Truth is I suppose I don't know much about the Canadian system. I ought to try to discover if it's the same kind of inhumane quagmire of human suffering that characterizes the American system.

And I got my permanent residence a bit ago.

Oh, nice. Welcome to to the fold buddy.

As long as you dont do racial motivated crimes, you will love it here :)

Hate crime laws are something of a savage hypocrisy; I understand the sentiment behind them, maybe even agree with that sentiment, but the fact of every crime marked as a hate crime is that every crime of that kind is a hate crime, coming down to the hatred between persons rather than between groups.

There is precedence for punishment based on motivation - premeditated murder is much worse than spur-of-the-moment murder, in the eyes of the system - but I don't think that hatred is a proper metric for punitive recompense.

Racism is a more sinister beast in Canada than it is in the States, though; compare racism in Canada to racism in the Deep South and you are fighting two different creatures. This country is akin to Ohio or Montana or Indiana, where the greatest part of racism never speaks before it acts.

These guys have a maximum sentence of 12 years instead of 10; their freedom is going to be theirs within five years. That's fine. Canada's punitive system is different, born out of a country that is very different.

I'm happy the men were put away, but I don't think this is news and I don't think hate crime codes ought to be praised.

There's morons here in Canada the same as there are in the United States. Although, in Canada, we banish our morons to icefloats in the Arctic Ocean if they commit multiple offenses. If they can make it back South to civilization, then we consider them intelligent enough to remain in Northern Ontario.

good.

from what i recall about this case.   this was a personal issue with the guy and they didnt dislike him because of his race.  they were even related iirc (through marriage).

so that it was considered a hate crime is innapropriate.

Guys 12 years is more like 4-6 on good behavior anyway...

Couldn't the personal issue have been the fact that he was black?

Hate crime laws are bullshit. If you commit a crime against another human being, you are punished for it. Certain individuals should not be more "off limits" than others.

I don't understand this... Attacking someone to steal their money isn't hate crime (and the motivation isn't hate). Attacking someone because they're part of a racial minority or because they're not heterosexual etc. is a hate crime (the motivation being hate and prejudice).

Hate crimes (real ones) are generally situations when a racist/homophobe targets random people based on their race/sexual orientation (thus your argument that it's hatred between persons, and not groups doesn't stand). Such a person is more dangerous that you're avarege criminal, who kills someone to steal their money (for example), because he targets individuals based on their race/sexual orientation, and will continue to terrorise such groups (the same way someone who premeditates a murder is considered more dangerous that someone who spontaneously decided to kill , or more dangerous than someone who commits a crime of passion).