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Forums - Sony - Future Playstation Products Will be Easier to Program says Yoshida

ssj12 said:
zarx said:
kowhoho said:
zarx said:
hasanwhy said:
zarx said:

So no CELL in the PS3 confirmed then, good to know.


Do you mean PS4? 


yup...

Editing now

I would hope they will at least have the CELL in the PS4 for the sake of backwards compatibility. Like they did with the PS2's Emotion chip at the start of the PS3's generation.


far to expensive as they learnt this gen, they quickly dropped that to save money, maybe there will be a premium model but I doubt it.

You don't think they will make the same stupid mistakes as they did this gen do you? They are already avoiding one in making the system developer friendly. 

They will use IBM's PowerPC 7 or 8 thats based off the CELL.


the Power 7 architecture is not based on the CELL. It is true that some elements that were first used in the CELL are used in the power 7 architecture, and the CELL uses a single power PC based core. But the Power architecture is not based on the CELL, they were developed mostly concurrently and are to different approaches to CPU design. 

The power 7 was an evolution of the Power PC line, the Cell was a different family of CPUs which is no longer in active development.

But yes a Power 7 or 8 based chip is likely to be powering the PS4.



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adsl said:
hasanwhy said:
adsl said:

Glad to hear, as a developer I know how hard and complex is to program in a multi-processor environment. Sony really need to make the next PlayStation easy to program in order to reduce the costs of the games.


I didn't know you were a developer! 

 

Although I've worked developing/researching on serious games I'm a ordinary software developer not a game developer.

But that still pretty legit, bro. Many here, including myself, can't really look at the video game industry from a developer's perspective because were just ordinary gamers who love gaming. We're just speaking straight from opinion. But I respect the opinions of a developer in a topic related to video games because what they say will most likely always make sense in that matter. They don't always root for a single camp like most gamers. 



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zarx said:
ssj12 said:
zarx said:
kowhoho said:
zarx said:
hasanwhy said:
zarx said:

So no CELL in the PS3 confirmed then, good to know.


Do you mean PS4? 


yup...

Editing now

I would hope they will at least have the CELL in the PS4 for the sake of backwards compatibility. Like they did with the PS2's Emotion chip at the start of the PS3's generation.


far to expensive as they learnt this gen, they quickly dropped that to save money, maybe there will be a premium model but I doubt it.

You don't think they will make the same stupid mistakes as they did this gen do you? They are already avoiding one in making the system developer friendly. 

They will use IBM's PowerPC 7 or 8 thats based off the CELL.


the Power 7 architecture is not based on the CELL. It is true that some elements that were first used in the CELL are used in the power 7 architecture, and the CELL uses a single power PC based core. But the Power architecture is not based on the CELL, they were developed mostly concurrently and are to different approaches to CPU design. 

The power 7 was an evolution of the Power PC line, the Cell was a different family of CPUs which is no longer in active development.

But yes a Power 7 or 8 based chip is likely to be powering the PS4.

The CELL is a power pc cpu by definition, since it's got the same instructions set. In fact the latest IBM CELL chip is the PowerXCell 8i, which is used in Blade Servers and supercomputers. Not only that, but the Cell is still actively developed ( http://www.hardwareheaven.com/news.php?newsid=344 ): when Sony says that the PS4 will be easy to develop for, that probably means that they will use Cell processors again, since now there are a lot of useful libraries and middleware which were not available four years ago.

Support Cell processors, buy a Cell based server from IBM: http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/default/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=4611686018425235305&storeId=1&catalogId=-840&langId=-1 (discount price, only $10000).



But I thought it was so that developers wouldn't take full advantage of the system right off the bat, so as to stick with the 10 year plan. Joking.

Good to know they're learning from mistakes they've made this gen. I just hope graphics for first party titles with the PS4 still stand out (Uncharted 4 ?).



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Booh! said:
zarx said:
ssj12 said:
zarx said:
kowhoho said:
zarx said:
hasanwhy said:
zarx said:

So no CELL in the PS3 confirmed then, good to know.


Do you mean PS4? 


yup...

Editing now

I would hope they will at least have the CELL in the PS4 for the sake of backwards compatibility. Like they did with the PS2's Emotion chip at the start of the PS3's generation.


far to expensive as they learnt this gen, they quickly dropped that to save money, maybe there will be a premium model but I doubt it.

You don't think they will make the same stupid mistakes as they did this gen do you? They are already avoiding one in making the system developer friendly. 

They will use IBM's PowerPC 7 or 8 thats based off the CELL.


the Power 7 architecture is not based on the CELL. It is true that some elements that were first used in the CELL are used in the power 7 architecture, and the CELL uses a single power PC based core. But the Power architecture is not based on the CELL, they were developed mostly concurrently and are to different approaches to CPU design. 

The power 7 was an evolution of the Power PC line, the Cell was a different family of CPUs which is no longer in active development.

But yes a Power 7 or 8 based chip is likely to be powering the PS4.

The CELL is a power pc cpu by definition, since it's got the same instructions set. In fact the latest IBM CELL chip is the PowerXCell 8i, which is used in Blade Servers and supercomputers. Not only that, but the Cell is still actively developed ( http://www.hardwareheaven.com/news.php?newsid=344 ): when Sony says that the PS4 will be easy to develop for, that probably means that they will use Cell processors again, since now there are a lot of useful libraries and middleware which were not available four years ago.

