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Forums - General - The death penalty.

Khuutra on 16 October 2010
huaxiong90 said:
Khuutra said:

In point of fact, repeat offenses for released murderers aren't really any higher in countries that don't have the death penalty. That reasoning doesn't work.

Are you telling me crime rates in various countries are dependent on the same variables? Are you telling me that crime rates don't naturally vary based on country?

The only way to determine the effeciency of murder deterrence is by looking at how crime rates were affected after an abolishment of capital punishment, NOT by comparing countries, and history shows (in the US) that murders have skyrocketed. Not only that, but look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_McDuff

Now if he had been executed right off the bat...13 lives could've been saved.

States without the death penalty do not have higher recidivism than those that do.

Cite some studies that show that murder rates go up with an abolition of capital punishment.



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huaxiong90 on 16 October 2010
Khuutra said:
huaxiong90 said:
Khuutra said:

In point of fact, repeat offenses for released murderers aren't really any higher in countries that don't have the death penalty. That reasoning doesn't work.

Are you telling me crime rates in various countries are dependent on the same variables? Are you telling me that crime rates don't naturally vary based on country?

The only way to determine the effeciency of murder deterrence is by looking at how crime rates were affected after an abolishment of capital punishment, NOT by comparing countries, and history shows (in the US) that murders have skyrocketed. Not only that, but look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_McDuff

Now if he had been executed right off the bat...13 lives could've been saved.

States without the death penalty do not have higher recidivism than those that do.

Cite some studies that show that murder rates go up with an abolition of capital punishment.

Sure, here you go:

Again, as with countries, states vary too.



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Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Khuutra on 16 October 2010
huaxiong90 said:
Khuutra said:

States without the death penalty do not have higher recidivism than those that do.

Cite some studies that show that murder rates go up with an abolition of capital punishment.

Sure, here you go:

Again, as with countries, states vary too.

Oh word? Where's that from, exactly?

For food for your thoughts:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fHIlX6nFCRoJ:www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/JLpaper.pdf

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/dward/classes/compoliss/copyrightedarticles/Bailey&Peterson.html

Don't act like an undergrad: corrolation and causation are not the same thing.



huaxiong90 on 16 October 2010
Khuutra said:
huaxiong90 said:
Khuutra said:

States without the death penalty do not have higher recidivism than those that do.

Cite some studies that show that murder rates go up with an abolition of capital punishment.

Sure, here you go:

Again, as with countries, states vary too.

Oh word? Where's that from, exactly?

Umm...the source is there for you to see. It's at the bottom of the page. So are you telling me it's just coincidence?

Now as for the links: I'll read through them when I have the time (I bookmarked 'em). Meanwhile, you can look at this:

http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html

Tell me what you think.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Khuutra on 16 October 2010
huaxiong90 said:
Khuutra said:

Oh word? Where's that from, exactly?

Umm...the source is there for you to see. It's at the bottom of the page. So are you telling me it's just coincidence?

Now as for the links: I'll read through them when I have the time (I bookmarked 'em). Meanwhile, you can look at this:

http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html

Tell me what you think.

I'm not for any kind of argument that begins with emotional appeals.



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Alby_da_Wolf on 16 October 2010
TheRealMafoo said:

In the US, I am against the federal government executing people. The Constitution forbids the federal government from taking your life. States can do whatever they want however, as the US Constitution only limits the federal government. Each state has a right to make there own call on what there Constitution says.

As a personal postion, I have no problem with it. If you committed horrific crimes, you have given up your opportunity for me to care about you.

I guess the only issue I have with it from a moral position, is sometimes they are wrongfully accuses, and killed when they didn't commit the crime. This is far less then activists would want you to believe, but I am sure it has happened a few times.

Far less? I wouldn't be so sure, the cases where death penalty was inflicted due to the early, now considered quite unreliable, DNA tests, and where the defence was denied a new, more reliable test, are in quite large number. Not to mention that where complicity in a murder can receive up to the same penalty for murder, the possibility that the actual murderer accept plea bargaining first and receives a smaller penalty, while accomplices receive death penalty, is a legal abomination.

And also: accepting death penalty for murder, in case an innocent is executed, wouldn't be fair to execute judge, jury and executioner? I know that if an innocent person I love were unjustly executed, I'd kill them.



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huaxiong90 on 16 October 2010
Khuutra said:
huaxiong90 said:
Khuutra said:

Oh word? Where's that from, exactly?

Umm...the source is there for you to see. It's at the bottom of the page. So are you telling me it's just coincidence?

Now as for the links: I'll read through them when I have the time (I bookmarked 'em). Meanwhile, you can look at this:

http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html

Tell me what you think.

I'm not for any kind of argument that begins with emotional appeals.

Fair enough, I understand it's not written in the most objective manner, and I also acknowledge some arguments are a stretch.

I'm just asking you to look at the main arguments which have sources backing up his claims.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Khuutra on 16 October 2010
huaxiong90 said:
Khuutra said:

I'm not for any kind of argument that begins with emotional appeals.

Fair enough, I understand it's not written in the most objective manner, and I also acknowledge some arguments are a stretch.

I'm just asking you to look at the main arguments which have sources backing up his claims.

His sources are specious and his arguments are too emotional to be convincing. His assumption that the death penalty is a result of higher crime rates rather than the other way around is fallacious; it assumes causation because of correlation, which ignores dozens of intervening factors.



Nirvana_Nut85 on 16 October 2010

I'm pretty much against capital punishment, I'd say 95%. The only scenario where I think someone should be executed is if they kill a child or are a pedophile who has "touched" a child in a sexual way.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

deskpro2k3 on 16 October 2010

death is to good for them.