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Forums - Microsoft - Kinect: DaVinchi App. (WoW)

daroamer said:
Mr.Metralha said:
citizenorange said:

i'll just leave this here.




Is Wii drums tracking your finger movements?

I'm not following the comparison.

Is kinect tracking minuscule feet beats and very small wrist flicks, done quickly?

Its not a comparison, its another example...



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Mr.Metralha said:
daroamer said:
Mr.Metralha said:
citizenorange said:

i'll just leave this here.




Is Wii drums tracking your finger movements?

I'm not following the comparison.

Is kinect tracking minuscule feet beats and very small wrist flicks, done quickly?

Its not a comparison, its another example...

If you're asking whether it can or not, yes. It can.



GOTY Contestants this year: Dead Space 2, Dark Souls, Tales of Graces f. Everything else can suck it.

Mendicate Bias said:
zarx said:
Mendicate Bias said:

The key point is that IR cameras are available to anyone that walks into an electronics store. Good luck walking into an electronics store and finding a cheap 3D camera though, heck good luck finding any 3D camera besides kinect.

What Metralha is trying to say is that the things kinect does can be done by any other camera, that is a complete lie. Thats not to say that the wii-mote isn't very good at what it does but to act like everything that kinect can do can be done with a wiimote is complete bullcrap.


the fact is that what the video he posted showed is basically the same effect as kinect uses, only instead of using kinect's 2 IR cameras to track depth & motion it uses 2 Wii mote IR cameras, You have defeated your own argument, the things Kinect does can be done by any 2 IR cameras that you can walk into an electronics store and buy.

No I haven't. The device uses the two IR cameras to track the users hand position, however all the software and other hardware needed to achieve that is custom built by that research group. You can't just put two IR cameras together and viola achieve 3D tracking, it requires a lot more software and hardware than that. Not everyone has a multi-million dollar research lab at their disposal.

With Kinect all the software and hardware comes complete out of the box and even an amateur hacker can achieve full body 3D tracking. I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand?

Not to mention thats not even his argument. His argument is that there is nothing Kinect can do that any old camera or wii can't. That is false, the wii has no way of tracking your entire body.


the custom hardware is for the hologram stuff the actual tracking is being handled by two wii motes, yes it needs custom software but so do all the kinect hacks for the PC it theory with some slight modification that software could work with any two IR cameras there isn't really anything that special about the kinect, any amature hacker could achieve it. 

here is a guide http://3dbruce.blogspot.com/ just replace the cameras with IR ones and start working on modifying some kinect drivers and you are set, have fun.



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Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Mr.Metralha said:
daroamer said:
Mr.Metralha said:
citizenorange said:

i'll just leave this here.




Is Wii drums tracking your finger movements?

I'm not following the comparison.

Is kinect tracking minuscule feet beats and very small wrist flicks, done quickly?

Its not a comparison, its another example...

Example of what?

I can put up a video of someone kicking a ball with Kinect Sports which the Wiimotes can't detect, but it has nothing to do with their ability to simulate drumming. 

What is your comparison, that both systems have musical applications?  Because I think his point was Kinect's ability to track finger movements, not that a musical app of some kind is possible with Kinect and not with any other console system.



I guess I'm just getting old.

I don't get the appeal.

Although I do like that video Barozi posted. That's pretty cool. Kinect is going to be big on youtube



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In another 6 months, I think the Xbox haters will start to have exploding head syndrome with fits of jealousy and rage…how can the Xbox get this…lol…look at me, I can do it too…not really, but I will say I can!

Anyway,…back to the OP topic, this is a really impressive example of Kinect’s potential.  One thing I notice was how rapidly the tracking was for his movements to the on screen action.  Granted, this is graphics aren’t anywhere as complicated, but I think with more time, and experimentation, developers will be able to drastically improve the performance of Kinect, and deliver lightning quick tracking for more fast twitch action.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

zarx said:
Mendicate Bias said:

No I haven't. The device uses the two IR cameras to track the users hand position, however all the software and other hardware needed to achieve that is custom built by that research group. You can't just put two IR cameras together and viola achieve 3D tracking, it requires a lot more software and hardware than that. Not everyone has a multi-million dollar research lab at their disposal.

With Kinect all the software and hardware comes complete out of the box and even an amateur hacker can achieve full body 3D tracking. I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand?

