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Forums - General - Fox News tops source of voter misinformation

Tigerlure said:
Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:

Updated with Fox's response to the article. Kind of lame if you ask me, if they feel like something is wrong, they should attack the methodology like you guys are doing (or trying to do) here, not the University it was taken at.


Yeah... I mean, I'm sure he didn't know that "Best Party Schools" fact off hand, meaning it took time to come up with.

 

The methodology is so easy to attack, why they went with a silly cheap shot is beyond me.

And just so I understand, you're criticizing the Survey on the way the questions were asked?

More so on what the questions were.

It wasn't asking "Who was the most misinformed".

It was asking "Who has the most conservative base."

Since there were no Democratic leaning or nuetral leaning questions.

Getting something wrong often has less with the way the news is presented.... and more to do with who it is presented too... like when I asked you "Did they find WMDs in iraq" and showed a link that showed they found WMDs, and your response was "They didn't find WMDs because they were old WMDs."

There was no way I could of more truthfully reported that.



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Kasz216 said:

Going over the study... a lot of the questions asked... aren't really "true or false" things.

Like "Did the stimulus legislation gain or lose jobs".

Furthermore, pretty much ALL of the questions are democratically biased... as in few are questions Liberals would get wrong vs Conservatives.

I also find in intersting that 44% of the country isn't sure Obama was born in the US according to their report as well.  That's much higher then I remember that number being, which brings up sampling issues.

 

Seems like a report specifically tailored to get the results it got.  Otherwise you'd put in a bunch of stuff Liberals are more likely to get wrong like "Did Sarah Palin say she could see Russia from her house."

This response and that of the Fox PR guy commenting is exactly what the study shows.  

FOX guy "Undergrads party there.  Therefore every professional study done there, no matter where those researchers/professors actually did THEIR studying, is inherently false and pointless."  No actual look at the information.  No judgement in any way that could have any merit or value.  But the FOX viewer (who of course would NEVER see this study in the first place because it obviously doesn't fit the narrative FOX presents) would accept that immediately and unquestioningly.  It's LIBERAL BIAS in the media!  It's the LAMESTREAM media!  It's the LIBERAL BIAS in higher education!  

 

No. It's factual information.  There's no debate about any of those questions.  None.  

 

And the WMD technicality is stupid.  We all know that those remnants are NOT what we were supposedly looking for.  

 

FOX "news" is the greatest propaganda machine ever created in this country, at least since WWII.  And most of the personalities on the network are indeed entertainers and opinion-based hosts, but they are presented as being fair and balanced and news.  And they are presenting blatantly false facts to support their opinions.  Other networks, like MSNBC also present opinion, but they don't have "news" labelled everywhere and someone like Rachel Maddow presents researchable facts to back her views.  The hosts may not always present every applicable fact if it doesn't match their storyline/opinion, but they aren't blatantly making crap up the way Hannity or Beck are on a nightly basis.



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

fastyxx said:
Kasz216 said:

Going over the study... a lot of the questions asked... aren't really "true or false" things.

Like "Did the stimulus legislation gain or lose jobs".

Furthermore, pretty much ALL of the questions are democratically biased... as in few are questions Liberals would get wrong vs Conservatives.

I also find in intersting that 44% of the country isn't sure Obama was born in the US according to their report as well.  That's much higher then I remember that number being, which brings up sampling issues.

 

Seems like a report specifically tailored to get the results it got.  Otherwise you'd put in a bunch of stuff Liberals are more likely to get wrong like "Did Sarah Palin say she could see Russia from her house."

This response and that of the Fox PR guy commenting is exactly what the study shows.  

FOX guy "Undergrads party there.  Therefore every professional study done there, no matter where those researchers/professors actually did THEIR studying, is inherently false and pointless."  No actual look at the information.  No judgement in any way that could have any merit or value.  But the FOX viewer (who of course would NEVER see this study in the first place because it obviously doesn't fit the narrative FOX presents) would accept that immediately and unquestioningly.  It's LIBERAL BIAS in the media!  It's the LAMESTREAM media!  It's the LIBERAL BIAS in higher education!  

 

No. It's factual information.  There's no debate about any of those questions.  None.  

 

And the WMD technicality is stupid.  We all know that those remnants are NOT what we were supposedly looking for.  

