The only problem with this example is, Jews were historically from Israel and long before it was palestinian land it was jewish land. Historically both peoples the palestinians and the jews have rights to the land, also it is both their holy lands. A better example in my books is if we took one native tribe and gave them half the reserve of another native tribe. Sure hundreds to thousands of years ago that native tribe used to live on that reserve but the people living their now aren't going to like having their land taken away and given back to the historical tribe.

I recognize the state of Israel. But think that the settlements and the treatment of palestinians by settlers only fuels the hatred. Some say if Israel froze settlements it wouldn't lead to peace or the two state solution, your right it probubly wouldn't immediatly mean peace. But it would be a start, and over dozens to hundreds of years peace could be reached.

Just because someone is wronging you (Hamas/Fatah) doesn't mean you can steal their land and harm them back. As for no body hearing stories of jews ambushing and killing innocent palestinians. Colonel Ilan Malka of the Israeli military just recently admitted that the Israeli military knowingly killed dozens of civilians. He is not alone The UN confirmed during the gaza war that the Israeli military targetted civilian houses and actually attacked the United Nation's buildings themselves. I believe reports indicate over 900 civilians were killed and only like 500 militants.

That is extremely disturbing. I can't see how you could accidently kill almost twice as many civilians as enemy combatants. These deaths don't hurt Hamas or other terrorist groups. For every fighter they loose two civilians are killed driving their families into joining their cause.

Also killing innocent palestinians only strengthens Hamas and other terrorist groups. Its wrong for a civilian (Palestinian) to kill or attack another Jewish civilian. But its as wrong if not more so for an authority figure (Israeli Military) to knowingly target and kill a Palestinian civilian.

You're 100% right. I was just using a hypothetical with the Haitians to encapsulate how the Palestinians feel currently regarding land and Israel. Plus, Haiti has always been one of the if not THE poorest sovereign state in the Western hemisphere. A lot of it can be blamed on Papa Doc Duvalier and his son, but the leaders beforehand were not exactly inspiring either.

Yes, Judea was originally the Jewish homeland before the rise of Islam. However, the Jews, for a myriad, of reasons left Judea, Judea became known as Palestine, and the British before, during, and after World War 1 assisted the zionists in recolonizing Palestine. I am speaking generally as this point, who was there first, can fill up a book.

As for state-sponsored terrorism vs. individual acts of terrorism, neither one is more wrong than the other. A helicopter attack that blows up a building where the inhabitants are willingly allowing Hamas and Fatah soldiers to conduct terrorism from is equally as wrong as a Palestinian suicide bomber. The number of deaths doesn't matter in my opinion, only the intent does.

The situation with the Palestinians is a sad one. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight and you don't throw rocks at tanks. If we did not have the 24 hour, second-by-second newscycle we do nowadays, the Palestinians would be in much worse shape than they are today.

I come down on the side of Israel. They are a recognized sovereign state and have every right to use whatever means they deem necessary to protect the safety of their citizens. I, nor no one else, is advocating to nuke the palestinians or round them up in concentration camps. There is a certain level of acceptable response they should not cross and if they do, like they did with stopping the aid boats, then they will be rightfully criticized.

As for the Palestinians, I view them as Arab Muslims who claim to have claims to land in what is known as the state of Israel. The peace or lack of peace, is just as much their responsibility as it is Israel's. We should not view them as morally superior because they don't have the weaponry to fight a conventional war. Likewise, they have not shown themselves to be the "bigger man" in walking away from the fight; instead they conduct terrorist methods to kill Israeli civilians which is just downright despicable and a crime against nature and God.

How the Arab world views Palestinians is very interesting. I had a friend in college who had a stopover in air travel in Jordan on her way to Israel. She noticed refugee camps with barbwire fence and tents. Apparently, these refugee camps near the airport, visible from the airport, was where Jordan kept the Palestinians.

So in many ways, Palestinians outside of Israel are viewed by their Arab neighbors in the same vein as gypsies in Europe. No one wants them in their country, no one wants to give them land, but almost every Arab Muslim outside of Israel sympathizes with them.

