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Forums - General - How effective are the Bush tax cuts at creating jobs?

Unfortunately Republicans believe in the trickle-down theory. The Bush Tax Cuts are still in place right now, and they aren't really helping with Job Creation at the moment. Extending them would be a stupid thing to do, seeing as none of the money the rich will get from it is guaranteed to come back into the economy. They could, however, buy a new nice Camaro every year :P

Our status as a country right now should explain to you how well that worked.



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I found what David Stockman said about the Bush tax cuts to be interesting:



High spending, tax cutting, increasing deficits: neo-Republicans have become  another free spending Democrat party. Classical economic policies have made way for neo-Keynesian economic policies. Cutting taxes and increasing Budget fiscal deficits is something  any competent economist would avoid at all costs. 

Tax cuts do not always pay for themselves. Increasing government deficits are clear evidence the Bush tax cuts have failed. Cut taxes only when the government can afford it and maintain a balanced Budget. Deficits need to be reduced through reduction in government spending. Cutting taxes when the government is in deficit will only increase Budget fiscal deficits.

Huge shift to the left on economic policy. Fiscal conservative economic policies abandoned by the neo-Republicans mismanagement of the American economy. Huge deficits and growing sovereign debt. Obama and the US Federal reserve have continued the neo-Republican agenda.

Increase government spending only when there is a recession, increase deficits during bad economic times. Decrease government spending during economic expansion stages of economic/business cycle: reduce deficits during good times.

Most politicians are not competent economists and they regularly ignore advice from leading economic/financial advisers.  



Kasz has hit all the points I wanted to make. In fact you said in your OP richard. The fact that removing the tax cuts will result in job loss should lead you to thinking those jobs are there because the tax is at that rate, so the jobs were created by lowering taxes. Is it the best? I am not sure.  I personally think it is far better than giving the government money to make a program to train people for jobs that they never end working in. Which is the only thing I ever see the government doing. What other options are there? I am for a salary cap(and by cap i do not mean tax where the government gets the money, more of lets say I own a business and the cap is 500,000 a year and penny after that would stay with in the business until it is spent on employee wages, expansion, and saving for rainy days) for individuals, but where should it be and how should it be implemented?



thranx said:

Kasz has hit all the points I wanted to make. In fact you said in your OP richard. The fact that removing the tax cuts will result in job loss should lead you to thinking those jobs are there because the tax is at that rate, so the jobs were created by lowering taxes. Is it the best? I am not sure.  I personally think it is far better than giving the government money to make a program to train people for jobs that they never end working in. Which is the only thing I ever see the government doing. What other options are there? I am for a salary cap(and by cap i do not mean tax where the government gets the money, more of lets say I own a business and the cap is 500,000 a year and penny after that would stay with in the business until it is spent on employee wages, expansion, and saving for rainy days) for individuals, but where should it be and how should it be implemented?

I could of tracked down another Stockman interview and posted the link here.  The reality is, I don't now if anyone has answers.  Economists who study the issue should tell you that things are on empty now.  There has been, as Stockman said, a 30 year binge going on with spending wrecklessly.  Eventually you have a hangover.

I would say that there is a need to dialog and brainstorm here.  New answers are needed.  In the mean time, while we adjust, maybe the focus needs to try to be more compassionate with things, and try to help minimize the hurt that the middle and lower class will face.  When I see people saying stuff like I should kill myself so they can lower his taxes, then all sane dialog is thrown out, and if you have homeland security thought police, they may want to consider rounding up that person as a potential terrorist down the road for the psychopathic mindset (not saying to do this, just addressing the attitude).

I will say that if wealth continues to accumulate in fewer and fewer hands, and the middle class faces wage shrinkage, you aren't going to have much of a future for America, and the world will face issues to.  America not as a market will hurt everyone.  Oh, speaking on deficits, which Stockman raised, consider the TRADE deficit.  Eventually the money has to return to America.  If it returns and the total size of the trade deficit exceeds the value of assets in America, what would that mean?  What is to be of an America, where it is owned completely by non-Americans.  States are now selling their highway systems to foreign companies, who run the tolls.



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Tax cuts for incomes over ~$100,000 don't work in general.

Above that salary you have enough "spare" money to waste on consumer goods anyway, so most of it will be saved or invested in stocks. Especially the US economy is very reliant on consuming, so it's the middle incomes (the vast majority of the people) that fuel the economy by their buying power. It's likely that a tax cut for middle incomes WILL be spend directly, so will help the economy.



BengaBenga said:

Tax cuts for incomes over ~$100,000 don't work in general.

