty pathetic, even in FF7 if you didn't use some strategy with monsters at your level you would burn through items like no tomorrow and that game was petty easy too 



huaxiong90 on 19 December 2010
Rob-Ot said:
huaxiong90 said:
dahuman said:

I feel no sympathy towards Square-Enix these days, they've just been latching on their past successes and not doing much these days tbh.

I honestly want to understand how this is so...I mean, to me, it seems like they're TRYING to achieve global appeal, but they're doing it completely wrong.

I don't even know where they are trying to achieve global appeal, I hear so many people saying they are westernizing their games, but I don't see it. The most westernized game to come out Square-Enix was Final Fantasy XII, its been 4 years since that came out.

I can't see how FFXII was more westernized than FFXIII.

The funnier thing is that FFXII actually had a great story, and the battle system was fine. FFXIII, on the other, hand, the story was awful (more like wasted potential). Battle system was great, though (still could've used fine-tuning as well, though).



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

huaxiong90 on 19 December 2010
dahuman said:
huaxiong90 said:
dahuman said:

I feel no sympathy towards Square-Enix these days, they've just been latching on their past successes and not doing much these days tbh.

I honestly want to understand how this is so...I mean, to me, it seems like they're TRYING to achieve global appeal, but they're doing it completely wrong.


They screwed up FF13 with more cons than pros.

FF14............ you know the story.

KH still plays pretty much the same on every platform after a decade, Recoded is a remake of a mobile game which well, will still play the same.

They've released that buggy ass game called TLR which ironically is the best on PC while being a mostly console centric studio.

Infinite Undiscovery really?

Nier was wtf.

Crystal Bearers, I don't want to talk about it.

DQ9 is really just an OK game and fortunately sold very well in Japan.

I haven't seen one good new IP besides The World Ends with You.

If you tell me you like their FMA games, I'll beat you to death with a carrot stick.

They are only able to make decent portable games this gen for the most part, and a lot of them are also old ass IPs. Latching away~~~

Thank goodness they picked up Eidos tbh, the glory of Batman: AA and Just Cause 2 can't be denied.

oh and DQX is nowhere in sight.

 

So yeah, Incapable of making good new IP like they used to when it was still Squaresoft, can't argue against that, they were at their best duing PS1 and PS2 times. The only thing they can do is hanging on to old IPs(FF name for example) and make a lot of the same games over and over these days, they need to hire new talents and change leaderships or some shit.

In that case, I can agree.

It's just, it sounded to me like SE are just sticking to the same formula in the past years, when that's hardly the case.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Rob-Ot on 19 December 2010
huaxiong90 said:
Rob-Ot said:
huaxiong90 said:
dahuman said:

I feel no sympathy towards Square-Enix these days, they've just been latching on their past successes and not doing much these days tbh.

I honestly want to understand how this is so...I mean, to me, it seems like they're TRYING to achieve global appeal, but they're doing it completely wrong.

I don't even know where they are trying to achieve global appeal, I hear so many people saying they are westernizing their games, but I don't see it. The most westernized game to come out Square-Enix was Final Fantasy XII, its been 4 years since that came out.

I can't see how FFXII was more westernized than FFXIII.

The funnier thing is that FFXII actually had a great story, and the battle system was fine. FFXIII, on the other, hand, the story was awful (more like wasted potential). Battle system was great, though (still could've used fine-tuning as well, though).

FFXII was more similar to a Western RPG, its dialogue and characters were more grounded, the game as a whole felt more "Western" than FFXIII as its more similar to Western RPG's than XIII. Westernization doesn't mean bad in my eyes even though I disliked XII, I felt its story was very weak actually haha. Yeah XIII's battle system was tremendous but that doesn't make a game and agreed XIII's story was the biggest wasted potential I've ever seen (the dialogue gives me nightmares...."this dampness is damp"), the whole game was wasted potential actually and the developers know this (if you saw post game interviews, they sound desperate to make a XIII-2 because they know they can do better with the setting and world they had).



huaxiong90 on 19 December 2010
Rob-Ot said:
huaxiong90 said:
Rob-Ot said:
huaxiong90 said:
dahuman said:

I feel no sympathy towards Square-Enix these days, they've just been latching on their past successes and not doing much these days tbh.

I honestly want to understand how this is so...I mean, to me, it seems like they're TRYING to achieve global appeal, but they're doing it completely wrong.

I don't even know where they are trying to achieve global appeal, I hear so many people saying they are westernizing their games, but I don't see it. The most westernized game to come out Square-Enix was Final Fantasy XII, its been 4 years since that came out.

I can't see how FFXII was more westernized than FFXIII.

The funnier thing is that FFXII actually had a great story, and the battle system was fine. FFXIII, on the other, hand, the story was awful (more like wasted potential). Battle system was great, though (still could've used fine-tuning as well, though).

FFXII was more similar to a Western RPG, its dialogue and characters were more grounded, the game as a whole felt more "Western" than FFXIII as its more similar to Western RPG's than XIII. Westernization doesn't mean bad in my eyes even though I disliked XII, I felt its story was very weak actually haha. And agreed XIII's story was the biggest wasted potential I've ever seen (the dialogue gives me nightmares...."this dampness is damp"), the whole game was wasted potential actually and the developers know this (if you saw post game interviews, they sound desperate to make a XIII-2 because they know they can do better with the setting and world they had).

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't mind that if it's done right (like Metal Gear, for example). I thought FFXII also blended Japanese concepts with Western stuff pretty well. But FFXIII...while the battle system was great, it was seriously casualized. And the dialogue, as you mentioned, was atrocious. Like it's a low budget Western movie/Fifth Gen Console game. This, along with most of what Wada's been saying in PR statements, only contributes to the fact that it sounds like they're trying to follow the example of Western companies in just about every way. And it's not helping.

The best FF story IMO is FF6. I hope, for the dev's sake, that they can fix the mistakes of FFXIII should XIII-2 come out.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!