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Forums - General - Best Modern President?

 

Best Modern President?

Barack Obama 44 20.85%
 
George W. Bush 21 9.95%
 
Bill Clinton 90 42.65%
 
George H.W. Bush 4 1.90%
 
Ronald Reagan 47 22.27%
 
Jimmy Carter 5 2.37%
 
Total:211
halogamer1989 on 12 October 2010
pacman91 said:
Mr Khan said:
pacman91 said:
Mr Khan said:

Lyndon Johnson forever. The last effective expansion of social welfare programs (TBD. We'll see if Obama gets a chance to more aggressively expand the new health care plans), and he crushed racism in a way that even Obama is too scared to tackle. It's too bad that Vietnam has effectively alienated him from the bleeding-heart set, because otherwise he could be more of an idol to liberals than Reagan is to conservatives
  • Government run health care is a joke
  • LBJ was an awful wartime president
  • how did LBJ crush racism?

The Civil Rights act, the Constitutional Amendment to support the Civil Rights Act, i mean, he was a Southern Democrat who declared War on the Klan, and provided the top-down impetus to help MLK and his movement to get as far as they did. And the war on poverty was the most noble endeavor undertaken since the New Deal, but the problem was Johnson couldn't support the two Wars simultaneously

Vietnam is a black mark against him historically, but domestically he's possibly one of the best we've ever had, ever. Kinda the opposite of Nixon, who really played foreign affairs well (opening China was a genius move), but had one of the most horrid domestic agendas out of the set

I guess from a policy stand point he did as much as a president could to combat blantant, violent racism. To that extent you are correct.  I guess laying down the framework...yeah I can see that. Really that's all he needed to do.

As far as combatting poverty with ineffiecient government programs and not being able to effectively lead the nation in a war, he's not a great president in my eyes. But I guess we'll agree to disagree on the economics/poverty issue.

Interesting comparison between Nixon and LBJ. The Irony was in the 68 election Nixon was painted to be more likely to purge the U.S. into vietnam(more than we already were).


Hate to cut into this one but Khan how would you view Johnson if I told you that the CRA was purely political not a personal belief of his?  The only reason Eisenhower wasn't able to pass it was because Speaker Johnson didn't want to get his political clock cleaned since he was from Texas (a very conservative and racist Democratic state at that time).

Johnson was a very shrewd politician but he was not great. Everything he did was to save his own skin or to benefit the then collapsing Democratic Party.



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fighter on 12 October 2010

There is no good president in that list.

 

Clinton and Obama are OK - the first one had more work done as he didn't inherit Bush Jr's disastrous administration

Bush Jr. was an aberration from beginning to end - and there is actually no equivalent in any other real & modern democracy

The rest is meh / meh / meh



Mr Khan on 12 October 2010
halogamer1989 said:
pacman91 said:
Mr Khan said:
pacman91 said:
Mr Khan said:

Lyndon Johnson forever. The last effective expansion of social welfare programs (TBD. We'll see if Obama gets a chance to more aggressively expand the new health care plans), and he crushed racism in a way that even Obama is too scared to tackle. It's too bad that Vietnam has effectively alienated him from the bleeding-heart set, because otherwise he could be more of an idol to liberals than Reagan is to conservatives
  • Government run health care is a joke
  • LBJ was an awful wartime president
  • how did LBJ crush racism?

The Civil Rights act, the Constitutional Amendment to support the Civil Rights Act, i mean, he was a Southern Democrat who declared War on the Klan, and provided the top-down impetus to help MLK and his movement to get as far as they did. And the war on poverty was the most noble endeavor undertaken since the New Deal, but the problem was Johnson couldn't support the two Wars simultaneously

Vietnam is a black mark against him historically, but domestically he's possibly one of the best we've ever had, ever. Kinda the opposite of Nixon, who really played foreign affairs well (opening China was a genius move), but had one of the most horrid domestic agendas out of the set

I guess from a policy stand point he did as much as a president could to combat blantant, violent racism. To that extent you are correct.  I guess laying down the framework...yeah I can see that. Really that's all he needed to do.

As far as combatting poverty with ineffiecient government programs and not being able to effectively lead the nation in a war, he's not a great president in my eyes. But I guess we'll agree to disagree on the economics/poverty issue.

Interesting comparison between Nixon and LBJ. The Irony was in the 68 election Nixon was painted to be more likely to purge the U.S. into vietnam(more than we already were).


Hate to cut into this one but Khan how would you view Johnson if I told you that the CRA was purely political not a personal belief of his?  The only reason Eisenhower wasn't able to pass it was because Speaker Johnson didn't want to get his political clock cleaned since he was from Texas (a very conservative and racist Democratic state at that time).

Johnson was a very shrewd politician but he was not great. Everything he did was to save his own skin or to benefit the then collapsing Democratic Party.

Motive is a non-issue. Results are, though i suppose it does mean that Eisenhower deserves more credit than he's been given (though he made progress in his own way. His enforcement of Brown strengthened the basis of the pushes in the 60s)



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halogamer1989 on 12 October 2010
Mr Khan said:
halogamer1989 said:
pacman91 said:
Mr Khan said:
pacman91 said:
Mr Khan said:

Lyndon Johnson forever. The last effective expansion of social welfare programs (TBD. We'll see if Obama gets a chance to more aggressively expand the new health care plans), and he crushed racism in a way that even Obama is too scared to tackle. It's too bad that Vietnam has effectively alienated him from the bleeding-heart set, because otherwise he could be more of an idol to liberals than Reagan is to conservatives
  • Government run health care is a joke
  • LBJ was an awful wartime president
  • how did LBJ crush racism?