What I wonder is whether these "Palestinians" all have ties to what they consider Palestine or whether they are Arab Muslims from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and other Middle Eastern countries who are so full of anti-semitism that they claim to be "Palestinians" in order to kill Jews and drive them out of Mohammed's land?

Likewise, is there a physical difference in appearance between a Palestinian and a Iraqi, Saudi Arabian, Jordanian, on? Can you tell a Palestinian apart from another Arab Muslim without knowing firsthand?

With no intention of disrespect to anyone involved, I'm not sure why this warrants a mention on VGChartz.

The Gaza war in 2008-2009 resulted in an estimated 300-1000 civilian deaths, and yet it did not get a mention on VGChartz afaik.

This world is full of examples of such hateful behavior, of which this is a very minor example. Very few of these get mentioned on VGChartz, and I am very curious why this one did.

@Killiana. The only reasons the Palestinians don't have a state is because all of their land was occupied and is slowly being annexed by Israel. The Palestinian people have lived in those lands for centuries, they are not a bunch of foreigners who have recently moved in trying to claim the land. That statement applies far more to the Israeli settlers who are illegally (under international law) settling  the West Bank and East Jerusalem in an attempt to claim the promised land.

My main gripe with Israel is those settlements, it is a blatant attempt to annex land which in no way or form belongs to them.

Well your right, the Gaza war should have been mentioned here. I'm a political person and I love having a game forum where I feel at home that I can then talk about real world issues in. I tried finding a political forum and other then terrorist sites and nut job fanatic sites, VGChartz actually has level headed sane people to talk to.

I think everything should be talked about on VGChartz, see what the rest of the intelligent world thinks!

Can you even have a gripe with them over that?  I think that some settlements NEED to be kept.

Think about it this way.  You and someone else are having a disupute about some money.  A third party creates a settlement.   You agree... the other person gets his friends and tries to take all the money by force.

You and your friends win.

What are the chances now that you want to go through with it as listed?

Maybe it's me, but if you go against a proposed deal and then declare war... you should lose at least some of what you had.

Just letting people declare war and then get what they had coming anyway is just a REALLY bad precedent.

There should be at least some land lost.  What is the right amount though is something to be decided.

The worst mistake Palestine ever did was walk away from the deal on the table during the Clinton era.

No i'm pretty sure we had like... 4-5 threads on it at least.

Okay, about what you said.

Yes, I know for certainty that there were Israeli soldiers who attacked civilians, for probably no reason, however, when you are a 18-21 years old man, in a war, with the adrenalin pupming through your body after being in life-threatning situations for who know how many hours - you let your basic instincts take over your body and you make illogical decisions.

However, about the Israeli army as a whole bombing civilians - Hamas knowingly uses civilians structures like schools, hospitals, mosques, and places in close proximity to UN buildings (if not the UN buildings themselves) as places to fire rockets from, and spots to fight the Israeli soldiers from, just so that more civilians die, because they know that the more civilians die, the worse it makes Israel look.

Now, please watch the following, it is a testament of a collonel from the UN forces (or  the UK military, I don't remember precisely), who was in Israel during the last gaza war.
He talks about the difference between what really happend over there, to the way it was precieved by the global media.

(I hope that this will work, it's the first time I try to embed something here :P )

Anyway, it's nice to be able to have a discussion like this with someone who actually tries to know the facts, and not just blindely hate one side or the other of the conflict.

There are several points that are wrong in this post.

1) Punitive measures after wars cause trouble. Think Treaty of Versailles, which is a good deal less severe than annexing land.

2) Annexing land is blatantly against international law

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

That's part of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

3) Even is you accept that some sort of punishment is necessary for the six day war, don't you think depriving the Palestinians of nationhood for fifty something years is punishment enough without also annexing half of what little land they have left

4) It's arguable as to whether the Arabs are fully to blame for the six day war. Certainly both sides were gearing up for war for a while and the Israelis were the ones who (very cleverly) struck first by attacking the Egyptian air force. Or even before that by attacking the city of As-Samu.

Also, the international community is well against you on this one. Even America under George Bush was against the settlements.