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Forums - Gaming - Motion Controls should slow down the action.

whatever said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

What I mean is that no matter how good the motion sensing hardware, or how good the game coding, the Square Cube Law means that moving our arms mean moving a lot more mass than just pressing buttons, which just moves the thumbs and fingers, or even wiggling joysticks, which involve smaller motions with the arms and wrists.

So again, no matter how good the controller or game code, there will be some lag compared to traditional controllers, and also a greater risk of repetitive motion injuries.

Now workable motion control gaming is still young (not counting non working controls of course, like Mattel's Power Glove), so this is likely something to learn from. Developers seem to be learning that you can't just swap any button press with a motion, just those that the gamer isn't likely to use as much or as rapidly. But games like Red Steel 2 show that even trying to imitate something like swordplay can't be done like actual swordplay, or even the flashy Hollywood Errol Flynn style swordplay. Plus even prop swords will be heavier than a Wiimote or Move. So only someone really practiced can move that fast in real life, and again, people aren't practiced are more likely to sprain their muscles first.

So though it seems to go against a lot of what is learned in gaming, motion control should actually slow it down. Note that in Wii Sports, Boxing requires the fastest motions, and is also noted as the least accurate and more likely to cause strain.

Or with a swordfighting game, focus on accuracy of movement, in either attacking or parrying, to win the battles. And if someone insists on flailing, do like Anthony Hopkins in The Mask of Zorro and have the opponent just knock the sword out of that knave's hand.

Any other thoughts and ideas for how to make this work?

I'm not sure I agree with much of this.  Have you ever played RE4 on the Wii?  It is MUCH faster to aim and shoot than using analog sticks.  As long as the motion controls are used to be an extension of the way you naturally do something, it should make gaming much faster.  The square cube law just doesn't apply here.  Not sure why you think it does.

Moving analog sticks with your finger to aim something is definitely NOT faster than just pointing at it naturally.  If developers start forcing things into motions, something they may have to do with Kinect, then you may have a point.


Okay, I didn't mean pointer controls, but I should have stated that earlier. I mean motion controls, not pointer controls. Those are just tilting your arms or wrists, which can still be pretty fast, as we've seen with both that and mice (since you have to move your armo or wrist to move a mouse).



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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LordTheNightKnight said:
whatever said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

What I mean is that no matter how good the motion sensing hardware, or how good the game coding, the Square Cube Law means that moving our arms mean moving a lot more mass than just pressing buttons, which just moves the thumbs and fingers, or even wiggling joysticks, which involve smaller motions with the arms and wrists.

So again, no matter how good the controller or game code, there will be some lag compared to traditional controllers, and also a greater risk of repetitive motion injuries.

Now workable motion control gaming is still young (not counting non working controls of course, like Mattel's Power Glove), so this is likely something to learn from. Developers seem to be learning that you can't just swap any button press with a motion, just those that the gamer isn't likely to use as much or as rapidly. But games like Red Steel 2 show that even trying to imitate something like swordplay can't be done like actual swordplay, or even the flashy Hollywood Errol Flynn style swordplay. Plus even prop swords will be heavier than a Wiimote or Move. So only someone really practiced can move that fast in real life, and again, people aren't practiced are more likely to sprain their muscles first.

So though it seems to go against a lot of what is learned in gaming, motion control should actually slow it down. Note that in Wii Sports, Boxing requires the fastest motions, and is also noted as the least accurate and more likely to cause strain.

Or with a swordfighting game, focus on accuracy of movement, in either attacking or parrying, to win the battles. And if someone insists on flailing, do like Anthony Hopkins in The Mask of Zorro and have the opponent just knock the sword out of that knave's hand.

Any other thoughts and ideas for how to make this work?

I'm not sure I agree with much of this.  Have you ever played RE4 on the Wii?  It is MUCH faster to aim and shoot than using analog sticks.  As long as the motion controls are used to be an extension of the way you naturally do something, it should make gaming much faster.  The square cube law just doesn't apply here.  Not sure why you think it does.

Moving analog sticks with your finger to aim something is definitely NOT faster than just pointing at it naturally.  If developers start forcing things into motions, something they may have to do with Kinect, then you may have a point.


Okay, I didn't mean pointer controls, but I should have stated that earlier. I mean motion controls, not pointer controls. Those are just tilting your arms or wrists, which can still be pretty fast, as we've seen with both that and mice (since you have to move your armo or wrist to move a mouse).

