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Forums - Gaming - Let's talk about the story in the Rockstar games

I've always found their stories a bit of a mixed bag for the following reasons:

1 - their narratives - and in fact most set pieces - are clearly drawn almost directly from films/books.  As such I often find them overly familiar - for example in GTA IV realizing I'm in the Rockstar version of the huge shootout in Heat.  Or the narrative in RDR which draws on a lot of Western influences.  In short, I feel they are often too close to their sources and not original enough.

2 - their dialogue though I think is often good with a nice ear for how people speak.  I thought the languague in RDR was very good, for example.  And GTA IV was pretty good too if more obviously stylized for parody

3 - their basic flow of narrative can be good but their mixing of missions in the open world can be self defeating.  This is more a function of having narrative within an open world but still, it is a problem.  Even when they control what missions you have access to when it's very easy to break immersion.  I doubt many criminals in real life, for example, break off from a heated turf war to complete a few simple errands.  Or someone trying to accomplish a mission to see their wife and child returned would take time out to gather flowers.  In short, the gameplay devices in the open world interfere negatively with the overall narrative

 

So, for me they're good and bad.  They do have good plots a lot of the time - even if only because they've borrowed them wholesale from successful films/books - and they can deliver good dialogue/voice acting, but the way the execute in the open world undermines things and I'd like to see more originality rather than obvious outright copying.

They are better than most developers though - and at least I can often tell they've watched the same film as me or read the same books.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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Reasonable said:

I've always found their stories a bit of a mixed bag for the following reasons:

1 - their narratives - and in fact most set pieces - are clearly drawn almost directly from films/books.  As such I often find them overly familiar - for example in GTA IV realizing I'm in the Rockstar version of the huge shootout in Heat.  Or the narrative in RDR which draws on a lot of Western influences.  In short, I feel they are often too close to their sources and not original enough.

2 - their dialogue though I think is often good with a nice ear for how people speak.  I thought the languague in RDR was very good, for example.  And GTA IV was pretty good too if more obviously stylized for parody

3 - their basic flow of narrative can be good but their mixing of missions in the open world can be self defeating.  This is more a function of having narrative within an open world but still, it is a problem.  Even when they control what missions you have access to when it's very easy to break immersion.  I doubt many criminals in real life, for example, break off from a heated turf war to complete a few simple errands.  Or someone trying to accomplish a mission to see their wife and child returned would take time out to gather flowers.  In short, the gameplay devices in the open world interfere negatively with the overall narrative

 

So, for me they're good and bad.  They do have good plots a lot of the time - even if only because they've borrowed them wholesale from successful films/books - and they can deliver good dialogue/voice acting, but the way the execute in the open world undermines things and I'd like to see more originality rather than obvious outright copying.

They are better than most developers though - and at least I can often tell they've watched the same film as me or read the same books.

Can you name the movies or books they used as "inspiration"?




marciosmg said:

I think GTA IV had a great story. The problem? You control the character after the cutscenes.

I mean, Niko is treated is treated as someone who wants to turn over a new leaf and seems level-headed.

The cutscene ends, you get in a car, and starts running over everybody on the road.

No consistency. That is the problem of storytelling in open-world games.

They could make sure you cant kill innocents, but fans would hate that.

Thats why I think, for the next GTA, Rockstar should this: main game with wacky character and story. Then, release DLC with more serious tone, where you cant kill civilians.

That way they would be able to keep their fans happy and still have the quality of story.

I guess you finished RDR... You have a point there. I did nothing dishonorable during the game. The only mistake I made was in Mexico when some soldiers where going to execute a poor bastard in front of his woman. I draw my revolve and THEY started shooting, I  fired back in legitimate defense (no such a thing in the wild west I guess) and had to escape and in the other side of the border. That is the only bad thing I did. But if you finished the game, well, you know how it ends...




Reasonable said:

 

1 - their narratives - and in fact most set pieces - are clearly drawn almost directly from films/books.  As such I often find them overly familiar - for example in GTA IV realizing I'm in the Rockstar version of the huge shootout in Heat.  Or the narrative in RDR which draws on a lot of Western influences.  In short, I feel they are often too close to their sources and not original enough.