 

FOX "news" is the greatest propaganda machine ever created in this country, at least since WWII.  And most of the personalities on the network are indeed entertainers and opinion-based hosts, but they are presented as being fair and balanced and news.  And they are presenting blatantly false facts to support their opinions.  Other networks, like MSNBC also present opinion, but they don't have "news" labelled everywhere and someone like Rachel Maddow presents researchable facts to back her views.  The hosts may not always present every applicable fact if it doesn't match their storyline/opinion, but they aren't blatantly making crap up the way Hannity or Beck are on a nightly basis.


Just a question.  Have you ever looked at a study of newspeoples self declared political affiliations?

http://www.asne.org/kiosk/reports/97reports/journalists90s/journalists.html

to sum it up...

61% of Newspaper reporters are Liberal/democrats

15% are Conservative/Republicans....

and the Print Media is always considered the more conservative of the two.



Have you ever thought about WHY more reporters self-describe as liberal?  I'd argue the number is actual more like 80/20 if you filter out people that don't get into the business to actually BE journalists.  (They want to be talking heads on TV, for example.) 

And you're using the same flawed methodology/logic the FoxNEWS guy is using in coming to your conclusion:

Reporters can't actually, you know, do their job ethically and strive to find balance in their work.  The fact that the corporations and wealthy elite that sit on the boards and flat-out OWN all the media outlets are largely NOT liberals has no bearing on the direction of the media output of the companies.  

These figures are thrown around to show that the media is inherently liberal in its bias and focus. And it's just ridiculous.  Are there biased reporters who are actively pursuing an agenda?  Yep.  Of all sorts of political persuasions.  There's also a lot of good ones.  

This point you raise does nothing to excuse FOX.  It's classic subversion of attention away from the point at hand.  It's the ruse they throw up there to reinforce their false version of the truth.  Palin and Hannity say "You know how we are the only ones saying these crazy false things?  That's because the rest of the world is in vast liberal socialist communist conspiracy to tell you lies.  They have meetings.  You know how we can't prove hardly anything we say?  It's because the schools are all brainwashing you and your kids and changing the research to hide the truth."

 

It's ridiculous reasoning and no thinking person should fall for it.  Conservatives are ultimately done a great disservice in that many of the policy stances that legitimate conservatives have are valid and helpful.  But there efforts are subverted by Murdoch and Hannity and Limbaugh and Beck spewing utter nonsense so that they can make a crap-ton of money.  



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

Reporters CAN'T do that.

Have you seen the ratings it's gotten?

MSNBC and Fox News reign.

While CNN has been taking over by the CEO of HLN... when CNN itself did lean leftword.

Also, even those who attempt to be even handed WILL have their biases shown through more often then not.


Here is a question.  Did you bother to read the methodology in questions asked.  If so, point out a question that a generally uninformed conservative would get "right" that a generally uninformed democrat would get "wrong".  Every single question is vice versa.



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Did you actually read the information?  Even the summary of it points out that both sides scored poorly on certain questions:

"On the other hand those who voted Democratic were more likely to incorrectly believe that: it was proven to be true that the US Chamber of Commerce was spending large amounts of foreign money to support Republican candidates (voted Democratic 57%, voted Republican 9%); Obama has not increased the level of troops in Afghanistan (51% to 39%); and Democratic legislators did not mostly vote in favor of TARP (56% to 14%).

In most cases those who had greater levels of exposure to news sources had lower levels of misinformation. There were, however, a number of cases where greater exposure to a particular news source increased misinformation on some issues."

 

Most voters don't know anything about anything, really.  The study isn't saying that conservatives are less informed or dumber - - but it IS saying that those who watch FOX are most uninformed.  Remember that these are reflections based on how people voted for as well.  They VOTED Democratic, for Obama. There's a huge number of people that voted for Obama that don't identify as "democrat" or "liberal"  and they certainly aren't the 500k people watching Maddow or O'Donnell on MSNBC every night.  

 



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:
Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:

Updated with Fox's response to the article. Kind of lame if you ask me, if they feel like something is wrong, they should attack the methodology like you guys are doing (or trying to do) here, not the University it was taken at.


Yeah... I mean, I'm sure he didn't know that "Best Party Schools" fact off hand, meaning it took time to come up with.

 

The methodology is so easy to attack, why they went with a silly cheap shot is beyond me.

And just so I understand, you're criticizing the Survey on the way the questions were asked?

More so on what the questions were.

It wasn't asking "Who was the most misinformed".

It was asking "Who has the most conservative base."

Since there were no Democratic leaning or nuetral leaning questions.

Getting something wrong often has less with the way the news is presented.... and more to do with who it is presented too... like when I asked you "Did they find WMDs in iraq" and showed a link that showed they found WMDs, and your response was "They didn't find WMDs because they were old WMDs."

