In the end, if you buy a girl gifts, take her out to a movie, or dinner, you're paying for it.  Don't fool yourself.  And don't dare question my "game"-video or otherwise.

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/10/18/fallout-3-dlc.aspx

As I sit here I realize, multi-platform games have loved the 360 for quite some time now.  It was only recently that Steam went head over heels with Sony, but of course no remembers when Steam bashed the hell out of the PS3.

Anyone that says 360 is anti developer, tell that to all the developers who make bank off of the 360.

http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/82425/americas-preorders-chart-16-october-2010-fallout-new-vegas/

Long-term sales for multi-platforms do quite well on the 360 when compared to the PS3:

Modern Warfare 1 & 2, Assassin's Creed, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Grand Theft Auto IV, Read Dead Redemption, Medal of Honor(new one), Rock Band 1 & 2, Dragon Age, BioShock 2, Madden (all), BFBC2, BFBC1, and many many more.

I will concede that soccer games do do better on the PS3, but I'm pretty sure that's about it.

And on top of that, XBL actually has games on demand, which Sony has already stated they will never have because they use "Blu-Ray" discs.  Yeah, well what about all of the multi-platforms?

Companies do have to pay for a DLC fee in order to get their DLC on the XBL, XBL sells far more DLC then PSN.

To say that the 360 doesn't help developers is insane.  Again, the only reason Sony doesn't charge for a lot of stuff is because the CAN'T.  If they did, they would literally be out of business.  By not making as much money as their competition, they have barely been able to stay in the race.  Only early THIS year did Sony actually start to make money, and that was after years of annual losses.

We are on VGCharts and we haven't even said all that yet?  Glad I'm here.

this isnt 2008 things have changed now. and were talking about xbl currently being woth it or not.

this isnt about the 360 helping devs, its about live being worth it, what does this have with sony making money or devs making money?

their is a difference beetween furstrating and helping.

my kid is on my Pc and im posting from my phone. not being able to reply directly is killing me! I'll make this short and sweet; just because something isn't valuable to you guys above me doesn't mean they arent of value to others. i have a PC obviously but I use netflix and last FM all the time (use netflix on all consoles and PC but 360 was the reason I subscribed years ago).

If you guys don't see the value in live, don't use it.  The PS3 and 360 are presenting themselves as more than just gaming systems.  That's where the featres list come in.  I didn't list things like blu-ray on PS3 or custom soundtracks on 360 because this is about Live's value.  Maybe Live vs PSN vs Wii vs PC.  But for me and many others, the feature list means something.

(thia is getting long!) Features that influence gameplay: multiple accounts logged in on a single console at one, leaderboards for all games, cross game chat, true skill, recomendations, voice messages, mute other players in all games, annouces when a friend is playing the same game as you (not sure if ps3 does this-never had it happen) party system,

I'll return later.

Maybe if Sony actually invested in improving their features you would have an actual good reason to ask that question. However firmware upgrades and PSN come out of Japan and Japan doesn't get the importance of online gaming. It wouldn't hold your breath.

Just throwing this out there, but as a PS3 fanboy and not using much of Live I will say that for what you do get in Gold is worth 60 dollars (70 now?).  Now what I'm going to talk about , I have no idea if it's available for silver or not, but the ability to download my profile to any 360 with all my games, to be able to download my saves to any 360 and keep up cloud storage, demos, videos, etc, match making, cross game catch etc, is worth the 60 dollars you spend and that alone makes it worth the money.  Now they added ESPN and other stuff (I'm not including facebook integration or anything like that cause let's be frank, use a PC or your PS3's web browser.  Hell your mobile phone would probably be better to use) and they raised the price of Live and that is worth it for the extras.  Now here's where the counter argument comes into play; game hosts.  That's the most crucial part of gold, playing games online.  You can cut all that crap out and the most important thing is playing games.  Here's the argument against Live; games have become peer to peer and you're now paying money to use your bandwidth that you're already paying for to host a game.  That to me is fail and you can't argue against that cause now Microsoft is charging you to use something that costs you money.  It's like paying for the air you breath, it's ludicrus.   Now before on the X-box all games had access to dedicated servers and it's all gone now, and I personally feel anyone paying for Live to just play games is essentially having their money stolen by Microsoft.  And that is personally why I refuse to pay for Live.  Now with that out of the way the overall service is very good, integrated well, and has a lot of features and Microsoft was ahead of the game with its cloud storage of profiles and such (Though Steam might be able to match it, though I don't use steam much to see if it works as well).  On another note: as far as I know the price is going up here in Canada and we're getting none of the features that have driven up the costs (ESPN and probably other things, though I'm sure the ESPN deal was the major cost increase).  To sum up is Live better than PSN?  Of course it is, it's quite better and is worth every penny.  But on the other hand if I only want to play games with my friends, the core of the service,  it's a huge ripoff; why?  Cause Microsoft is paying for nothing outside of their match making servers and cross game chat.  Now I put this idea foward: turn Gold into a core account charge the minimum to run cross game chat and match making servers, and add on a small price hike for a profit.  Move all that extra non-game related stuff and the extra game related stuff (cloud storage) and put that into a platinum and charge whatever the hell they want.  If I had people playing on the 360 only that I want to play with; I'll gladly pay a smaller fee for just the core service of match making and cross game chat, kinda like what Sony did (PSN regular for gaming is gaming only and free, everything else extra you don't care about is on a fee, if you want it then go right ahead and pay for it).  Now can we stop having these threads?  There's a bajillion of these in the forums already going over these points.

Just Cause 2 sold better on PS3, so did Bayonetta, Tekken 6, Street Fighter 4...just about any japanese made multiplat game sells better onPS3   just throwing that out there