The Civil Rights act, the Constitutional Amendment to support the Civil Rights Act, i mean, he was a Southern Democrat who declared War on the Klan, and provided the top-down impetus to help MLK and his movement to get as far as they did. And the war on poverty was the most noble endeavor undertaken since the New Deal, but the problem was Johnson couldn't support the two Wars simultaneously

Vietnam is a black mark against him historically, but domestically he's possibly one of the best we've ever had, ever. Kinda the opposite of Nixon, who really played foreign affairs well (opening China was a genius move), but had one of the most horrid domestic agendas out of the set

I guess from a policy stand point he did as much as a president could to combat blantant, violent racism. To that extent you are correct.  I guess laying down the framework...yeah I can see that. Really that's all he needed to do.

As far as combatting poverty with ineffiecient government programs and not being able to effectively lead the nation in a war, he's not a great president in my eyes. But I guess we'll agree to disagree on the economics/poverty issue.

Interesting comparison between Nixon and LBJ. The Irony was in the 68 election Nixon was painted to be more likely to purge the U.S. into vietnam(more than we already were).


Hate to cut into this one but Khan how would you view Johnson if I told you that the CRA was purely political not a personal belief of his?  The only reason Eisenhower wasn't able to pass it was because Speaker Johnson didn't want to get his political clock cleaned since he was from Texas (a very conservative and racist Democratic state at that time).

Johnson was a very shrewd politician but he was not great. Everything he did was to save his own skin or to benefit the then collapsing Democratic Party.

Motive is a non-issue. Results are, though i suppose it does mean that Eisenhower deserves more credit than he's been given (though he made progress in his own way. His enforcement of Brown strengthened the basis of the pushes in the 60s)

Agreed. I always question the background behind the result, though. Politics is a dirty biz and everything has a motivation, result or no result. Trust me--been there doing that (Nov. 2 can't come soon enough so I can take a break :) )



HappySqurriel on 12 October 2010
fighter said:

There is no good president in that list.

 

Clinton and Obama are OK - the first one had more work done as he didn't inherit Bush Jr's disastrous administration

Bush Jr. was an aberration from beginning to end - and there is actually no equivalent in any other real & modern democracy

The rest is meh / meh / meh


Not to (really) defend George W. Bush, but I think a lot of the criticism he receives is not really justified ...

When you consider how many of the problems that define the Bush administration were caused by things outside of his control, or were based on decisions that were fully supported by both political parties (and the American people at the time) it isn't unreasonable to suggest that Al Gore or John Kerry's presidency would have been just as problematic; and a lot of what people "hate" Bush for are problems that were a result of the time of his presidency, and not necessarily problems because of his presidency.

On top of that, we get to see the results of the choices he made and we can never know the results of the choices he didn't make; and at times I see people assuming perfect outcomes from the opposite decisions. Some people (like me) might argue that the loose monetary policy and questionable lending practices during the Bush administration encouraged a housing bubble that crowded out conventional economic growth; but you have to consider that this conventional growth might not have happened in the absence of these (insane) policies, and the US could have experienced a lost decade in the wake of the dot-com bubble and 9/11.

I'm not saying Bush was a good president because I really think he wasn't that good of a president, but I do think it is fair to say that he (probably) had the most challenging presidency of any of the ones in this poll; and a very good president might only look average if they were running the country at the same time.



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amp316 on 12 October 2010

Clinton easily.  He was sandwiched in between the Bushs' so it made him look even better though.

Jimmy Carter was the nicest guy but that's sometimes a problem sometimes when you're the president.  See the Iran hostage fiasco. 



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ManusJustus on 12 October 2010

No love for Jimmy Carter.  His time in office aside, I do think he made a great ex-president.



MARCUSDJACKSON on 12 October 2010

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fighter on 12 October 2010
HappySqurriel said:
fighter said:

There is no good president in that list.

 

Clinton and Obama are OK - the first one had more work done as he didn't inherit Bush Jr's disastrous administration

Bush Jr. was an aberration from beginning to end - and there is actually no equivalent in any other real & modern democracy

The rest is meh / meh / meh


Not to (really) defend George W. Bush, but I think a lot of the criticism he receives is not really justified ...

When you consider how many of the problems that define the Bush administration were caused by things outside of his control, or were based on decisions that were fully supported by both political parties (and the American people at the time) it isn't unreasonable to suggest that Al Gore or John Kerry's presidency would have been just as problematic; and a lot of what people "hate" Bush for are problems that were a result of the time of his presidency, and not necessarily problems because of his presidency.

On top of that, we get to see the results of the choices he made and we can never know the results of the choices he didn't make; and at times I see people assuming perfect outcomes from the opposite decisions. Some people (like me) might argue that the loose monetary policy and questionable lending practices during the Bush administration encouraged a housing bubble that crowded out conventional economic growth; but you have to consider that this conventional growth might not have happened in the absence of these (insane) policies, and the US could have experienced a lost decade in the wake of the dot-com bubble and 9/11.

I'm not saying Bush was a good president because I really think he wasn't that good of a president, but I do think it is fair to say that he (probably) had the most challenging presidency of any of the ones in this poll; and a very good president might only look average if they were running the country at the same time.

... ok ... honestly this shouldn't even be debatable ... at least we can agree Bush gave the impression his presidency was really, really hard...



mrstickball on 12 October 2010
ManusJustus said:

No love for Jimmy Carter.  His time in office aside, I do think he made a great ex-president.

Agreed.

History has had a lot of bad presidents, but great people. Herbert Hoover was the same way. He became president because of the humanitarian aid he gave to Europe after World War 1. Even after he retired, FDR asked him to help out due to his extensive knowledge of Europe and how to aid after WW2.

Carter was and is an excellent man. I disagree with how he ran the country, but you can't aruge that Habitat for Humanity is anything less than excellent.

I think Obama may be the same way when all is said and done - bad president, good guy.



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