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Forums - PC - Dear Blizzard, please fix Starcraft II

zarx said:

that could be interesting, but kinda worries me a little that they may hurt Terran to much with that especially vs Zerg, oh well they should know what they are doing. Oh and I heard via twitter that there will be some map changes http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/761328#blog 

Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine have been removed from the 1v1 ladder pool and replaced with Jungle Basin and Shakuras Plateau, respectively. While Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine are no longer available for 1v1 ladder games, they remain playable in custom games.

I heard about the new maps, I heard they're the worst maps for Zerg yet, though I haven't seen them in action myself so I don't know. At least they took out Kulas Ravine, that map was awful. As one of the commentators for the GSL said "If you're one of the 7 Zerg players that hasn't checked off this map..." That pretty much summed it up right there =P

But I LOVED DO. It's so vastly different from most other maps, I'm kind of sad they took it out. I guess they want less variety so everyone can use the same builds on every map.



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twesterm said:
c0rd said:

For zerg it's more like, 

Spawning pool -> Baneling's nest. Slaughters the marines, speedlings clean up.


No offense, but if you're new to the game or haven't yet learned how to play reasonably well (not asking for pro level here, but at least platinum), you shouldn't really be criticizing the balance of the game. Seems like what I'm seeing all over this thread.


As for 3's / 4's, yeah, if by "rushes" you mean early timed pushes, it's definitely powerful. I taught my (~gold level) friends build orders for each race for nasty ~6min timed pushes (4min real time). Once we got the hang of it, all playing random, we've crushed nearly every opponent we've come across, players who are far better individually than we are (though I'm high diamond).

But then, was Starcraft 1 any different? Can't say I've seen too many 3v3 / 4v4's, so I dunno

If you're playing with people in you know in 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 games and have a strategy you should always win because even though you're playing in a set team you'll still play against people that are playing in random teams.

Oh, I know that - I meant, even without that factor considered. Since we look at the records of the people we face after every game, you can tell if it was arranged or not. Assuming someone didn't already go, "My teammates suck!", and subsequently quit the game first, of course!



Hephaestos said:

I play mostly 3vs 3 and 4vs 4... there is where rush is most overpowered... cause you seldom get help from "buddies" and even if you built a defence  you're toast.

 

The reason terrans rush better is because their basic unit has range... so more of them breaking your wall at once.

 

Also the dropship is overpowered....a small terran squad kills drones pretty fast, but if they are also healed, it's impossible to kill them with early game units.


I can't speak for zerg since I don't play zerg, but marines are pushovers.  A simple force field will stop them dead in their tracks and speedy zealots destroy marines and marauders. 

If you're really worried about the medivac, just kill it first with your void rays since the opponent obviously gave you time to tech up.

I imagine if you're zerg, build mutalisks and destroy their supply line?  Just keep harrassing with those and don't let SCV's live.  Their giant ball of marines might hurt you but if they aren't getting any minerals and you are, you should win.  In the meantime they will be busy building vikings so you should be busy building something that vikings don't do well again (I don't play zerg so I'm not sure what that is).



twesterm said:
RageBot said:
twesterm said:
 

Starcraft II is all about letting the other person make a mistake before you do.  If that mistake is not preparing for a rush, you win.  If I rush, see you've prepared for it, and then keep rushing, they win.


What league/rank are you playing on?

I just find what you said kinda... wrong (I thought that way about the game once)

I'm silver (just recently promoted from bronze and ranked 3 in silver actually ) but that came from my diamond buddy.

If you're a better player, the other person will make a mistake first.  When they make that mistake, take advantage of it.

He isn't saying hold of on attacking, he's saying pick and choose your battles and don't be greedy.


Yeah, I think I misunderstood you :P

My former style was waiting until my opponent will attack, I will win against his units (and that happened almost always) and then I move out and win.

However, when I played against pepole who fast expanded, I just lost every game, since I didn't attack.



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

twesterm said:
Hephaestos said:

I play mostly 3vs 3 and 4vs 4... there is where rush is most overpowered... cause you seldom get help from "buddies" and even if you built a defence  you're toast.