There was no way I could of more truthfully reported that.

I have to disagree. Questions like "did the stimulus create jobs" and "will healthcare add to the deficit" etc. are not right-wing or left-wing questions. These are questions that have been debated on every political news station. You can't slant these questions as right or left. There are nonpartisan answers to these questions.

Take the stimulus job creation for example. The majority of economists agree it saved jobs, and not just a few. We're talking probably millions of jobs. I think the CBO even did an estimate on this.

Healthcare also, the CBO said it would not add to the deficit. In fact, they said it would REDUCE the deficit. I'd bet my posting rights if the CBO had said this healthcare bill will add to the deficit, Fox News would have had a field day with that.

•   40% of voters believed incorrectly that the TARP legislation was initiated under Barack Obama, rather than George Bush
•   31% believed it was proven true that the US Chamber of Commerce spent large amounts of money it had raised from foreign sources to support Republican candidates
•   54% believed that there were no tax cuts in the stimulus legislation
•   86% assumed their taxes had gone up (38%) or stayed the same (48%), while only 10% were aware that their taxes had gone down since 2009
•   53% thought that the bailout of GM and Chrysler occurred only under Obama, though it was initiated under Bush

If you watch Fox News even today, these are facts that are just flat out ignored by right-wing media.

You can attack the University all you want (something I'm not personally blaming you for), but it doesn't change the results of this study.



fastyxx said:

Did you actually read the information?  Even the summary of it points out that both sides scored poorly on certain questions:

"On the other hand those who voted Democratic were more likely to incorrectly believe that: it was proven to be true that the US Chamber of Commerce was spending large amounts of foreign money to support Republican candidates (voted Democratic 57%, voted Republican 9%); Obama has not increased the level of troops in Afghanistan (51% to 39%); and Democratic legislators did not mostly vote in favor of TARP (56% to 14%).

In most cases those who had greater levels of exposure to news sources had lower levels of misinformation. There were, however, a number of cases where greater exposure to a particular news source increased misinformation on some issues."

 

Most voters don't know anything about anything, really.  The study isn't saying that conservatives are less informed or dumber - - but it IS saying that those who watch FOX are most uninformed.  Remember that these are reflections based on how people voted for as well.  They VOTED Democratic, for Obama. There's a huge number of people that voted for Obama that don't identify as "democrat" or "liberal"  and they certainly aren't the 500k people watching Maddow or O'Donnell on MSNBC every night.  

 


How conservative do you think a Democrat who watches Fox News is compaired to a Democrat that watches MSNBC?  Or do you think there is no difference between a Democrat who watches MSNBC and who watches Fox News?



Tigerlure said:
Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:
Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:

Updated with Fox's response to the article. Kind of lame if you ask me, if they feel like something is wrong, they should attack the methodology like you guys are doing (or trying to do) here, not the University it was taken at.


Yeah... I mean, I'm sure he didn't know that "Best Party Schools" fact off hand, meaning it took time to come up with.

 

The methodology is so easy to attack, why they went with a silly cheap shot is beyond me.

And just so I understand, you're criticizing the Survey on the way the questions were asked?

More so on what the questions were.

It wasn't asking "Who was the most misinformed".

It was asking "Who has the most conservative base."

Since there were no Democratic leaning or nuetral leaning questions.

Getting something wrong often has less with the way the news is presented.... and more to do with who it is presented too... like when I asked you "Did they find WMDs in iraq" and showed a link that showed they found WMDs, and your response was "They didn't find WMDs because they were old WMDs."

There was no way I could of more truthfully reported that.

I have to disagree. Questions like "did the stimulus create jobs" and "will healthcare add to the deficit" etc. are not right-wing or left-wing questions. These are questions that have been debated on every political news station. You can't slant these questions as right or left. There are nonpartisan answers to these questions.

Take the stimulus job creation for example. The majority of economists agree it saved jobs, and not just a few. We're talking probably millions of jobs. I think the CBO even did an estimate on this.

Healthcare also, the CBO said it would not add to the deficit. In fact, they said it would REDUCE the deficit. I'd bet my posting rights if the CBO had said this healthcare bill will add to the deficit, Fox News would have had a field day with that.

