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Forums - General - This is the best video on youtube.

tehsage on 27 October 2010
Armads said:
tehsage said:
Armads said:
tehsage said:
yo_john117 said:
Smashed said:

This is the greatest video on youtube. This man is a hero.

Something went wrong in the process of his wife's pregnancy, and there was a rare condition that left the baby with a zero percent chance of survival, that's why this guy stood up and said something.

Fuck abortion protestors, pathetic waste of human beings that should have been aborted themselves. There they are trying to promote Christianity, they are doing the complete opposite on what Christianity is all about. Ignorant fucks.

I was all ok with everything until I got to this.....thats so sad dude (stuff like this is why there can never be peace) 

I think their should only be abortion if the girl got raped or something like that condition in the OP happens.

So are you implying that the life of a rape baby is less than that of a consensual baby? :/

Not only that but apparently the life of the parent is of no meaning.  The economic condition of the mother to be could really matter less to these people.  Even if she is so poor that she can't afford to feed the child and it dies of starvation, or if the father has left and the child grows up fatherless with no role models, as long as it's not aborted right?

Again, are you implying that one persons life is more important than another's? Also, don't make such ridiculous claims. I didn't have a father growing up and I did just fine.


No I'm implying that it's unethical to bring people into this world when you know that their life would be miserable.  It's unethical to force a woman to have a child that she isn't prepared for, wasn't intending on having, and can not support.  It is but unethical to the life of the child and the mother.  Also your anectdotal evidence is hardly convincing.  Children who grew up without fathers twice as likely to end up in jail.  63% of all youth suicides are from fatherless homes, 85% of children who have behavioural disorders are from fatherless homes, 71% of all high school dropouts did not have a father in the home, 70% of juveniles in detention come from father less homes.  These poor souls are also more likely to experience gender identity confusion, they are likely to be more aggresive, less likely to strive for higher education and more likely to end up in jail.   This is pretty common knowledge for anyone who has researched the subject.  These statistics are pulled from this site http://fatherhood.about.com/od/fathersrights/a/fatherless_children.htm  Which is uses many reputable sources. 

And again, I don't see how we should make exceptions to rules. So, let's say she could easily take care of the kid but didn't want to, would you not allow her to abort? I'm going to presume you're OK with abortion in any case, ergo, don't use the economy as a reason to support it.

Your presumptions are based on false stereotypes of the pro-choice crowd.  Abortion is a last resort option, like war, it should only be used when it is necessary.  The other side of the aisle always tries to paint the pro-choice crowd as being pro-abortion but this is a completely false accusation, I don't know a single person (except maddox) that is for killing babies.  The best scenario is one in which abortion never happens, but not because we don't allow it but because we don't need to resort to it.


All I need to say is that what gives you the right to make a choice for someone else? Many people kill themselves and have perfectly normal lives. Many people grow up in shitty homes and still love life. I'm not sure what gives you the right to determine whether or not a person has the right to live. Shitty life or not.

 

Look, I'm neither pro-choice or pro life, but you need to understand the flaws of both sides.



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Armads on 27 October 2010
tehsage said:
Armads said:
tehsage said:
Armads said:
tehsage said:
yo_john117 said:
Smashed said:

This is the greatest video on youtube. This man is a hero.

Something went wrong in the process of his wife's pregnancy, and there was a rare condition that left the baby with a zero percent chance of survival, that's why this guy stood up and said something.

Fuck abortion protestors, pathetic waste of human beings that should have been aborted themselves. There they are trying to promote Christianity, they are doing the complete opposite on what Christianity is all about. Ignorant fucks.

I was all ok with everything until I got to this.....thats so sad dude (stuff like this is why there can never be peace) 

I think their should only be abortion if the girl got raped or something like that condition in the OP happens.