 

The reason terrans rush better is because their basic unit has range... so more of them breaking your wall at once.

 

Also the dropship is overpowered....a small terran squad kills drones pretty fast, but if they are also healed, it's impossible to kill them with early game units.


I can't speak for zerg since I don't play zerg, but marines are pushovers.  A simple force field will stop them dead in their tracks and speedy zealots destroy marines and marauders. 

If you're really worried about the medivac, just kill it first with your void rays since the opponent obviously gave you time to tech up.

I imagine if you're zerg, build mutalisks and destroy their supply line?  Just keep harrassing with those and don't let SCV's live.  Their giant ball of marines might hurt you but if they aren't getting any minerals and you are, you should win.  In the meantime they will be busy building vikings so you should be busy building something that vikings don't do well again (I don't play zerg so I'm not sure what that is).

Vikings are nasty against Zerg. They kite mutas, counter corrupters, and run from hydras. Really, the only way, and best way, to kill vikings is FG hydras. You need 2 units types to stop them. The same for Phoes, though you can kind of stop phoes with corrupters.

Mutas get RAPED by even 1 thor or 1-2 missle turrets. It's not hard for Terran to prevent muta harass. Actually, Terran has the easiest time with muta harass. You can magic box and hold position to not both with the thor while you take out scvs, but still, it's less than optimal.



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RageBot said:
twesterm said:
RageBot said:
twesterm said:
 

Starcraft II is all about letting the other person make a mistake before you do.  If that mistake is not preparing for a rush, you win.  If I rush, see you've prepared for it, and then keep rushing, they win.


What league/rank are you playing on?

I just find what you said kinda... wrong (I thought that way about the game once)

I'm silver (just recently promoted from bronze and ranked 3 in silver actually ) but that came from my diamond buddy.

If you're a better player, the other person will make a mistake first.  When they make that mistake, take advantage of it.

He isn't saying hold of on attacking, he's saying pick and choose your battles and don't be greedy.


Yeah, I think I misunderstood you :P

My former style was waiting until my opponent will attack, I will win against his units (and that happened almost always) and then I move out and win.

However, when I played against pepole who fast expanded, I just lost every game, since I didn't attack.


Yes, mistakes are key. My friend and I have a 2s team, we were rank 8 dia the other day (we haven't played for a week though) and we essentially rely on mistakes. And trust me, even the best players make mistakes.

You should never 'wait' for your opponent to attack. If he's scouting you just chilling, he'll take the whole map. It's not about you letting people FE as much as it is you're letting them macro as much as they want. So while you're building a few units, they're getting 5-6 upgrades, fully teching up, and making 10 units.

You don't have to be aggressive, but you do have to put on pressure, especially if you play Terran.



RageBot said:
Hephaestos said:

barracks -> factory -> starport

pretty fast to get running

to counter it you need either:

 

Warpgate -> Forge -> cibernetix/photon tower

or

Spawningpool -> Hive -> hydralisk den

 

if you're terran then yes it's easier, you have marines already... they should make zerglins have a little spit ability, same for protos, photon blades throwing, then yeah it'd be balanced...

 

it's pretty much just as fast.... but you need to build a couple of units after it...

Are you like... low bronze or something?

1. You don't need Forge for Cyber.

2. You don't need ranged units against dropship, since you don't need to kill it, you need to kill the units dropped..


1 oops

2 and marines with a heal have the time to kill half your dones...

 

why do you say low bronze? to make you look good as high bronze? :p



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c0rd said:
Hephaestos said:

barracks -> factory -> starport

pretty fast to get running

to counter it you need either:

 

Warpgate -> Forge -> cibernetix/photon tower

or

Spawningpool -> Hive -> hydralisk den

For zerg it's more like, 

Spawning pool -> Baneling's nest. Slaughters the marines, speedlings clean up.


No offense, but if you're new to the game or haven't yet learned how to play reasonably well (not asking for pro level here, but at least platinum), you shouldn't really be criticizing the balance of the game. Seems like what I'm seeing all over this thread.