Oh yeah, you are right, I remember those scenes... What about Bully? San Andreas and Red Dead Redemption?




I liked the story in Red Dead Redemption, barring the entire middle of the game, which was nothing but pointless filler. Sadly, that leads me into having the opinion that it's merely a good game that had the potential to be much better if the pacing was consistent.



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themanwithnoname said:

I liked the story in Red Dead Redemption, barring the entire middle of the game, which was nothing but pointless filler. Sadly, that leads me into having the opinion that it's merely a good game that had the potential to be much better if the pacing was consistent.


Did you play GTA IV? RDR was so much better in every way. I just can't believe that Liberty city turned out to be such a ghost town and that desert in which Red Dead Redemption took place was so full of life!

And even though the critics loved RDR it is still Below GTA IV. Makes no sense to me.

About the Story in RDR... similar to San Andreas, the main character is forced to do a lot of things he doesn't want to but he's a victim of extorsion. However, in San Andreas CJ escapes to another part of the city and then comes back to have is final revenge if I remember correctly. The blackmail is important only during a part of the game, which is very long by the way, but so much fun anyway. In RDR that situation lasts the whole game... I don't know. And still, the game reminds me a bit to Clint Eastwood's "The Unforgiven", not the story but the main character who has a past and also a family he wants to come back to... But that movie really Rocks and makes RDR story look really bad




I play GTA to run over hookers and shoot cops, not for the story.



Reasonable said:

I've always found their stories a bit of a mixed bag for the following reasons:

1 - their narratives - and in fact most set pieces - are clearly drawn almost directly from films/books.  As such I often find them overly familiar - for example in GTA IV realizing I'm in the Rockstar version of the huge shootout in Heat.  Or the narrative in RDR which draws on a lot of Western influences.  In short, I feel they are often too close to their sources and not original enough.

2 - their dialogue though I think is often good with a nice ear for how people speak.  I thought the languague in RDR was very good, for example.  And GTA IV was pretty good too if more obviously stylized for parody

3 - their basic flow of narrative can be good but their mixing of missions in the open world can be self defeating.  This is more a function of having narrative within an open world but still, it is a problem.  Even when they control what missions you have access to when it's very easy to break immersion.  I doubt many criminals in real life, for example, break off from a heated turf war to complete a few simple errands.  Or someone trying to accomplish a mission to see their wife and child returned would take time out to gather flowers.  In short, the gameplay devices in the open world interfere negatively with the overall narrative

 

So, for me they're good and bad.  They do have good plots a lot of the time - even if only because they've borrowed them wholesale from successful films/books - and they can deliver good dialogue/voice acting, but the way the execute in the open world undermines things and I'd like to see more originality rather than obvious outright copying.

They are better than most developers though - and at least I can often tell they've watched the same film as me or read the same books.

Too many to mention.   But clearly Scarface, Heat, Goodfellas, The Godfather and many other films dealing with organized crime have been watched by the guys.  Ditto Once Upon A Time In The West, every Clint Eastwood western plus Unforgiven, The Wild Bunch and others more recently focusing on the closing days of the classic western.

Bully seemed more inspired by IF and a whole slew of more British boarding school/school days films.

In short - a lot.  And that's just the films.

Not that I'm overly knocking it overall.  I'd rather play RDR with a nice openning and step out onto what feels like the train station from Once Upon A Time In The West vs most games stories.  I'm just noting that, so far, it seems they rely a great deal on other mediums for basic themes/content and supply their twist.  For example the whole notion in RDR of the changing times in the USA is a huge focus for a lot of films/literature.

Anyone who watches a lot and reads a lot in certain genres (like me) will see a huge amount of referencing in their stories.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

I love the stories in rockstar games they allways leave me deep in thought after I have finished them..



Chairman-Mao said:

I play GTA to run over hookers and shoot cops, not for the story.


Unfortunately for me (and I think for the Houser brothers - director of the games) you represent most of the people who buy the game.



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