Not to mention thats not even his argument. His argument is that there is nothing Kinect can do that any old camera or wii can't. That is false, the wii has no way of tracking your entire body.


the custom hardware is for the hologram stuff the actual tracking is being handled by two wii motes, yes it needs custom software but so do all the kinect hacks for the PC it theory with some slight modification that software could work with any two IR cameras there isn't really anything that special about the kinect, any amature hacker could achieve it. 

here is a guide http://3dbruce.blogspot.com/ just replace the cameras with IR ones and start working on modifying some kinect drivers and you are set, have fun.

The hackers are making custom software but it is the kinect itself that is tracking the movements of the person in 3D space and converting it into digital information. The hackers are simply taking that information and applying it to their own software.

Also you are severely underselling how hard it is to make a 3D capable tracking camera. You need far more than just two IR cameras and some software, not to mention the software has to be quite advanced.

Also what were you trying to prove with that link? Unless I read it wrong all that is showing is how to make a camera that can take 3D pictures, it has nothing to do with a camera that can track movement in 3D space.

I think you are ridiculously underestimating how difficult it is to make software capable of tracking specific body parts like head, arms, fingers and legs in 3D space. This is not something that can be done by some amateur hacker.

If it is so easy can you show me a video or article of someone using a wiimote to create a 3D camera with full body tracking, I am honestly curious?



                                           

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Mendicate Bias said:
zarx said:
Mendicate Bias said:

The hackers are making custom software but it is the kinect itself that is tracking the movements of the person in 3D space and converting it into digital information. The hackers are simply taking that information and applying it to their own software.

Also you are severely underselling how hard it is to make a 3D capable tracking camera. You need far more than just two IR cameras and some software, not to mention the software has to be quite advanced.

Also what were you trying to prove with that link? Unless I read it wrong all that is showing is how to make a camera that can take 3D pictures, it has nothing to do with a camera that can track movement in 3D space.

I think you are ridiculously underestimating how difficult it is to make software capable of tracking specific body parts like head, arms, fingers and legs in 3D space. This is not something that can be done by some amateur hacker.

If it is so easy can you show me a video or article of someone using a wiimote to create a 3D camera with full body tracking, I am honestly curious?

not quite as sophisticated as kinect but

Once hackers start porting over the kinect libraries the tech should come in leaps and bounds 

 

I should clarify I do think that Natal (especially the libraries they developed) is an impressive piece of tech but it's not exactly unique or un emulatable it is esentailly a webcam a couple of IR cameras and some very impressive libraries.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

daroamer said:

Example of what?

I can put up a video of someone kicking a ball with Kinect Sports which the Wiimotes can't detect, but it has nothing to do with their ability to simulate drumming.

What is your comparison, that both systems have musical applications?  Because I think his point was Kinect's ability to track finger movements, not that a musical app of some kind is possible with Kinect and not with any other console system.

Kinect only works at 30 fps, that's why it has a considerable ammount of lag, I don't think it could recognize you drumming an imaginary drum set at the speed thisguy is drumming. Plus, he's sitting, another let down, you have to be standing for kinect to work with skeleton tracking...



Mr.Metralha said:
daroamer said:

Example of what?

I can put up a video of someone kicking a ball with Kinect Sports which the Wiimotes can't detect, but it has nothing to do with their ability to simulate drumming.

What is your comparison, that both systems have musical applications?  Because I think his point was Kinect's ability to track finger movements, not that a musical app of some kind is possible with Kinect and not with any other console system.

Kinect only works at 30 fps, that's why it has a considerable ammount of lag, I don't think it could recognize you drumming an imaginary drum set at the speed thisguy is drumming. Plus, he's sitting, another let down, you have to be standing for kinect to work with skeleton tracking...

Seriously, if you're going to keep discussing Kinect I'd suggest you do at least a bit of research....this was fixed months ago.  I've played Joyride while sitting just fine.  They simply changed the root tracking joint from the base of the spine to the neck.

Secondly the lag, or latency to use a more correct term, of Kinect is only about 200ms, and that's after having to all the computational work to render a scene and animate a character.  The raw data has extremely small perceptible lag.

You other point about drumming is still baffling, why is this even relevant to this thread?  I can guarantee you the lag with Wii kick tracking is FAR worse than Kinects drum tracking.  I think you'll be waiting years for your kick to register with the Wiimote in your hand.  Again though, it's completely irrelevant to the topic.