Above that salary you have enough "spare" money to waste on consumer goods anyway, so most of it will be saved or invested in stocks. Especially the US economy is very reliant on consuming, so it's the middle incomes (the vast majority of the people) that fuel the economy by their buying power. It's likely that a tax cut for middle incomes WILL be spend directly, so will help the economy.

Saving money... and investing in stocks create jobs...



Kasz216 said:
BengaBenga said:

Tax cuts for incomes over ~$100,000 don't work in general.

Above that salary you have enough "spare" money to waste on consumer goods anyway, so most of it will be saved or invested in stocks. Especially the US economy is very reliant on consuming, so it's the middle incomes (the vast majority of the people) that fuel the economy by their buying power. It's likely that a tax cut for middle incomes WILL be spend directly, so will help the economy.

Saving money... and investing in stocks create jobs...

Saving money might.  Investing in stocks does how, unless it is an initial IPO going to a new company that is getting listed for the first time?  You can cause stock prices to inflate if more people buy stocks.  MAYBE a company can happen to then sell stock and use the money to invest.  But, guess what has happened the past decade regarding this.  As companies were laying off workers, the stock price was going up and more people were buying stock, thinking the company was more profitable as a result of smaller headcount.  So, exactly where does buying stock cause more jobs?

One can say INVESTING, where the money goes directly to companies to start up, and they need more labor, would create jobs.  BUT, if the investors decide to invest in emerging markets, like China and India, rather than established markets like the United States, HOW does this create a better job situation than if the government spent money inside the United States?



richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
BengaBenga said:

Tax cuts for incomes over ~$100,000 don't work in general.

Above that salary you have enough "spare" money to waste on consumer goods anyway, so most of it will be saved or invested in stocks. Especially the US economy is very reliant on consuming, so it's the middle incomes (the vast majority of the people) that fuel the economy by their buying power. It's likely that a tax cut for middle incomes WILL be spend directly, so will help the economy.

Saving money... and investing in stocks create jobs...

Saving money might.  Investing in stocks does how, unless it is an initial IPO going to a new company that is getting listed for the first time?  You can cause stock prices to inflate if more people buy stocks.  MAYBE a company can happen to then sell stock and use the money to invest.  But, guess what has happened the past decade regarding this.  As companies were laying off workers, the stock price was going up and more people were buying stock, thinking the company was more profitable as a result of smaller headcount.  So, exactly where does buying stock cause more jobs?

One can say INVESTING, where the money goes directly to companies to start up, and they need more labor, would create jobs.  BUT, if the investors decide to invest in emerging markets, like China and India, rather than established markets like the United States, HOW does this create a better job situation than if the government spent money inside the United States?

When you buy stocks... where does that money go?

That would be to the person selling the stocks.

The money at worst will be saved... and quite possibly could lead to even better options.



Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
BengaBenga said:

Tax cuts for incomes over ~$100,000 don't work in general.

Above that salary you have enough "spare" money to waste on consumer goods anyway, so most of it will be saved or invested in stocks. Especially the US economy is very reliant on consuming, so it's the middle incomes (the vast majority of the people) that fuel the economy by their buying power. It's likely that a tax cut for middle incomes WILL be spend directly, so will help the economy.

Saving money... and investing in stocks create jobs...

Saving money might.  Investing in stocks does how, unless it is an initial IPO going to a new company that is getting listed for the first time?  You can cause stock prices to inflate if more people buy stocks.  MAYBE a company can happen to then sell stock and use the money to invest.  But, guess what has happened the past decade regarding this.  As companies were laying off workers, the stock price was going up and more people were buying stock, thinking the company was more profitable as a result of smaller headcount.  So, exactly where does buying stock cause more jobs?

One can say INVESTING, where the money goes directly to companies to start up, and they need more labor, would create jobs.  BUT, if the investors decide to invest in emerging markets, like China and India, rather than established markets like the United States, HOW does this create a better job situation than if the government spent money inside the United States?

When you buy stocks... where does that money go?

That would be to the person selling the stocks.

The money at worst will be saved... and quite possibly could lead to even better options.

Indeed, so how does saving money create a lot of jobs? Maybe a few in trading and analysis, but nothing significant. Most of that money will be relatively stagnant for a couple of years and as such doesn't help the economy a whole lot. Besides the increase in income tax for rich people would not be such that it would change their financial situation a whole lot.

The US has a strange system where companies pay a lot of taxes and individual citizens have very low taxes. If you want to create jobs you'll have to lower the company tax, so cmpanies can hire people. Individuals don't hire people, comapnies do (in general).