•   40% of voters believed incorrectly that the TARP legislation was initiated under Barack Obama, rather than George Bush
•   31% believed it was proven true that the US Chamber of Commerce spent large amounts of money it had raised from foreign sources to support Republican candidates
•   54% believed that there were no tax cuts in the stimulus legislation
•   86% assumed their taxes had gone up (38%) or stayed the same (48%), while only 10% were aware that their taxes had gone down since 2009
•   53% thought that the bailout of GM and Chrysler occurred only under Obama, though it was initiated under Bush

If you watch Fox News even today, these are facts that are just flat out ignored by right-wing media.

You can attack the University all you want (something I'm not personally blaming you for), but it doesn't change the results of this study.

What?

You don't think MSNBC was happy with the congressional budget office on that report? (which by the way, pretty much all those deficit reductions have already disapeared.  It still should reduce the defice, but by a paltry amount and only if they change nothing else.)

These ARE Republican and Democratic issues... in that Democrats are happy the results are what they are.

Like how Republicans are happy that areas with lower gun restirctions have less crime... etc.

There are tons of facts republicans like, that Democratic news orginizations ignore too... none of which were included in the survey.



Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:
Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:
Kasz216 said:
Tigerlure said:

Updated with Fox's response to the article. Kind of lame if you ask me, if they feel like something is wrong, they should attack the methodology like you guys are doing (or trying to do) here, not the University it was taken at.


Yeah... I mean, I'm sure he didn't know that "Best Party Schools" fact off hand, meaning it took time to come up with.

 

The methodology is so easy to attack, why they went with a silly cheap shot is beyond me.

And just so I understand, you're criticizing the Survey on the way the questions were asked?

More so on what the questions were.

It wasn't asking "Who was the most misinformed".

It was asking "Who has the most conservative base."

Since there were no Democratic leaning or nuetral leaning questions.

Getting something wrong often has less with the way the news is presented.... and more to do with who it is presented too... like when I asked you "Did they find WMDs in iraq" and showed a link that showed they found WMDs, and your response was "They didn't find WMDs because they were old WMDs."

There was no way I could of more truthfully reported that.

I have to disagree. Questions like "did the stimulus create jobs" and "will healthcare add to the deficit" etc. are not right-wing or left-wing questions. These are questions that have been debated on every political news station. You can't slant these questions as right or left. There are nonpartisan answers to these questions.

Take the stimulus job creation for example. The majority of economists agree it saved jobs, and not just a few. We're talking probably millions of jobs. I think the CBO even did an estimate on this.

Healthcare also, the CBO said it would not add to the deficit. In fact, they said it would REDUCE the deficit. I'd bet my posting rights if the CBO had said this healthcare bill will add to the deficit, Fox News would have had a field day with that.

•   40% of voters believed incorrectly that the TARP legislation was initiated under Barack Obama, rather than George Bush
•   31% believed it was proven true that the US Chamber of Commerce spent large amounts of money it had raised from foreign sources to support Republican candidates
•   54% believed that there were no tax cuts in the stimulus legislation
•   86% assumed their taxes had gone up (38%) or stayed the same (48%), while only 10% were aware that their taxes had gone down since 2009
•   53% thought that the bailout of GM and Chrysler occurred only under Obama, though it was initiated under Bush

If you watch Fox News even today, these are facts that are just flat out ignored by right-wing media.

You can attack the University all you want (something I'm not personally blaming you for), but it doesn't change the results of this study.

What?

You don't think MSNBC was happy with the congressional budget office on that report? (which by the way, pretty much all those deficit reductions have already disapeared.  It still should reduce the defice, but by a paltry amount and only if they change nothing else.)

These ARE Republican and Democratic issues... in that Democrats are happy the results are what they are.

Like how Republicans are happy that areas with lower gun restirctions have less crime... etc.

There are tons of facts republicans like, that Democratic news orginizations ignore too... none of which were included in the survey.

It doesn't add to the deficit, and it does a lot of good things. If they got rid of the mandate, I'm sure the American Public would be in love with it. As long as it doesn't add to the deficit, I'm fine with it, unlike some other bills (Bush Tax Cuts)

Well I would hope they are happy. They took steps that Republicans demonized time and time again, and made false statements about. This survey is just an example of how Fox News twists their facts and finds a way to blame everything on President Obama (TARP, bailouts)

The gun thing is a good point, but this survey isn't about small topics. This survey is about issues that affect Americans right now, I think we can deal with the gun issues down the road.

You're more than welcome to make your own survey if you want. I'm sure there are facts MSNBC ignores, but I'm positive that shows like Rachel Maddow back up their opinion with facts, something I haven't seen Fox News hosts do much of. Most of their "facts" they point out is usually discredited soon anyway.