Well, except for Kinect, there are still analog sticks and buttons involved.  So at least Nintendo/Sony may not have to use longer motions to accomplish these movements.  Kinect is obviously different.  I guess we will see!



LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

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leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.


Ignoring those that like the immersion of motion controls is what I meant. Plus motion can be good.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.


Ignoring those that like the immersion of motion controls is what I meant. Plus motion can be good.


I've yet to see motion control do a single genre better than any existing form of control. Not one.



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

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leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.


Ignoring those that like the immersion of motion controls is what I meant. Plus motion can be good.


I've yet to see motion control do a single genre better than any existing form of control. Not one.


As I've mentioned, this isn't something that developers are used to. So it just means so far it hasn't worked.

So don't dismiss the entire thing just because the results aren't up to the level of something established in gaming for decades.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.


Ignoring those that like the immersion of motion controls is what I meant. Plus motion can be good.


I've yet to see motion control do a single genre better than any existing form of control. Not one.


As I've mentioned, this isn't something that developers are used to. So it just means so far it hasn't worked.

So don't dismiss the entire thing just because the results aren't up to the level of something established in gaming for decades.

How much longer do you think they will need? Another five years? Ten? Are we just supposed to accept that games will suck until developers catch up to a level of control that already exists with KB M or a gamepad?



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.


Ignoring those that like the immersion of motion controls is what I meant. Plus motion can be good.


I've yet to see motion control do a single genre better than any existing form of control. Not one.


As I've mentioned, this isn't something that developers are used to. So it just means so far it hasn't worked.

So don't dismiss the entire thing just because the results aren't up to the level of something established in gaming for decades.

How much longer do you think they will need? Another five years? Ten? Are we just supposed to accept that games will suck until developers catch up to a level of control that already exists with KB M or a gamepad?


Why don't think think it could happen sooner, especially with all three first parties now invested in their own motion tech?



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.


Ignoring those that like the immersion of motion controls is what I meant. Plus motion can be good.


I've yet to see motion control do a single genre better than any existing form of control. Not one.


As I've mentioned, this isn't something that developers are used to. So it just means so far it hasn't worked.

So don't dismiss the entire thing just because the results aren't up to the level of something established in gaming for decades.

How much longer do you think they will need? Another five years? Ten? Are we just supposed to accept that games will suck until developers catch up to a level of control that already exists with KB M or a gamepad?


Why don't think think it could happen sooner, especially with all three first parties now invested in their own motion tech?

Because the top developers aren't aboard with the controls.

No naughty dog

No insomniac

No bungie

No Kojima

No Polyphony

No respawn

No blizzard

No GSC

No valve

The list goes on. Motion controls won't evolve until good devs start to support it and that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
leatherhat said:

Why not just use standard controls. Problem solved.


Ignoring the millions of people who've shown the like motion controls IS the problem that too many developers have had. So acting like just dropping this is a solution just shows you are part of that problem.

I like good control schemes so I'm part of the problem? Interesting.


Ignoring those that like the immersion of motion controls is what I meant. Plus motion can be good.


I've yet to see motion control do a single genre better than any existing form of control. Not one.


As I've mentioned, this isn't something that developers are used to. So it just means so far it hasn't worked.

So don't dismiss the entire thing just because the results aren't up to the level of something established in gaming for decades.

How much longer do you think they will need? Another five years? Ten? Are we just supposed to accept that games will suck until developers catch up to a level of control that already exists with KB M or a gamepad?


Why don't think think it could happen sooner, especially with all three first parties now invested in their own motion tech?

Because the top developers aren't aboard with the controls.

No naughty dog

No insomniac

No bungie

No Kojima

No Polyphony

No respawn

No blizzard

No GSC

No valve

The list goes on. Motion controls won't evolve until good devs start to support it and that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.


You act like those are the only ones capable. Plus just because they are good with certain games does not mean they will be good with motion controls.

Plus buttons have been established since the beginning of gaming. You really think developers just learn buttons from scratch and are good at them anyway?

Finally, just because YOU think no control is better is NOT a counter to the millions who prefer motion controls. THAT is the dismissing I meant. You're trying to put your opinion (even if many other gamers agree) in a way to pretend the opinions of millions of other customers don't count.

The gaming industry isn't giving up motion controls just because a bunch of people like you don't like the tech.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs