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Forums - General - Flat tax rate system should be enforced now.

 

Flat tax rate system should be enforced now.

Sounds like a fair tax system. Sign me up!!! 22 24.44%
 
Another crazy numonex thread!!! 13 14.44%
 
You have got to be kidding me!!! 48 53.33%
 
Candy!!! 7 7.78%
 
Total:90

I'm more a fan of replacing income tax with a flat sales tax on all goods.  Basically, the more you spend, the more tax you pay. 

Of course, this can unjustly effect lower income brackets, given they are forced to spend a much higher portion of their income on essential goods, and thus arguably pay an unfair percentage of taxes.  To solve this problem, I would forgo sales tax on certain essential goods, namely food and non-alcoholic drinks bought via typical retail methods.  For gasoline and other energy sources, I would at least limit the tax, and I would also limit the tax for the rest of the food industry, given paying a 20-30% tax on a burger at Burger King sounds outrageous.

So basically, something like this:

Food and non-alcoholic beverages bought via retail - no tax
Food bought wholesale and from restaurants - low tax
Gasoline/Energy - low tax
Everything else - high tax

I don't really know how that would work out numbers wise, but it seems like it'd get the job done, and in a much simpler and fairer way than the horrible system we have implemented currently.



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makingmusic476 said:

I'm more a fan of replacing income tax with a flat sales tax on all goods.  Basically, the more you spend, the more tax you pay. 

Of course, this can unjustly effect lower income brackets, given they are forced to spend a much higher portion of their income on essential goods, and thus arguably pay an unfair percentage of taxes.  To solve this problem, I would forgo sales tax on certain essential goods, namely food and non-alcoholic drinks bought via typical retail methods.  For gasoline and other energy sources, I would at least limit the tax, and I would also limit the tax for the rest of the food industry, given paying a 20-30% tax on a burger at Burger King sounds outrageous.

So basically, something like this:

Food and non-alcoholic beverages bought via retail - no tax
Food bought wholesale and from restaurants - low tax
Gasoline/Energy - low tax
Everything else - high tax

I don't really know how that would work out numbers wise, but it seems like it'd get the job done, and in a much simpler and fairer way than the horrible system we have implemented currently.

yes i am also in favor of this, i would want a higher tax on luxury goods though.  Also low taxes on anything like clothing, shelter, and any kind of food.  Then you can take away pretty much all taxes being taken out before you get payed.  Huckabee was proposing something like this before.  



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

johnsobas said:
makingmusic476 said:

I'm more a fan of replacing income tax with a flat sales tax on all goods.  Basically, the more you spend, the more tax you pay. 

Of course, this can unjustly effect lower income brackets, given they are forced to spend a much higher portion of their income on essential goods, and thus arguably pay an unfair percentage of taxes.  To solve this problem, I would forgo sales tax on certain essential goods, namely food and non-alcoholic drinks bought via typical retail methods.  For gasoline and other energy sources, I would at least limit the tax, and I would also limit the tax for the rest of the food industry, given paying a 20-30% tax on a burger at Burger King sounds outrageous.

So basically, something like this:

Food and non-alcoholic beverages bought via retail - no tax
Food bought wholesale and from restaurants - low tax
Gasoline/Energy - low tax
Everything else - high tax

I don't really know how that would work out numbers wise, but it seems like it'd get the job done, and in a much simpler and fairer way than the horrible system we have implemented currently.

yes i am also in favor of this, i would want a higher tax on luxury goods though.  Also low taxes on anything like clothing, shelter, and any kind of food.  Then you can take away pretty much all taxes being taken out before you get payed.  Huckabee was proposing something like this before.  

Yeah, I forgot about clothing and whatnot.  I need to expand the scope of what I consider to be an essential good!



johnsobas said:
Baalzamon said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
ramses01 said:
Rath said:

A flat tax is basically 'lets fuck the poor so the rich get richer'. It's obvious that the poor can't afford to have as much of their income taxed as the rich can. A flat tax is not a 'fair' tax, it's a blatantly unfair tax when you consider quality of life, it essentially means that the rich will be able to live a better quality of life than the good one they currently have and the poor will be able to live a worse quality of life than the poor one they currently have. Because widening the wealth gap is what everyone wants right?

Also relying on charity doesn't work. Charity is nice, but it's not thorough.

 

Finally the 'trickle down' effect is complete rubbish, it doesn't trickle down, it just pools at the top.

This is complete and utter nonesense.  The flat tax is the only fair tax.  If you want to have segmented tax rates, then the poor should pay a HIGHER tax rate than the rich as they consume a disportionate amount of the services.  If the poor can't afford the taxes then they should get better jobs, it is as simple as that.

Who has more to gain from funding a military that protects America's oil and trade interests?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding roads and bridges to ensure the safe delivery of goods across the country?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding education and health care so they can have an educated healthy pool of workers to hire from?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding the bailout?  The poor or the rich assholes on Wall Street that got us into this mess?

etc. etc. etc.

Rich people get more out of America (or any stable government and economy for that matter), so they should put more back in.

Well, with your school remark, the people that get the most out of school are actually the people that strive to get the most out of it.  It is one's own fault if they did not try in school and could not do something as simple as getting at least semi-decent grades (C's and better).  I have to laugh, there was a kid in my high school wanted me to help him with math, because he has lots of trouble on it.  I decided, sure, I'll do a good thing.  Next day, he's texting in class.  No more tutoring him by me.

right, it never has anything to do with the fact that schools are paid for by property taxes.  It has nothing to do with the fact that schools in poor areas are severely underfunded.  Just blame the poor for being lazy. 

Actually, if you look at test scores vs. funding, you find that the less a school gets, the better the grades. Compare inner city Detroit schools which get ~$16,000 per student with my rural Ohio school which gets $6,000 per student. Actually, you can compare virtually every under-performing school in any city with virtually any school outside and find that the inner city schools always spend far more for far less.

Heck, look at Cornerstone in Detroit. They have a 98% graduation rate and cost about $10,000 per student. They take the same poverty-striken kids on welfare and graduate them at a rate 3x that of public school. I wonder...Why should we continue to fund failing schools when we see private ones that do so much better with so less?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Tigerlure said:
Baalzamon said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
ramses01 said:
Rath said:

A flat tax is basically 'lets fuck the poor so the rich get richer'. It's obvious that the poor can't afford to have as much of their income taxed as the rich can. A flat tax is not a 'fair' tax, it's a blatantly unfair tax when you consider quality of life, it essentially means that the rich will be able to live a better quality of life than the good one they currently have and the poor will be able to live a worse quality of life than the poor one they currently have. Because widening the wealth gap is what everyone wants right?

Also relying on charity doesn't work. Charity is nice, but it's not thorough.

 

Finally the 'trickle down' effect is complete rubbish, it doesn't trickle down, it just pools at the top.

This is complete and utter nonesense.  The flat tax is the only fair tax.  If you want to have segmented tax rates, then the poor should pay a HIGHER tax rate than the rich as they consume a disportionate amount of the services.  If the poor can't afford the taxes then they should get better jobs, it is as simple as that.

Who has more to gain from funding a military that protects America's oil and trade interests?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding roads and bridges to ensure the safe delivery of goods across the country?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding education and health care so they can have an educated healthy pool of workers to hire from?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding the bailout?  The poor or the rich assholes on Wall Street that got us into this mess?

etc. etc. etc.

Rich people get more out of America (or any stable government and economy for that matter), so they should put more back in.

Well, with your school remark, the people that get the most out of school are actually the people that strive to get the most out of it.  It is one's own fault if they did not try in school and could not do something as simple as getting at least semi-decent grades (C's and better).  I have to laugh, there was a kid in my high school wanted me to help him with math, because he has lots of trouble on it.  I decided, sure, I'll do a good thing.  Next day, he's texting in class.  No more tutoring him by me.


You sound a lot like the people who think the unemployed are lazy and just don't feel like working. And do you honestly think making the poor pay more taxes and the rich pay less than them will help our economy?

The (edit) rich pay less taxes?  Last I heard, the top 5% of our country pays like 90%, or something like that, of our taxes.  And while I will agree it is very difficult to find a full time job, the people that are searching can easily get a part time, minimum wage job that will at least help for bills (obviously won't cover near the full cost, but still helps)...I see places saying they are hiring all the time, even now.  So to some degree, yes, they are lazy, because they could go get one of these jobs if they wanted.  Also, if you'd look, its mostly uneducated people getting unemployed.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

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mrstickball said:

Actually, if you look at test scores vs. funding, you find that the less a school gets, the better the grades. Compare inner city Detroit schools which get ~$16,000 per student with my rural Ohio school which gets $6,000 per student. Actually, you can compare virtually every under-performing school in any city with virtually any school outside and find that the inner city schools always spend far more for far less.

Heck, look at Cornerstone in Detroit. They have a 98% graduation rate and cost about $10,000 per student. They take the same poverty-striken kids on welfare and graduate them at a rate 3x that of public school. I wonder...Why should we continue to fund failing schools when we see private ones that do so much better with so less?

Now, I haven't looked into this but it sounds like the causation is the other way around. It's not "if you spend less money you get better grades" but rather "struggling schools get more money". That doesn't mean spending less money is the answer, it more likely means the money needs to get spent trying to change inner city culture, which is probably the actual culprate.

The reason private schools do better isn't necessarily that they are just so much more thrifty and smart, so much as culturally a private school is going to be vastly different than an inner city public school. You don't pay top dollar to put your kid into a private school and then they are spending their time trying to get their gun through the metal detector because a rival gang is gunning for you for dealing on their turf.

I really don't think that the spending is the causal agent here, and saying that privitization is obviously the key to better education because they get more for less, is probably ignoring a number of cultural factors. If you removed the inner city public schools where way too much is being spent on students, and suddenly there was nothing but private schools, all of the drug addiction, teen pregnancy, violence, abusive households, uneducated parents, and alcoholism don't just disappear because the school is thrifty and trying to aggressively seek profit.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

mrstickball said:
johnsobas said:
Baalzamon said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
ramses01 said:
Rath said:

A flat tax is basically 'lets fuck the poor so the rich get richer'. It's obvious that the poor can't afford to have as much of their income taxed as the rich can. A flat tax is not a 'fair' tax, it's a blatantly unfair tax when you consider quality of life, it essentially means that the rich will be able to live a better quality of life than the good one they currently have and the poor will be able to live a worse quality of life than the poor one they currently have. Because widening the wealth gap is what everyone wants right?

Also relying on charity doesn't work. Charity is nice, but it's not thorough.

 

Finally the 'trickle down' effect is complete rubbish, it doesn't trickle down, it just pools at the top.

This is complete and utter nonesense.  The flat tax is the only fair tax.  If you want to have segmented tax rates, then the poor should pay a HIGHER tax rate than the rich as they consume a disportionate amount of the services.  If the poor can't afford the taxes then they should get better jobs, it is as simple as that.

Who has more to gain from funding a military that protects America's oil and trade interests?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding roads and bridges to ensure the safe delivery of goods across the country?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding education and health care so they can have an educated healthy pool of workers to hire from?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding the bailout?  The poor or the rich assholes on Wall Street that got us into this mess?

etc. etc. etc.

Rich people get more out of America (or any stable government and economy for that matter), so they should put more back in.

Well, with your school remark, the people that get the most out of school are actually the people that strive to get the most out of it.  It is one's own fault if they did not try in school and could not do something as simple as getting at least semi-decent grades (C's and better).  I have to laugh, there was a kid in my high school wanted me to help him with math, because he has lots of trouble on it.  I decided, sure, I'll do a good thing.  Next day, he's texting in class.  No more tutoring him by me.

right, it never has anything to do with the fact that schools are paid for by property taxes.  It has nothing to do with the fact that schools in poor areas are severely underfunded.  Just blame the poor for being lazy. 

Actually, if you look at test scores vs. funding, you find that the less a school gets, the better the grades. Compare inner city Detroit schools which get ~$16,000 per student with my rural Ohio school which gets $6,000 per student. Actually, you can compare virtually every under-performing school in any city with virtually any school outside and find that the inner city schools always spend far more for far less.

Heck, look at Cornerstone in Detroit. They have a 98% graduation rate and cost about $10,000 per student. They take the same poverty-striken kids on welfare and graduate them at a rate 3x that of public school. I wonder...Why should we continue to fund failing schools when we see private ones that do so much better with so less?

i dont' have all the stats for everywhere in front of me, but for example in new york there is a direct correlation with graduation rate and the amount of money spent.  This is for new york state.

 School districts with graduation rates of less than 50% spent an average of $13,593; 

School districts with a 50% to 67% graduation rate spent an average of $15,009;  

School districts with a graduation rate of between 67% and 90% spent an average of $15,916; 

School districts with more than a 90% graduation rate spent an average of $18,551



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Politicians talking economics, is like philosophers talking science, or postmodern writers talking about anything.



numonex said:

Flat tax rate system should be enforced now. 20% tax rate on every dollar you earn. Fair simple tax system.

Government only provides Police services and military services. Both health and Education are fully privatised and run by free market system. Charity replaces social security system. Aged pensions are self funded, not from government. Water and utilities are provided by private enterprises, no government monopolies. 

No discrimination on socio-economic background. More jobs would be created and everyone would be better off. 

The 20% flat tax rate applies to all  individuals and all companies. A flat tax rate system applying to companies and individuals would be fair and reasonable. Conservative Libertarians would be over the moon with the implementation of a flat tax rate system. 

How about a flat tax rate system? 

That would be awesome!!  Have you read anything from Milton Friedman?  I am completely for a flat rate tax.  Did you know that progressive tax comes straight from karl marx.  The only other option I would be for would be eliminating the income tax and moving to consumption tax.



Akvod said:

Politicians talking economics, is like philosophers talking science, or postmodern writers talking about anything.

Politicians are not usually the best people to decide economic/financial policies. Politicians are talking heads usually with a lawyer background. Lawyers usually do not fully understand economic policies. They only do what is best for their power brokers: Unions, Civil rights, Environments or Big Corporate business mates. 

A Flat tax rate system would be a terrible idea unless there was a tax free zone up to the first $30,000 to compensate the low income earners. The high income earners have the luxury of reducing their taxes through foreign markets and tax loopholes. There are always loopholes in a tax system for the rich elites to exploit. 

The military and police need  adequate funding to protect citizens and the nation's assets. Infrastructure, Welfare, pensions, education and health system need to be paid for by the collection of taxes. Wealthy people need to pay taxes and contribute towards society just like all other citizens of a democratic society.