As for 3's / 4's, yeah, if by "rushes" you mean early timed pushes, it's definitely powerful. I taught my (~gold level) friends build orders for each race for nasty ~6min timed pushes (4min real time). Once we got the hang of it, all playing random, we've crushed nearly every opponent we've come across, players who are far better individually than we are (though I'm high diamond).

But then, was Starcraft 1 any different? Can't say I've seen too many 3v3 / 4v4's, so I dunno


so basically to not get dropshiped rush, just change your whole early build strat, then what do I do then when the void rays arrive and I don't have my mutas or hydras?... I'm in no way as experienced as you it seems, so it's true you probably know more about balance than I do, but you play as a team... i'm stuck with random players that pratically never help when you're attacked.

oh and I barely played SC1 multi... for W3 i prefered flavor games, so yeah you can call me average joe as far as online RTS goes.

Anyways, I would guess that the leagues are in a pyramidal shape so there's little diamonds and oh so many bronze ones. You can't expect the majority of the people to be happy if the game is balanced perfectly only for the diamond guys... 90% of my games are won or lost because some other player died with no defence on either team. (oh and the matchups are sometimes way too ridiculous, in my early bronze games, I was teamed with plat players that got raped... I was happy when the 3 opposing armies arrived on my poorly build base.).



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Hephaestos said:
RageBot said:
Hephaestos said:

barracks -> factory -> starport

pretty fast to get running

to counter it you need either:

 

Warpgate -> Forge -> cibernetix/photon tower

or

Spawningpool -> Hive -> hydralisk den

 

if you're terran then yes it's easier, you have marines already... they should make zerglins have a little spit ability, same for protos, photon blades throwing, then yeah it'd be balanced...

 

it's pretty much just as fast.... but you need to build a couple of units after it...

Are you like... low bronze or something?

1. You don't need Forge for Cyber.

2. You don't need ranged units against dropship, since you don't need to kill it, you need to kill the units dropped..


1 oops

2 and marines with a heal have the time to kill half your dones...

 

why do you say low bronze? to make you look good as high bronze? :p


Nah, high gold, though i'll probably go up to plat soon, everyone I played lately was 20-10 plat.

And no, he shouldn't have any time killing your drones since you should be moving them away :P
If you can't see it coming at all, practice on reacting faster, and/or scouting better around your mineral line, so that when you see enemy units in the mini-map you can retreat your workers straight away.



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

RageBot said:
Hephaestos said:
RageBot said:
Hephaestos said:

barracks -> factory -> starport

pretty fast to get running

to counter it you need either:

 

Warpgate -> Forge -> cibernetix/photon tower

or

Spawningpool -> Hive -> hydralisk den

 

if you're terran then yes it's easier, you have marines already... they should make zerglins have a little spit ability, same for protos, photon blades throwing, then yeah it'd be balanced...

 

it's pretty much just as fast.... but you need to build a couple of units after it...

Are you like... low bronze or something?

1. You don't need Forge for Cyber.

2. You don't need ranged units against dropship, since you don't need to kill it, you need to kill the units dropped..


1 oops

2 and marines with a heal have the time to kill half your dones...

 

why do you say low bronze? to make you look good as high bronze? :p


Nah, high gold, though i'll probably go up to plat soon, everyone I played lately was 20-10 plat.

And no, he shouldn't have any time killing your drones since you should be moving them away :P
If you can't see it coming at all, practice on reacting faster, and/or scouting better around your mineral line, so that when you see enemy units in the mini-map you can retreat your workers straight away.

Yeah, forgot to talk about moving workers.  If people are attacking your workers, move them.  If you know your workers are fucked from ground forces, attack with them! 

Zergling rushes use to always screw me until someone told me probes do a pretty decent job at killing zerglings.  If I don't have a zealot handy for whatever reason, 5-6 probes will do in a pinch while I'm building a zealot.

Also, I almost always have something near my opponents ramp.  Keeping a scout inside your opponets base isn't always easy but putting a pylon or a marine or whatever at your opponents ramp does a good job at telling you when they're sending something your way.