Support Cell processors, buy a Cell based server from IBM: http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/default/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=4611686018425235305&storeId=1&catalogId=-840&langId=-1 (discount price, only $10000).

hmm must have missed that they are still developing it, but the PowerXCell is still nearly 2 years old now, but I guess for IBM that's not to bad. I guess a CELL based CPU isn't out of the question then but I still think that there are better choices. And if SONY actually put a lot of effort into their dev kits this time round that would constitute making the PS4 more developer friendly.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Around the Network
hasanwhy said:
adsl said:
hasanwhy said:
adsl said:

Glad to hear, as a developer I know how hard and complex is to program in a multi-processor environment. Sony really need to make the next PlayStation easy to program in order to reduce the costs of the games.


I didn't know you were a developer! 

 

Although I've worked developing/researching on serious games I'm a ordinary software developer not a game developer.

But that still pretty legit, bro. Many here, including myself, can't really look at the video game industry from a developer's perspective because were just ordinary gamers who love gaming. We're just speaking straight from opinion. But I respect the opinions of a developer in a topic related to video games because what they say will most likely always make sense in that matter. They don't always root for a single camp like most gamers. 


Thanks...  Sometimes is fun to hear the people saying thinks like: The camera of the A console is better than the camera of the B console because it has a better resolution or wherever... But as an Artificial Intelligence researcher I know  that most of the games don't need HD images to track our bodies motion and usually they convert the images to a gray scale (or even black and white) in order to simplify and speed-up the motion tracking this is important to avoid or decrease lags.



I think they'd be smartest to actually stick with a Cell processor and add a video card that's a little more beefy...call it done...because if they change it now, I wonder if backwards compatibility will be possible...so we have another BC debacle



Just waiting for that PS Vita to come out so I can play some full featured games on the go with that beautiful screen and control scheme...

zarx said:
Booh! said:
zarx said:
ssj12 said:
zarx said:
kowhoho said:
zarx said:
hasanwhy said:
zarx said:

So no CELL in the PS3 confirmed then, good to know.


Do you mean PS4? 


yup...

Editing now

I would hope they will at least have the CELL in the PS4 for the sake of backwards compatibility. Like they did with the PS2's Emotion chip at the start of the PS3's generation.


far to expensive as they learnt this gen, they quickly dropped that to save money, maybe there will be a premium model but I doubt it.

You don't think they will make the same stupid mistakes as they did this gen do you? They are already avoiding one in making the system developer friendly. 

They will use IBM's PowerPC 7 or 8 thats based off the CELL.


the Power 7 architecture is not based on the CELL. It is true that some elements that were first used in the CELL are used in the power 7 architecture, and the CELL uses a single power PC based core. But the Power architecture is not based on the CELL, they were developed mostly concurrently and are to different approaches to CPU design. 

The power 7 was an evolution of the Power PC line, the Cell was a different family of CPUs which is no longer in active development.

But yes a Power 7 or 8 based chip is likely to be powering the PS4.

The CELL is a power pc cpu by definition, since it's got the same instructions set. In fact the latest IBM CELL chip is the PowerXCell 8i, which is used in Blade Servers and supercomputers. Not only that, but the Cell is still actively developed ( http://www.hardwareheaven.com/news.php?newsid=344 ): when Sony says that the PS4 will be easy to develop for, that probably means that they will use Cell processors again, since now there are a lot of useful libraries and middleware which were not available four years ago.

Support Cell processors, buy a Cell based server from IBM: http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/default/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=4611686018425235305&storeId=1&catalogId=-840&langId=-1 (discount price, only $10000).

hmm must have missed that they are still developing it, but the PowerXCell is still nearly 2 years old now, but I guess for IBM that's not to bad. I guess a CELL based CPU isn't out of the question then but I still think that there are better choices. And if SONY actually put a lot of effort into their dev kits this time round that would constitute making the PS4 more developer friendly.

If they stick with a similar CPU/GPU sertup instead of changing the entire thing like they did with the PS1, PS2, and PS3 then development will be a lot easier since devs would know the basics for programming the machine to run their games. It wouldn't matter if the PS4 is running the PowerPC8 (looked it up, this PPC is most similar to the CELL) since it would be the CELL plus more cores/spes. Plus a stronger GPU with more ram (2Gbs at minimum hopefully).

With this setup they could easily run PS3 titles, PS1 titles, PS2 might get software bc maybe, and devs shouldn't have much room to complain about development difficulty since they would have experience from the PS3's CELL RSX setup.



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ssj12 said:

If they stick with a similar CPU/GPU sertup instead of changing the entire thing like they did with the PS1, PS2, and PS3 then development will be a lot easier since devs would know the basics for programming the machine to run their games. It wouldn't matter if the PS4 is running the PowerPC8 (looked it up, this PPC is most similar to the CELL) since it would be the CELL plus more cores/spes. Plus a stronger GPU with more ram (2Gbs at minimum hopefully).

With this setup they could easily run PS3 titles, PS1 titles, PS2 might get software bc maybe, and devs shouldn't have much room to complain about development difficulty since they would have experience from the PS3's CELL RSX setup.

I suppose by PowerPC8 you mean the PowerXCell 8i. The problem with that is that it's pretty much the same chip that is in the PS3 just higher clocked and without a disabled SPE. using that design wouldn't lead to more than a 10-20% performance increase. If SONY were to use the CELL architecture again, at the very least they would need to commission a custom chip to get a worth while performance increase. Like the cancelled 2 PPE and 32 SPE CELL, at 32nm or less it should be possible. I would love to see the folding@home numbers for that...



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Some have said already, but it seems that people ignore it. Familiarity doesn't translate to easiness.