So are you implying that the life of a rape baby is less than that of a consensual baby? :/

Not only that but apparently the life of the parent is of no meaning.  The economic condition of the mother to be could really matter less to these people.  Even if she is so poor that she can't afford to feed the child and it dies of starvation, or if the father has left and the child grows up fatherless with no role models, as long as it's not aborted right?

Again, are you implying that one persons life is more important than another's? Also, don't make such ridiculous claims. I didn't have a father growing up and I did just fine.


No I'm implying that it's unethical to bring people into this world when you know that their life would be miserable.  It's unethical to force a woman to have a child that she isn't prepared for, wasn't intending on having, and can not support.  It is but unethical to the life of the child and the mother.  Also your anectdotal evidence is hardly convincing.  Children who grew up without fathers twice as likely to end up in jail.  63% of all youth suicides are from fatherless homes, 85% of children who have behavioural disorders are from fatherless homes, 71% of all high school dropouts did not have a father in the home, 70% of juveniles in detention come from father less homes.  These poor souls are also more likely to experience gender identity confusion, they are likely to be more aggresive, less likely to strive for higher education and more likely to end up in jail.   This is pretty common knowledge for anyone who has researched the subject.  These statistics are pulled from this site http://fatherhood.about.com/od/fathersrights/a/fatherless_children.htm  Which is uses many reputable sources. 

And again, I don't see how we should make exceptions to rules. So, let's say she could easily take care of the kid but didn't want to, would you not allow her to abort? I'm going to presume you're OK with abortion in any case, ergo, don't use the economy as a reason to support it.

Your presumptions are based on false stereotypes of the pro-choice crowd.  Abortion is a last resort option, like war, it should only be used when it is necessary.  The other side of the aisle always tries to paint the pro-choice crowd as being pro-abortion but this is a completely false accusation, I don't know a single person (except maddox) that is for killing babies.  The best scenario is one in which abortion never happens, but not because we don't allow it but because we don't need to resort to it.


All I need to say is that what gives you the right to make a choice for someone else?

Brilliant way to start an argument demanding that woman abstain from having control over the processes of their own bodies.  What gives you the right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do?  Your penis?

Heck, we didn't even get into the argument over when life starts but I can tell you now that it's difficult to claim that a baby is anymore alive then the sperm and egg are.  Which our body naturally kills when we don't use them.

Many people kill themselves and have perfectly normal lives.

"Many people"?  Use some credible sources, like I did showing that most teen suicides are from people from dysfunctional households.

Many people grow up in shitty homes and still love life.

Again, using personal experience is not evidence for a valid argument.

I'm not sure what gives you the right to determine whether or not a person has the right to live. Shitty life or not.

I'm not sure what gives you the right to determine whether or not a person is going to have to become a mother. Religious/moral reasons or otherwise.

 

Look, I'm neither pro-choice or pro life, but you need to understand the flaws of both sides.


Look I take an adamant stance on the issue because I have studied it a bit.  If you can't be bothered to look up the societal malaise that unwanted/unprepared pregnancies cause on societies and peoples lives then just stay out of the debate.  I was raised in a very conservative roman catholic family.  I have seen both sides of the argument my whole life, yet you on the other hand have already demonstrated that you simply have bought into a false generalization of anyone who is pro-choice with your previous post.  You commented on my own views without actual knowledge of what they were but rather with preconceived assumptions that have been fed to you.  You really should take your own advice and attempt to understand the issue a bit more before making any comment on it.



tehsage on 27 October 2010
Armads said:
tehsage said:
Armads said:
tehsage said:
Armads said:
tehsage said:
yo_john117 said:
Smashed said:

This is the greatest video on youtube. This man is a hero.

Something went wrong in the process of his wife's pregnancy, and there was a rare condition that left the baby with a zero percent chance of survival, that's why this guy stood up and said something.

Fuck abortion protestors, pathetic waste of human beings that should have been aborted themselves. There they are trying to promote Christianity, they are doing the complete opposite on what Christianity is all about. Ignorant fucks.

I was all ok with everything until I got to this.....thats so sad dude (stuff like this is why there can never be peace) 

I think their should only be abortion if the girl got raped or something like that condition in the OP happens.

So are you implying that the life of a rape baby is less than that of a consensual baby? :/

Not only that but apparently the life of the parent is of no meaning.  The economic condition of the mother to be could really matter less to these people.  Even if she is so poor that she can't afford to feed the child and it dies of starvation, or if the father has left and the child grows up fatherless with no role models, as long as it's not aborted right?

Again, are you implying that one persons life is more important than another's? Also, don't make such ridiculous claims. I didn't have a father growing up and I did just fine.


No I'm implying that it's unethical to bring people into this world when you know that their life would be miserable.  It's unethical to force a woman to have a child that she isn't prepared for, wasn't intending on having, and can not support.  It is but unethical to the life of the child and the mother.  Also your anectdotal evidence is hardly convincing.  Children who grew up without fathers twice as likely to end up in jail.  63% of all youth suicides are from fatherless homes, 85% of children who have behavioural disorders are from fatherless homes, 71% of all high school dropouts did not have a father in the home, 70% of juveniles in detention come from father less homes.  These poor souls are also more likely to experience gender identity confusion, they are likely to be more aggresive, less likely to strive for higher education and more likely to end up in jail.   This is pretty common knowledge for anyone who has researched the subject.  These statistics are pulled from this site http://fatherhood.about.com/od/fathersrights/a/fatherless_children.htm  Which is uses many reputable sources. 

And again, I don't see how we should make exceptions to rules. So, let's say she could easily take care of the kid but didn't want to, would you not allow her to abort? I'm going to presume you're OK with abortion in any case, ergo, don't use the economy as a reason to support it.

Your presumptions are based on false stereotypes of the pro-choice crowd.  Abortion is a last resort option, like war, it should only be used when it is necessary.  The other side of the aisle always tries to paint the pro-choice crowd as being pro-abortion but this is a completely false accusation, I don't know a single person (except maddox) that is for killing babies.  The best scenario is one in which abortion never happens, but not because we don't allow it but because we don't need to resort to it.


All I need to say is that what gives you the right to make a choice for someone else?

Brilliant way to start an argument demanding that woman abstain from having control over the processes of their own bodies.  What gives you the right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do?  Your penis?

Heck, we didn't even get into the argument over when life starts but I can tell you now that it's difficult to claim that a baby is anymore alive then the sperm and egg are.  Which our body naturally kills when we don't use them.

Many people kill themselves and have perfectly normal lives.

"Many people"?  Use some credible sources, like I did showing that most teen suicides are from people from dysfunctional households.

Many people grow up in shitty homes and still love life.

Again, using personal experience is not evidence for a valid argument.

I'm not sure what gives you the right to determine whether or not a person has the right to live. Shitty life or not.

I'm not sure what gives you the right to determine whether or not a person is going to have to become a mother. Religious/moral reasons or otherwise.

 

Look, I'm neither pro-choice or pro life, but you need to understand the flaws of both sides.


Look I take an adamant stance on the issue because I have studied it a bit.  If you can't be bothered to look up the societal malaise that unwanted/unprepared pregnancies cause on societies and peoples lives then just stay out of the debate.  I was raised in a very conservative roman catholic family.  I have seen both sides of the argument my whole life, yet you on the other hand have already demonstrated that you simply have bought into a false generalization of anyone who is pro-choice with your previous post.  You commented on my own views without actual knowledge of what they were but rather with preconceived assumptions that have been fed to you.  You really should take your own advice and attempt to understand the issue a bit more before making any comment on it.

You've yet to answer my question: What gives one person the right to decide of another person can live? Why does the mother have the right to decide that the child will hate their life and not want to live in it? I guess I should have asked you this before: What do you define as a "person"?



zgamer5 on 27 October 2010

abortion is the choice of the girl.

no offense to anyone but many teen age girls and boys are retarted, many girls will get knocked up even if they didnt intend to.

people should have a choice. humans are created by us, not by god, we have a choice.



Being in 3rd place never felt so good

tehsage on 27 October 2010
zgamer5 said:

abortion is the choice of the girl.

no offense to anyone but many teen age girls and boys are retarted, many girls will get knocked up even if they didnt intend to.

people should have a choice. humans are created by us, not by god, we have a choice.


What about the unborn child? What about their choice? Tell me that a child isn't a person and I'll agree with you. Until then, I don't.



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Armads on 27 October 2010
tehsage said:

You've yet to answer my question: What gives one person the right to decide of another person can live? Why does the mother have the right to decide that the child will hate their life and not want to live in it? I guess I should have asked you this before: What do you define as a "person"?


Okay, I'll come back to this later. I have school until 4 then I got some homework to do, I'll probably procrastinate and answer you before I do that but here's a summary.


When does life start?

Possible answers:

-At conception

-at Birth

-At some point during the pregnancy cycle

 

What is the most ethical choice in the event of an unwanted/unprepared pregnancy?

Possible answers:

-Force the mother to raise the child

-Force the mother to birth the child for adoption

-Allow the mother the option to choose from the above two choices as well as the option of abortion

 

These along with some other questions will be answered when I have more time to delve into the topic completely.  I don't want to give you a half assed answer.



tehsage on 27 October 2010
Armads said:
tehsage said:

You've yet to answer my question: What gives one person the right to decide of another person can live? Why does the mother have the right to decide that the child will hate their life and not want to live in it? I guess I should have asked you this before: What do you define as a "person"?


Okay, I'll come back to this later. I have school until 4 then I got some homework to do, I'll probably procrastinate and answer you before I do that but here's a summary.


When does life start?

Possible answers:

-At conception

-at Birth

-At some point during the pregnancy cycle

 

What is the most ethical choice in the event of an unwanted/unprepared pregnancy?

Possible answers:

-Force the mother to raise the child

-Force the mother to birth the child for adoption

-Allow the mother the option to choose from the above two choices as well as the option of abortion

 

These along with some other questions will be answered when I have more time to delve into the topic completely.  I don't want to give you a half assed answer.


I appreciate that. I have some work I should be doing. We shall continue our discussion tonight, yes?



zgamer5 on 27 October 2010
tehsage said:
zgamer5 said:

abortion is the choice of the girl.

no offense to anyone but many teen age girls and boys are retarted, many girls will get knocked up even if they didnt intend to.

people should have a choice. humans are created by us, not by god, we have a choice.


What about the unborn child? What about their choice? Tell me that a child isn't a person and I'll agree with you. Until then, I don't.

they have no choice, lifes tough, the world is a dystopia.

the mom is doing them a favor by having an abortion.



Being in 3rd place never felt so good

Smashed on 27 October 2010
tehsage said:
zgamer5 said:

abortion is the choice of the girl.

no offense to anyone but many teen age girls and boys are retarted, many girls will get knocked up even if they didnt intend to.

people should have a choice. humans are created by us, not by god, we have a choice.


What about the unborn child? What about their choice? Tell me that a child isn't a person and I'll agree with you. Until then, I don't.


The baby the girl was carrying had a rare congenital disease. She had every reason to abort it, it would have died either way at birth.

And if people wish to abort, the individuals that created the baby, can very well end it before it's born and have every right to.



Mummelmann on 27 October 2010
tehsage said:
zgamer5 said:

abortion is the choice of the girl.

no offense to anyone but many teen age girls and boys are retarted, many girls will get knocked up even if they didnt intend to.

people should have a choice. humans are created by us, not by god, we have a choice.


What about the unborn child? What about their choice? Tell me that a child isn't a person and I'll agree with you. Until then, I don't.


And what gives you (or anyone else) the right to deny women to have abortions? It is an equally interesting question. This is one of those subjects where the two sides will never agree in the slightest.